How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?

[Poliwhirl42]

I'm curious to know your opinion on how BF reflected its predecessor series, BESIDES the obvious dub change, replacement of Misty with May, Max, and Hoenn characters, and the introduction of contests to Kanto. Personally, I don't think BF gave off the same essence that Kanto had in the original series- and that's not just for the "nostalgia factor." I didn't like how they created even more towns and cities that we'd never even heard of before this, without really referencing the other anime- and game- exclusive locations that were introduced in the first season. I was sort of disappointed when Ash and Brock failed to relive their scary memories in Lavender Town, or went back to visit any of the old gym leaders. Although I enjoyed many episodes of BF, I just didn't get that "Kanto" feeling again. I still felt more of the "Hoenn" vibe, even with it being an entirely different region.

What do you think?

 

[Hidden Mew]

Moved to the main section since it doesn't seem much like a debate topic.

 

[IcyNinjaX]

The only major difference between the two is CONTESTS!. The Original Kanto didn't introduce Contests while Battle Frontier, they did. Other than that, they are both the same.

 

[Caseydia]

How do I compare? I really can't because there is some much that didn't happen in Kanto than in BF. For example, no gymleaders. Instead there were brainleaders. And I don't care what they say about brainleaders being weak. They were definetly tougher than the gymleaders. Especially Brandon. He had the Regis for Godsakes!

Then there's contests and May and Max still present. Misty was there yes but for only two episodes. I really can't see the comparison back then.

 

[Sith Droideka]

Very well, I shall compare (I will not contrast).

Both featured Ash and Pikachu prominently.
Brock was in both.
There were eggs.
They were both advertisements.
Both featured female characters prominently.
Both featured Delia and Oak.
Both are Japanese animation.
Both were made before Barrack Obama was POTUS.
Both had male rivals.
Both had Brock fall in love at the drop of a hat.
Both featured characters with "M" as the first letter in their name (unless you're not watching it in English. In which case, both can be found not in English!)
Both featured Team Rocket but no plot conclusion.
They both featured Pokémon.

BONUS
Contrast: One was made while Bill Clinton was POTUS, one while Bush was.
Drew was more interesting than Gary and battled May more.
May developed more as a character.
Max was there.
No gyms, only brains and contests.
Harley was better than Gary and battled May more.
Misty only had Togepi in one of these.
Eggs didn't possess souls and consume personalities.

 

[vulpix]

The anime had evolved a lot by that point.
They didn't revert back to the original style because it wouldn't fit anymore.

Anyway... alot of the anime (iirc) didn't take place in the "Kanto Specific" areas that the original had. The only overlap I can distinctly recall is pallet town.

 

[Cybersai]

BF wasn't trying to be like Kanto, it was just Hoenn extended by another year and set in Kanto because of FR/LG.

Of course the dub change at the time made it feel even more different but that's for another topic entirely.

 

[Charbok]

The only reason Battle Frontier existed and took place in Kanto was to promote the Red and Blue remakes, and the Battle Frontier in Emerald. Other than that, this arc could have still took place in Hoenn and it really wouldn't have made much of a difference. Battle Frontier wasn't trying to or supposed to be like the original series just because they went back to the Kanto region.

 

[Master Cyrus]

It made me wonder since OS and BF took place within only a few months of one another why Ash didn't know about the frontier brains beforehand. Especially tucker.

 

[Poliwhirl42]

The only major difference between the two is CONTESTS!. The Original Kanto didn't introduce Contests while Battle Frontier, they did. Other than that, they are both the same.

In the first post I said *besides* the obvious continuation of Contests...

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Both series are so much different from each other to the point that they are almost incomparable.
But ok ill do my best with this:

Kanto was much more focused on development of interactions between humans ad promotion of friendship resulting in more memorable dynamic between main characters. Whole saga was consumed with sheer wackiness, slapstick humor and many hit or miss situations with writing being probably at peek of unpredictability and creativity. Since it followed games infinitely less, with writers adding more of their flavor into storytelling.

On other hand Battle Frontier was more focused on game promotion with battles being of much higher quality for understandable reasons, there was more character development(especially in Ash and May case, and to smaller extent Brock) and Jessie was doing contests with TR being given something more to do than usual chase of Pikachu.

However that's where positive things stop, with Battle Frontier in comparison to first saga hardly feeling like Kanto at all with towns, places and characters looking like they are from completely different region staying faithful to Kanto only by its name. Aside from Misty very brief visit(they didn't even visit Cerulean) and return of some Kanto pokemon, everything felt like it was extracted from some weird alternate universe, not resembling Ash hometown region by any margin.

There were no references to gym leaders and most towns Ash originally traveled through, there were no older characters he met on travels(heck even Jessibelle was saved for DP instead of actually reappearing in hometown saga) being treated basically like completely different saga.

Dynamic between AG cast started to lose their steam and original appeal they had too, and several battles were utterly unrealistic and poorly written. Battles against Frontier Brains Tucker and Lucy, as well May contest battles against Brock and Ogata come to mind.

In nutshell return to Kanto in Battle Frontier didn't felt like Kanto at all and could pass of like completely different region, barring few minor things.

Eggs didn't possess souls and consume personalities.

I must have missed it, because when watching Kanto i didn't noticed any "demonic eggs jumping around and sucking souls from others". In fact all main characters were highly entertaining there.

 

[Peachy]

I mean, the only comparable thing is that they both take place in Kanto. Ash and the anime had evolved by this point. Ash had a different goal at this point.

 

[CrackFox]

Kanto the second time round was definitely different. No matter what, I'll never like another series as much as I did Kanto and not just because of the nostalgia either. It was just a lot funnier back then. I didn't enjoy BF at all really. I do really like May and Max and I enjoyed Hoenn a lot but the contests were pretty boring in BF and the new voices really put me off.

 

[Caseydia]

Kanto the second time round was definitely different. No matter what, I'll never like another series as much as I did Kanto and not just because of the nostalgia either. It was just a lot funnier back then. I didn't enjoy BF at all really. I do really like May and Max and I enjoyed Hoenn a lot but the contests were pretty boring in BF and the new voices really put me off.

I agree with this. This is why if they were to do another mini thing going through Kanto again, it won't be the same. It won't feel the same because things have changed from Kanto to BF.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Kanto the second time round was definitely different. No matter what, I'll never like another series as much as I did Kanto and not just because of the nostalgia either. It was just a lot funnier back then. I didn't enjoy BF at all really. I do really like May and Max and I enjoyed Hoenn a lot but the contests were pretty boring in BF and the new voices really put me off.

Agreed. On large part reason why its impossible to duplicate same kind of chemistry and humor Kanto contained is also because we had different cast at that point with May and Max personalities mixing different with Ash or Brock's than Misty did, because style of writing chained on big part with some writers like mr. Shudo not doing construction anymore and because series became more oriented on advertizing.

I forgot on change of Vas too, but that was definitely another minus for me taking away from quality during Battle Frontier, since they were pretty bad at start.

Only highlights BF had to me were when May advanced in GF, some frontier brain battles( such as Charizard vs Articuno), and abit more focus Brock received battling May, defending Pewter gym with Ash against TR, having Mudkip evolve etc.

Otherwise it lacked comedy, interactions weren't so colorful like they were with original trio and side stories were on large part pretty formulaic. Not to mention some awful filler episodes like one about giant Caterpie.

I expected we would see some familiar faces during revisit to Kanto like AJ, Giselle, Sabrina, revisit of some of gyms and towns , Misty getting some bigger role than brief Pallet reunion(i remember people speculating about joining cast for awhile) as well some of older pokemon being referenced or revisited(like Primeap). But nothing of that happened, with Battle Frontier feeling anything but like Ash journey through Kanto again.

 

[Winterdaze]

To be honest, there were times in BF where I forgot it was set in Kanto. Like all the time. Most of the places the characters travelled to were anime exclusive, and there was very little call back to any past events from Ash's last journey there.
However, I think this ultimately worked in BF's favour. It was a continuation of the AG groups story in Hoenn that just happened to be set in Kanto for advertisement reasons, so I don't think there was any point in trying to emulate the tone of the original series.

 

[The Master]

comparable with original kanto series NO, do i like it better HELL TO THE YES

 

[Master Cyrus]

OS could screw the rules
BF cant.

OS is better

 

[Cybersai]

I think this is the whole reason they didn't bother to make a Johto BF arc. Johto would be unrecognizable with no familiar locations revisited and there would be no point.

Plus the writers probably didn't want Ash to challenge more Frontier Brains anyway.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think this is the whole reason they didn't bother to make a Johto BF arc. Johto would be unrecognizable with no familiar locations revisited and there would be no point.

Plus the writers probably didn't want Ash to challenge more Frontier Brains anyway.

I don't think that was the reason. I think it had more to do with how they didn't really have time to go through a Johto Battle Frontier arc. By the time they finished the Sinnoh League, they were getting ready for BW. It's also quite possible that the writers planned on sticking in Sinnoh for the entire DP series from the start, so unlike with AG, they didn't make room for a second arc for DP. Being unrecognizable wasn't really much of a problem with Kanto, or at least I don't believe I've heard anything about that being a problem with the target audience for the seires, so I don't think that would have been a problem with Johto if they did have the time to spend another arc there. I'm not sure if they didn't want Ash to challenge more Frontier Brains since I don't see why that would be a problem. Even if the prize was the same, he'd still go for it, if only for the shake of getting stronger, battling tougher opponents and raising more Pokemon.

It's been a long time since I saw the Battle Frontier arc, but I do remember how it felt like an extended Hoenn to me as well. Personally, I don't think that was a problem. Most of the kids who were watching AG at the time most likely weren't that familiar with the Kanto saga in the original series, so it was probably a better choice to go with mostly new areas in Kanto instead of revisiting a lot of different places that could confuse the target audience. Plus, aside from seeing Sabrina when they were in Saffron City and maybe running into Mewtwo for a special as some kind of promotion for FR/LG, I wasn't really expecting much revisiting of older characters anyway.