How do you feel about Ash's friends challenging Gym leaders?

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Cybersai

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First we had Dawn challenge Maylene in DP, and now Cilan battling Skyla in BW.

I remember back in DP, everyone was acting like it was some, "shocking event" that Dawn was battling a Gym leader. It was like "some sort of big deal or revelation" that we were seeing something we didn't ordinarily see. I am not sure why people made a big deal out of it as they did, because Dawn was only battling Maylene to get her confidence back up. I guess this was the "early DP" era, where every single thing Dawn did people acted like they were amazed by it before the initial hype of the character wore off.

Now in BW, Cilan is challenging Skyla. While he will probably lose, he has his own reasons to be battling.

How do you feel about this? Would it have been something you wanted to see all along?
 
I find that to be original and interesting concept.I enjoyed when Dawn was battling Maylene showing how she is capable of doing well in training battles,and not only contests.And even though she lost with Lucario being too much for her to handle at that time,her character served its purpose helping Maylene to build up confidence and become more sure in her abilities as trainer after being staggered by Paul and harsh defeat.

Im looking forward to Cilan apparently going to challenge Skyla as well.
It is certainly nice and fresh for a change to see other traveling companions sometimes being put in role of challenger despite not pursuing same goal as trainer who are attempting to enter league do.There is more than one way to battle gym leaders,and this not only allow other characters to test their abilities in battle but it also creates potential to influence main storyline by helping gym leader to overcome possible issues.

Definitely brings unpredictability and shows how Ash isnt the only one who earns right to challenge gyms.

p.s.Technically Misty was first Ash companion which challenged gym.That is if Dorian and unofficial gym counts.
 
There's also the fact that Cilan himself is a Gym Leader, so it's an even more novel concept. =)
 
I liked Sumomo vs. Hikari because it made sense in the story. Sumomo needed someone to lift her spirits up and basically around % 15,39 of Hikari's character trait was how she managed to lift everyone spirits up, in some manner.

As Fuuro there will likely be a reason for Dent to fight her and chances are we will be getting Iris vs. Shaga.

How I feel about this situation? Well, it depends on whether or not the character is getting his/her own battles frequently AND whether or not Gym Battle has some bearing on the story of the arc/he episodes following it. I wouldn't want to see any of Satoshi's companions to have Gym Battle "for teh lulz" unless they barely get any battle otherwise or the said battle is pretty fun to watch.

Dent, while has an antagonistic rival, the said rival's main gimmick is her lack of competence(to the point of her Pokémon being just evolved forms of early critters, and his proffession is a non-battling one, while he is getting some battle time in this few recent episodes, they are still pretty small compared to Satoshi's. So I am OK with it.
 
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I liked Dawn vs. Maylene, but C***n vs Skyla is a lie unless Crustle loses. The match can end in a tie or a win for C***n, but Crustle must lose in order to cause it to develop further/not be a Gary Stu/Mary Sue.
 
It could work if it's Crustle vs Swanna. It would take some pret-ty stretchy writing to pull off Crustle beating a Pokemon that has advantages over both its types, so let's hope that's not what the writers are hoping for.
 
Trainer Yusuf said:
and his proffession is a non-battling one
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I'd say that being a gym leader is quite battle intensive ._.'
And if you meant sommelier, it's apparent that the best sommeliers are aware of battle techniques and sharpen their skills with more battling experience, to put their skills to practical use.

I don't really mind it that much, but there's a reason why Ash is the only badge collecting member on the main group. So long as the intentions are in the right and it doesn't happen often, I don't see it as much of a problem.
 
Honestly, I really like seeing other characters, not just Satoshi's friends but his rivals also, challenge Gym leaders. That's really something that I thought was good about DP and BW that past series should have done. In DP, we had Shinji taking on the first gym and Hikari taking on the third, and both episodes where great. I liked seeing Bel battle Elesa as it really sparked a change in her character. It's good to see the gym leaders also interacting with different characters showing off a different side often.

So yeah, the three times one of Satoshi's friends/rivals challenged a gym were really good episodes so I can't wait to see if Dent's episode will be just as good as Shinji, Hikari and Bel's were.
 
I like it, because (to be honest here)... sometimes Ash isn't that interesting. And his Unova gym battles have pretty much all been snoozefests, except for the Striaton City battle... which was boosted because (surprise surprise) Cilan was an active participant.

It's nice to have a change of pace every once in a while. And hey, nobody ever anticipates the traveling companions doing gym battles, so at the very least it gives us a surprise.
 
Muk-a-matic said:
I liked Dawn vs. Maylene, but C***n vs Skyla is a lie unless Crustle loses. The match can end in a tie or a win for C***n, but Crustle must lose in order to cause it to develop further/not be a Gary Stu/Mary Sue.
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Why do you always have so much hate for Crustle?

Anyways, I think the concept is great, if nothing else we get to see the gym leader bettling more than once without Ash having to lose
 
Because Crustle has never lost, and the battle w/Skyla is the perfect opportunity for Crustle to not stay a Gary Stu/Mary Sue/Unbeaten!
 
I typically enjoy the non-Satoshi vs. gym leaders (or in the case of Shinji, frontier brains and champions :3) episodes more than I would enjoy a generic Satoshi gym battle anyway.

And we all know Dent vs. Fuuro will be the best episode because planes vs. trains
 
There is nothing wrong with any of Ash's friends challenging gymleaders. And who said he was the only one allowed to battle them anyway? The world doesn't revolve around him all the time. Besides, most of the time it doesn't really mean much because they aren't collecting badges. Maybe just comparing strength. Which is not such a bad thing.
 
It depends on the context of each match and which characters are selected to battle these gym leaders. For those rival characters who we don't see very often in the anime, the on-screen battles against the gym leaders provide their pokemon with development and screentime.

I liked the first three instances where other major characters were battling gym leaders, because those characters had a lot of kinks to work out with the pokemon that they have been using. In the case of Paul VS Roark, we got to see a little more of Chimchar and Elekid, which were arguably the two most important pokemon that Paul was seen using at the time. Although Chimchar's Blaze activating here contradicted what has happened with the pokemon's ability in the future, it was nice to see Paul struggle against a gym leader and forced to use pokemon with type disadvantages.

In the case of Dawn VS Maylene, we got to see Buneary battle a major opponent for the first time. This was something that Dawn had planned to do in the Hearthome Contest if she made it past the appeal round (alongside her Buizel), but she failed to do so and Buneary never got the opportunity to battle in that contest. Dawn was also getting used to battling alongside the Ambipom that she obtained recently. We were also at the point in DP when the writers didn't force Piplup on us, and it was obvious back then that Piplup was her signature pokemon.

In the case of Bianca VS Elesa, this entire match was to compensate for her lack of battling screentime during the Club Battle tournament. Her Pignite, especially, had not been used in a major battle in over twenty episodes. Bianca's loss against Elesa was realistic, because she had obtained her two other pokemon recently and had not used them often in battle. Pignite really was the only pokemon Bianca had that lasted more than a few seconds against Zebstrika and actually inflicted damage against it, which is understandable since he singlehandedly won two gym battles for Bianca in the past. This episode showed that Bianca had potential to become stronger, but she was terribly inexperienced as a battler and as a trainer at this point.

On the other hand, Cilan's inevitable battle against Skyla is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Unlike the three other characters, whose teams of pokemon were not seen very often, I have seen Cilan use all three of his pokemon to the point of wishing that they would just disappear for a while. We have seen Pansage used to battle against Chili's Pansear in BW058, as well as Tornadus, Thundurus, and Siliglyph in recent episodes. Similarly, we have seen Cilan use his Stunfisk in the same episodes. Meanwhile, his "newly-evolved" Crustle had battled Bianca and Professor Juniper's pokemon only two episodes ago.

There is absolutely nothing new or exciting that Cilan or his pokemon will bring to this battle, since we have seen the strategies and attacks that these pokemon typically use so often in such a short period of time. I won't be surprised if we see Crustle use his Shell Smash-Rock Wrecker combination attack in this match, too. Furthermore, Cilan doesn't appear to have a "disadvantage" in this battle, considering that he is a Gym Leader with battle experience as well as having a team of pokemon that can fare well against flying-types. The writers seem to be forcing Cilan to do anything and everything so that he can be important in episodes where he should stay on the sidelines.

The only benefit of seeing Cilan battle Skyla here is that the gym leader will appear in an additional episode. That is all.
 
I definitely enjoy it. I loved the Maylene episodes. It was unusual at the time, and made me appreciate Dawn as a character more. Same thing with this series, I was happy to see Bianca battle. It's nice to see a change and see the gym leaders battle different people, because I like episodes that develop their personality. Seeing one of Ash's friends battle one of them, you get to see different sides of the gym leader. It definitely keeps the show fresh by seeing new characters, other than Ash, battle the gym leaders.
 
Ampharos King said:
It depends on the context of each match and which characters are selected to battle these gym leaders. For those rival characters who we don't see very often in the anime, the on-screen battles against the gym leaders provide their pokemon with development and screentime.

I liked the first three instances where other major characters were battling gym leaders, because those characters had a lot of kinks to work out with the pokemon that they have been using. In the case of Paul VS Roark, we got to see a little more of Chimchar and Elekid, which were arguably the two most important pokemon that Paul was seen using at the time. Although Chimchar's Blaze activating here contradicted what has happened with the pokemon's ability in the future, it was nice to see Paul struggle against a gym leader and forced to use pokemon with type disadvantages.

In the case of Dawn VS Maylene, we got to see Buneary battle a major opponent for the first time. This was something that Dawn had planned to do in the Hearthome Contest if she made it past the appeal round (alongside her Buizel), but she failed to do so and Buneary never got the opportunity to battle in that contest. Dawn was also getting used to battling alongside the Ambipom that she obtained recently. We were also at the point in DP when the writers didn't force Piplup on us, and it was obvious back then that Piplup was her signature pokemon.

In the case of Bianca VS Elesa, this entire match was to compensate for her lack of battling screentime during the Club Battle tournament. Her Pignite, especially, had not been used in a major battle in over twenty episodes. Bianca's loss against Elesa was realistic, because she had obtained her two other pokemon recently and had not used them often in battle. Pignite really was the only pokemon Bianca had that lasted more than a few seconds against Zebstrika and actually inflicted damage against it, which is understandable since he singlehandedly won two gym battles for Bianca in the past. This episode showed that Bianca had potential to become stronger, but she was terribly inexperienced as a battler and as a trainer at this point.

On the other hand, Cilan's inevitable battle against Skyla is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Unlike the three other characters, whose teams of pokemon were not seen very often, I have seen Cilan use all three of his pokemon to the point of wishing that they would just disappear for a while. We have seen Pansage used to battle against Chili's Pansear in BW058, as well as Tornadus, Thundurus, and Siliglyph in recent episodes. Similarly, we have seen Cilan use his Stunfisk in the same episodes. Meanwhile, his "newly-evolved" Crustle had battled Bianca and Professor Juniper's pokemon only two episodes ago.

There is absolutely nothing new or exciting that Cilan or his pokemon will bring to this battle, since we have seen the strategies and attacks that these pokemon typically use so often in such a short period of time. I won't be surprised if we see Crustle use his Shell Smash-Rock Wrecker combination attack in this match, too. Furthermore, Cilan doesn't appear to have a "disadvantage" in this battle, considering that he is a Gym Leader with battle experience as well as having a team of pokemon that can fare well against flying-types. The writers seem to be forcing Cilan to do anything and everything so that he can be important in episodes where he should stay on the sidelines.

The only benefit of seeing Cilan battle Skyla here is that the gym leader will appear in an additional episode. That is all.
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How can you say everyone else has reasons for battling a gymleader, and Cilan doesn't? Cilan has been battling and training like crazy. It's not like he's just sitting on his buns waiting for something to happen. There could have been plenty of times where Brock could have battling certain gymleaders even though he was in love with some of them. And let's not forget May who did challenge Wattson. So let's not hate on Cilan just because of his Pokemon who seems to be stronger than all of Ash's combined but why don't we just wait. There might be a back story between the two leaders.
 
I like it because its fresh and interesting seeing other characters challenge Gym Leaders. Wish that it happened a whole lot more often to be honest.

In the case of Cilian it will be a first to see a Gym Leader face another Gym Leader for a badge. Oh, and why hasn't anyone mentioned Gary Oak vs Giovanni? XD
 
Caseydia said:
How can you say everyone else has reasons for battling a gymleader, and Cilan doesn't? Cilan has been battling and training like crazy. It's not like he's just sitting on his buns waiting for something to happen.
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Yes, and that is my problem with all of this. Cilan is seen battling too much in situations where he should be sitting on the sidelines. We may not know the entire plotline of this particular episode yet, but right now Cilan's battle against this gym leader seems to be something that the writers are just forcing out to keep the character occupied for an episode.

Unlike the previous cases where main/recurring characters were battling gym leaders on-screen, the writers have not provided Cilan with enough justification that he should be challenging this particular character. Paul and Bianca needed to battle against gym leaders in order to win the badges so they could compete in their regional tournaments. Dawn felt like she needed to get over her previous defeats in contests, and decided to help out another trainer who was also on a losing streak. At the same time, she had also applied the battling skills that she had honed her pokemon explicitly to gain an edge in the battling rounds of pokemon contests. This was something that the character had not been able to do in two of her previous contests prior to this battle. All three of these characters were developed from the bottom up in various stages over an extended period of time. Their interactions with these gym leaders didn't appear to be forced.

On the other hand, Cilan's "reason" for battling this gym leader could very well be something that the writers will pull out just for this episode.

Furthermore, the writers rewarded the viewers for derailing the plotline slightly to focus on the less important characters by showing off their pokemon in ways that they were never seen before. In Dawn's case, she was seen using a pokemon that had never officially battled a major opponent singlehandedly prior to this match, as well as an evolved pokemon she had recently obtained that had plenty of experience in battle. Paul and Bianca also had the members on their teams receive screentime as well. Since these characters hardly appear in the anime, much less actually compete in battles in the episodes that they do appear in, it was a treat to see them compete against these gym leaders.

All three of Cilan's pokemon, however, have been used very often in a short period of time. His Pansage has been used at least three times against wild pokemon and twice in official battles under the span of ten episodes. His Crustle was used very recently in a major battle after it evolved, in addition to the multitude of battles that it had received as a Dwebble. His Stunfisk had also been used several times against wild pokemon. We have seen what Cilan and his team of pokemon are capable of, and more likely than not, they will use the same strategies during this match that they had been shown to use in previous episodes.

With that said, are Cilan's goals as a connoisseur directly linked with how well he fares in this battle? Cilan appears to be an adept and flexible battler without having to resort to battle gym leaders. What will he gain both as a person and as a trainer by voluntarily deciding to battle a gym leader when he had not done this when he encountered gym leaders in previous locations? What is so different and exceptional about this particular gym leader that makes Cilan want to challenge her for a badge?

Since these questions cannot be immediately answered, it is safe to assume that Cilan's battle against Skyla was created for the sole purpose of keeping the character occupied in a situation where he should be sitting on the sidelines.

Caseydia said:
let's not forget May who did challenge Wattson.
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May didn't challenge the gym leader back in Hoenn. She battled the gym leader's assistant during that episode, and it was justified in that her Skitty needed a training partner for the contest that it participated in a few episodes later. Unlike Cilan, May had an objective at hand when she battled that opponent. It wasn't something that the writers had forced out just because May happened to be Ash's "co-star" at the time.
 
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Would have been interesting if Misty got to battle another Water Gym leader, but she never met Juan, Wallace or Wake, so that won't be happening.

To be honest I am disappointed we never had a May Vs. Norman match. When AG first started Norman thought May was going to do Gyms, she even got a badge case from him! I wonder why they never addressed the fact that Norman didn't seem to say anything about her switch to Contests. Would have been fun to see Combusken Vs. Vigoroth or something.
 
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