How should I raise these Pokemon for competition?

[Simba]

faucin recently gave me a handful of competitive breeding rejects of his (for free), just to use against Uber Noob and Mega Noob Passersby who challenge me while I'm playing the main game (I'm only just heading to Cyllage City).

I know what to do with two of them, but I really don't know how to build the rest, and if you have the time or find this kind of thing fun, I was hoping you might give me some advice. So this isn't an RMT, they're probably not even in a proper metagame class (though it might be, I don't know enough about competitive battling to recognize either way), this is more a "help me build my team" topic, but I already have the Pokemon.

Anyway, here's two of the Pokemon he gave me that I know precisely what to do with.

Fire Trapper Y
6IV Charizard @ Mega Charizardite Y
Ability: Solar Power / Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Fire Spin
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Dragon Pulse

Use Fire Spin to trap, Drought will boost its damage to 1/8 HP per turn, use one of the attack Moves as the opponent's Type indicates. Simple.

Leech Tree
5IV Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: ???
Adamant Nature
- Will-o-Wisp
- Ingrain
- Leech Seed
- Phantom Force

Inflict a Burn, Ingrain, rely on Harvesting the Sitrus Berry to help to this point, Leech Seed, then use Phantom Force not for inflicting damage, but to waste turns while everything else slowly saps at the enemy. Obviously, I'd save this guy for late in the battle, after anyone who could potentially OHKO him is taken care of.

I don't really know how to set up Trevenant's EVs, though. I actually don't want Speed. If he has low Speed and the opponent switches out while he's in the middle of a Phantom Force, they'll lose two turns (the switch out and the trying to hit before Phantom Force activates on my second turn). So that's out. There's no use in boosting Attack, since PF isn't meant to damage, but to stall.

So what combination of HP, Def and/or SDef should I go with? 252/252/4? 252/128/128? And which EVs for which Stat?

Here's the Pokemon I don't know what to do with at all. Only one already has a full Moveset, the rest have normal Starting moves for their species.

• Sassy Shell Armor Lapras which knows Dragon Dance, Dragon Pulse, Freeze Dry and Ancient Power
• Jolly Moldbreaker Axew
• Adamant Moldbreaker Drillbur (<- I presumably want Rapid Spin and Earthquake, but otherwise, no idea)
• Jolly Unburden Treecko (<- absolutely no idea what to do with this fella)

I also have a Bold Levitate Koffing with Toxic Spikes from Dolce.

The above are, I believe, all 4IV Pokemon. One or two might be 5IV. But this isn't a hardcore competitive team, just to deal with random Uber Noobs and Mega Noobs, so the precise IVs don't matter.

Any help would be mucho appreciado.

EDIT: I'm just gonna go with the BW Uber build for Excadrill. No idea what to do with Treecko or Lapras, though, since there's no decent Move Tutors in XY yet. *fingers crossed for Z* And with Dragon nerfed, not sure what to do with Axew, either.

 

[sharkshocker]

- Drought does not increase Fire Spin's damage. Also all of Charizard's moves are special attacks so raise Special Attack.
- I'd suggest going Horn Leech/Will-o-wisp/Leech Seed/Shadow Claw for Trevenant. Horn Leech will give you recovery without having to rely on staying in, unlike Ingrain. Phantom Force might seem appealing but if they're running something that can set up (i.e. Swords Dance, Shell Smash, etc.) you're giving them a free turn to do that. Since the burn will help you against physical attacks I'd say go 252 HP/252 Sp. Def/6 Def.

I'll try to give tips for the other ones you mentioned.
- Dragon Dance doesn't work with the rest of Lapras' moves since they're all special attacks and the Sassy nature gives it a bit of speed reduction. You can try running a bulky set (focused on HP) or if you want to use it for attacking I'd suggest a Life Orb set.
- you can run a basic Dragon Dance or Swords Dance set for Haxorus.
- try using Weakness Policy on Sceptile and switch it on a super-effective move that it can survive.

Sorry I'm a bit sleepy so I can't research individual movesets right now, I'll try to get back or someone can offer more advice.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Sceptile @ Focus Sash/White Herb
Unburden
Naive/Naughty
252 Atk/4 Sp Atk/252 Speed
~Swords Dance
~Leaf Storm
~Acrobatics
~Drain Punch/Rock Slide/Earthquake/Focus Blast

Charizard should be running Fire Blast, Air Slash, Solar Beam, Focus Blast/Earthquake/Roost

252 hp/4 Atk/252 Sp Def, Horn Leech over Ingrain, Substitute/Shadow Claw over Phantom Force, +Sp Def nature over Adamant on Trevenant

 

[Simba]

- Drought does not increase Fire Spin's damage. Also all of Charizard's moves are special attacks so raise Special Attack.

Whoops! Typo'd, I meant Special Attack for Char.

But according to this, Fire Spin is indeed buffed to 1/8. It actually doesn't say it's from Drought, I just assumed so, but nobody corrected him in that post, and that's Smogon, so somebody probably would have if it weren't correct.

- I'd suggest going Horn Leech/Will-o-wisp/Leech Seed/Shadow Claw for Trevenant. Horn Leech will give you recovery without having to rely on staying in, unlike Ingrain. Phantom Force might seem appealing but if they're running something that can set up (i.e. Swords Dance, Shell Smash, etc.) you're giving them a free turn to do that.

Well, remember, this team is for random battles with Passersby. Most of them are just Uber Noobs and Mega Noobs; using powerful (and now, Mega Evolved) Pokemon, but without any understanding of strategy at all. I highly doubt I'll be seeing Shell Smash or anything. Plus, although the competitive community considers Phantom Force controversial, I've heard colloquial accounts of it doing well. I'll take your advice into consideration in case my Trevenant seems to be doing poorly, though. Thanks.

Since the burn will help you against physical attacks I'd say go 252 HP/252 Sp. Def/6 Def.

6 Def is no different from 4 Def, only every four EVs count. Good point about Burn, I'll go with that EV spread.

I'll try to give tips for the other ones you mentioned.
- Dragon Dance doesn't work with the rest of Lapras' moves since they're all special attacks and the Sassy nature gives it a bit of speed reduction. You can try running a bulky set (focused on HP) or if you want to use it for attacking I'd suggest a Life Orb set.

I'm just now at the second Gym. Gonna be a long while before I get any Life Orbs, heh. Guess I'll go bulky. Any suggestions on EV spread? Since Lapras has faily even SDef and Def, and since Water-effective coverage moves are pretty evenly split between Physical (Thunder Punch, Earthquake) and Special (Hidden Power, Thunderbolt), I'm thinking 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef.

- you can run a basic Dragon Dance or Swords Dance set for Haxorus.

But what attacking Moves? I encounter a LOT of Fairy Types in random online battles.

Sorry I'm a bit sleepy so I can't research individual movesets right now, I'll try to get back or someone can offer more advice.

No prob -- you've helped a lot already ^_^

Sceptile @ Focus Sash/White Herb
Unburden
Naive/Naughty
252 Atk/4 Sp Atk/252 Speed
~Swords Dance
~Leaf Storm
~Acrobatics
~Drain Punch/Rock Slide/Earthquake/Focus Blast

Charizard should be running Fire Blast, Air Slash, Solar Beam, Focus Blast/Earthquake/Roost

252 hp/4 Atk/252 Sp Def, Horn Leech over Ingrain, Substitute/Shadow Claw over Phantom Force, +Sp Def nature over Adamant on Trevenant

I guess I didn't make it clear -- these Pokemon were given to me, they have the Natures they have, I'm not breeding myself. They have 4/5 IVs, anyway, and I don't have good breeding stock, so I'm not gonna risk breeding an inferior Pokemon (not to mention that since I'm only now at Cyllage City, I can't check IVs anyway).

Anyway, is the strategy with that Sceptile build to use Leaf Storm, and then not care about the Special Attack drop, and switch over to Physical (in which case I wouldn't want to use Focus Blast)? Rock Slide's probably ideal for the coverage move, since it's super-effective against Flying and Fire. Oh, and Bug.

Air Slash wouldn't be good on Charizard, though. It's always preferable to focus either entirely on Physical or entirely on Special attacks.

Thanks for the Sceptile build, though.

 

[sharkshocker]

I just added 6 EVs so that you fill up the full 520, force of habit

As for the Sceptile set that was suggested, the White Herb will negate Leaf Storm's drop once and activate Unburden at the same time. Focus Sash can allow you to set up a Swords Dance without worries of getting KOd, and Acrobatics has good synergy with Unburden when the items are used up.

Hmm true I guess new players just want to hit fast and strong without any switching. Try out how Phantom Force works for you but I'd recommend Horn Leech over Ingrain so you're not forced to stay in on a bad matchup.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Whoops! Typo'd, I meant Special Attack for Char.

But according to this, Fire Spin is indeed buffed to 1/8. It actually doesn't say it's from Drought, I just assumed so, but nobody corrected him in that post, and that's Smogon, so somebody probably would have if it weren't correct.

Yeah it was buffed to 1/8th but CharY is not bulky enough to deal with most threats and has better things to do with its moveslots

Well, remember, this team is for random battles with Passersby. Most of them are just Uber Noobs and Mega Noobs; using powerful (and now, Mega Evolved) Pokemon, but without any understanding of strategy at all. I highly doubt I'll be seeing Shell Smash or anything. Plus, although the competitive community considers Phantom Force controversial, I've heard colloquial accounts of it doing well. I'll take your advice into consideration in case my Trevenant seems to be doing poorly, though. Thanks.

You'd be surprised how many good players will challenge random passerby to battle. Also it's always best to aim for the highest possible quality set regadless of who you think you'll be facing with it. Phantom force is good but only in certain situations, namely SubSeed Gourgeist and certain passive-damage reliant Trevenants. But Shadow Claw is better in general since 2 turns of using Shadow Claw = 210 BP while the same amount of time using Phantom Force outputs only 135 BP. This is especially relevant for you since you are Adamant and thus will be trying to get a higher damage output.

6 Def is no different from 4 Def, only every four EVs count. Good point about Burn, I'll go with that EV spread.

6 is just to show that you put all the extra EVs into Def, many new players get confused when Super Training and their mon does not show as 'fully trained' once all 508 usable EVs have been invested.

I'm just now at the second Gym. Gonna be a long while before I get any Life Orbs, heh. Guess I'll go bulky. Any suggestions on EV spread? Since Lapras has faily even SDef and Def, and since Water-effective coverage moves are pretty evenly split between Physical (Thunder Punch, Earthquake) and Special (Hidden Power, Thunderbolt), I'm thinking 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef.

20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe is the spread for LapDance with DDance, Waterfall, Return, and Ice Shard as the moves. But since you're Sassy that would be bad, since Sassy lowers Speed. Best to go bulky like you said, but splitting EVs is a terrible idea most of the time. 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD with Curse, Waterfall, Ice Shard, and Toxic/Avalanche would work. Or 252 HP/4 Sp Atk/252 SpD with Freeze Dry, Scald, Rest/Ice Shard, and Sleep Talk/Toxic would work. Or the same spread with Binding Band, Whirlpool, Perish Song, Rest, and Toxic.

But what attacking Moves? I encounter a LOT of Fairy Types in random online battles.

DDance/Outrage or Dragon Claw/Earthquake/Poison Jab holding Lum or Life Orb

I guess I didn't make it clear -- these Pokemon were given to me, they have the Natures they have, I'm not breeding myself. They have 4/5 IVs, anyway, and I don't have good breeding stock, so I'm not gonna risk breeding an inferior Pokemon (not to mention that since I'm only now at Cyllage City, I can't check IVs anyway).

Anyway, is the strategy with that Sceptile build to use Leaf Storm, and then not care about the Special Attack drop, and switch over to Physical (in which case I wouldn't want to use Focus Blast)? Rock Slide's probably ideal for the coverage move, since it's super-effective against Flying and Fire. Oh, and Bug.

Air Slash wouldn't be good on Charizard, though. It's always preferable to focus either entirely on Physical or entirely on Special attacks.

Thanks for the Sceptile build, though.

Sceptile uses Swords Dance on the first turn and lives a hit with Sash, activating Unburden essentially giving you +2 Speed/+ 2 Attack and a strong Flying coverage move. Drain Punch is the ideal coverage move here since it lets you recover after taking the big hit that brings you down to your Sash. It's imperative that you take such a hit since otherwise you'll be slow and Acrobatics will be weak for the whole match, so avoid entry hazards, Sand/Hail, status, etc. If you're running White Herb, SD on a forced switch (like a Quagsire or Gastrodon). Leaf Storm is strong STAB and can make short work of Physical walls, and White Herb will bring your SpA back up while reliably activating Unburden and Acrobatics. Focus Blast can be used in this case for its good coverage and high Base Power. All the options besides Focus Blast and Drain Punch are more niche and should only be used if you are lacking in that type of coverage in the rest of your team.

Air Slash is special, for one, and CharY has good mixed attacking stats besides. That's why EQ is standard on him, to muscle past Heatran and Specially Defensive Tyranitar. Also mixed attacking is totally a thing - and a very viable one at that, I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Simba]

Yeah it was buffed to 1/8th but CharY is not bulky enough to deal with most threats and has better things to do with its moveslots

Well, I'd obviously never send him in against anyone who could do him any serious damage, and I'd only ever Trap mons I knew he could withstand.

You'd be surprised how many good players will challenge random passerby to battle. Also it's always best to aim for the highest possible quality set regadless of who you think you'll be facing with it. Phantom force is good but only in certain situations, namely SubSeed Gourgeist and certain passive-damage reliant Trevenants. But Shadow Claw is better in general since 2 turns of using Shadow Claw = 210 BP while the same amount of time using Phantom Force outputs only 135 BP. This is especially relevant for you since you are Adamant and thus will be trying to get a higher damage output.

Hmm, yeah, I guess he is Adamant. And 5IV to boot (never asked which is the sixth, or how bad it is, though). I wanna try the Phantom Force, though, but I'll def Move Relearn to Horn Leech and Shadow Claw if I lose more than two or three times with it.

6 is just to show that you put all the extra EVs into Def, many new players get confused when Super Training and their mon does not show as 'fully trained' once all 508 usable EVs have been invested.

Is there anything special about being shown as fully trained?

20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe is the spread for LapDance with DDance, Waterfall, Return, and Ice Shard as the moves. But since you're Sassy that would be bad, since Sassy lowers Speed. Best to go bulky like you said, but splitting EVs is a terrible idea most of the time. 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD with Curse, Waterfall, Ice Shard, and Toxic/Avalanche would work. Or 252 HP/4 Sp Atk/252 SpD with Freeze Dry, Scald, Rest/Ice Shard, and Sleep Talk/Toxic would work. Or the same spread with Binding Band, Whirlpool, Perish Song, Rest, and Toxic.

I wanna use Freeze Dry, since it's good against Dragons (which are still over-used, and I don't mean the tier) as well as Water mons, whose STAB attacks Lapras will be resisting. And I know I definitely don't want to use Toxic -- if the enemy has no cleric, that Toxic will prevent me from Burning them, which is far preferable.

I've never used a RestTalker before, and I've always wanted to. It just seems like such a neat idea. And a bulky Lapras seems perfect for it. How's Rest, Sleep Talk, Freeze Dry and Scald sound? Might even get a lucky Burn, sparing Trevenant a move if I lose Lappy or need to switch her out.

If you're playing within a tier, isn't splitting IVs often a good idea, since you can know what the maximum stats are of others in the same tier, you could give yourself just enough EVs to best them. Hence why the uber Excadril's EVs are all over the place -- it's precisely calibrated to screw over all the OU threats it faced.

DDance/Outrage or Dragon Claw/Earthquake/Poison Jab holding Lum or Life Orb

I can't get a Life Orb, I'm way too early in the game. Remember, the whole point of this topic is to make use of some gifted mons so I can stand a chance in random Passersby battles while playing through the main game.

How's 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP with Dragon Dance, Dragon Claw, Earthquake and Poison Jab sound? If I Dance enough before a Fairy switches in, I might even be able to get a OHKO with Poison Jab. Probably don't want Outrage. It's pretty much unusable with the introduction of Fairy Type. If I use it and they switch in a Fairy, that's a death sentence for my dragon.

Sceptile uses Swords Dance on the first turn and lives a hit with Sash, activating Unburden essentially giving you +2 Speed/+ 2 Attack and a strong Flying coverage move. Drain Punch is the ideal coverage move here since it lets you recover after taking the big hit that brings you down to your Sash. It's imperative that you take such a hit since otherwise you'll be slow and Acrobatics will be weak for the whole match, so avoid entry hazards, Sand/Hail, status, etc. If you're running White Herb, SD on a forced switch (like a Quagsire or Gastrodon). Leaf Storm is strong STAB and can make short work of Physical walls, and White Herb will bring your SpA back up while reliably activating Unburden and Acrobatics. Focus Blast can be used in this case for its good coverage and high Base Power. All the options besides Focus Blast and Drain Punch are more niche and should only be used if you are lacking in that type of coverage in the rest of your team.

Oh, crud. I can't get Drain Punch on the Sceptile, 'cause it doesn't already have it and you can only teach him it in Gen IV. And I'm not sold on Focus Blast. 70% accuracy?! Sceptile has crappy defenses, if I miss with a Focus Blast, that's it, he's as good as dead. Plus, that 120 BP is effectively 84 when you factor in the abysmal accuracy.

Since Haxorus will have Earthquake and probably someone else will have Rock Slide, and I can't get Drain Punch and I'm not sold on Focus Blast, I think I'll go Swords Dance, Leaf Storm, Acrobatics and Night Slash. Decent power, 100% accuracy and high crit. Granted that means all Scep's moves will be ineffective against Steel, but I'm obviously going to switch in CharY if a Steel type comes along.

Air Slash is special, for one, and CharY has good mixed attacking stats besides. That's why EQ is standard on him, to muscle past Heatran and Specially Defensive Tyranitar. Also mixed attacking is totally a thing - and a very viable one at that, I know what I'm talking about.

Huh. Guess I've been out of the loop for awhile. You used to never mix 'cause you'd obviously only ever pour EVs into Attack or Special Attack, never both, so if you poured into Attack, a Special Move would be a waste of a slot due to sheer weakness, even if it gave you decent coverage.