How would you have felt if...

[megaevolvedmushroom]

Instead of Misty leaving the cast in "Gotta Catch Ya Later", Brock was the one to go?

Personally, I would have been livid. Brock is my favorite Pokemon character of all time, so I wouldn't be a fan of him leaving yet again. It would be pointless, too. (Remember: This is during Johto, so you're disregarding how stale he got later on).

Now, how would you have felt about Ash leaving, and Misty and Brock continuing on?

This might be...interesting. I would still be mad, and it wouldn't make any sense either. I might take that back if I saw what he had become later on, but this is assuming that never happened, which means that isn't an alternative.

 

[Cybersai]

I wouldn't care either way. Even if Misty stayed they most likely would have introduced May (and later Dawn) anyway.

If that happened Misty probably would have had Brock's role in AG, but she would still wind up on the sidelines compared to Ash and May/Dawn and their Contests.

 

[Hidden Mew]

If Brock had left instead of Misty, I would have been disappointed. I liked Brock a lot more than Misty, I was sad when he left in the Orange Island and it would have felt like a waste to bring him back for one more arc. While having two boys and two girls in the main cast sounds kind of appealing to me, assuming that May and Max would have still appeared in AG, I don't think that Misty could have fit in Brock's role in AG that well. Ash leaving while Misty and Brock staying around would have been kind of weird. Ash was still the main character, so they would have focused on him traveling somewhere else than to follow around Misty and Brock.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

I would be displeased partially because we would have lost Brock who just came back, but in longer run i believe anime would gained more than lost from Misty stay allowing for completely new formula, chemistry in cast and fresh alternative from gym and contests which her water goals offered, given how water rich Hoenn saga was.

If it was my way both would stayed with May still joining in though,and i believe original trio could have worked for AG if writers gave them more purpose being took in fresh directions. But since that wasn't possible considering i prefer Misty finding her more captivating as character i would be truth to be told happy if she stayed for Hoenn. Considering she was great character having lot of unused potential left to be done more by end of Johto parting of before time was up imo.

If Misty did stayed i can only imagine what things her presence could have brought to series embellishing their structure. It would have been interesting to see expansion from Whirl Cup advancing her water master career through water based events and dive more in whole concept of underwater battling through presence of water trainer(something which is real rarity as far as competition format go), catch new water types and grow forward. Hoenn was rich with water having many unique dual type water pokemon so i could see her catching likes of Hyuntail, Gorebyss,Peliper or Mudkip, there were water specialists like Juan and Wallace from which she could benefit and learn new things as trainer honing her skills. And her presence would likely make Team Aqua, Magma arc more meaningful since she as aspiring water trainer would likely want to stop their plans of eradicating water types from earth giving writers jutification top include her within such plots more actively.

There is also whole water based movie being more than appropriate for Misty to star there along with May.

Not to mention having her and May in Hoenn would have set foundation for whole new dynamic between characters being interesting imo to see how would two girls work in same cast taking chemistry to fresh, unexplored new level. Someone insecure and bubbly like May bouncing off with hotheaded, spirited and vivid Misty could surely bring lot of funny moments, clash and drama building on their friendship. Something which wasn't achievable through short cameos which were heavily plot oriented like whole task of evolving Togepi.

As far as other option go of Ash being replaced with Misty and Brock staying it wouldn't made much sense to me with series losing character which provided lot of identity and promotional value to them with such move. As well cutting on relationship and close bond they eatablished with his character making their past and all they went through kinda insignificant that way.
Granted seeing Misty or Brock being put in role of main stars around who story resolve while having potential to possibly make something interesting would have bneen more appropriate for something like chronicles, rather than main series imo.

I wouldn't care either way. Even if Misty stayed they most likely would have introduced May (and later Dawn) anyway.

If that happened Misty probably would have had Brock's role in AG, but she would still wind up on the sidelines compared to Ash and May/Dawn and their Contests.

Eh she would probably receive more focus than Brock did for AG considering how in original series Misty always got more development and screen time in comparison.

Along with having more active goal involving battling, training, exploring as well entering tournaments compared to breeding cal warranting more screen time and exposure.
Writers would also have easier time in having her play role in plots which involve battling and entering competitions from which Brock wouldn't benefit like villain arc Team Aqua and Magma being heavily emphasized on type she use, allowing that she plays role in episodes featuring Wallace or Juan, have her enter battle related competitions like May and Ash entered whether its contests, event involving pokemon cheerleading, dojo battle, orienteering)etc. Be involved in training episodes where she would work on her skills and help May with perfecting strategy for contests creating environment for older sister relationship becoming closer as friends. Etc.

Another important factor why Misty would likely get more focus than she used to have comes from Shudo blogs being revealed how size of her role in OS endangered stay, with only way to justify being kept past Johto lying in increasing character role and purpose in this show. In form of comprising her within AG series plpot and expand more on her story and dreams. Something writers started to do in whirl islands, but never had chance to do continuation due to leaving rather soon afterwards.

If Misty stayed for Hoenn chances are how Max would never existed providing more than enough space to have her more actively involved given how we would had three instead of four characters.
Looking back AG saga was highly rich with water being pity on writers part to not utilize Misty there and do more with story, with stay for one more region allowing to flesh her out to satisfactory degree and provide proper conclusion to by that point progressed plots leaving on better note.

I dunno, we never had two girls in cast and i know i would liked if this happened.

 

[Misty Calls Masquerain]

That would be terrible. There is NO point of Brock leaving so soon after he just returned, and NO point in taking out Ash but not Brock or Misty. They're friends who should have stuck together.

 

[Cybersai]

That would be terrible. There is NO point of Brock leaving so soon after he just returned, and NO point in taking out Ash but not Brock or Misty. They're friends who should have stuck together.

Since when do friends always stick together? Misty and Brock have better things to do in their lives than follow Ash around on his endless cycle of failing leagues.

How ironic that Misty and Brock actually progressed their goals when they STOPPED traveling with Ash, rather than just being his cheerleaders in his travels.

 

[Misty Calls Masquerain]

That would be terrible. There is NO point of Brock leaving so soon after he just returned, and NO point in taking out Ash but not Brock or Misty. They're friends who should have stuck together.

Since when do friends always stick together? Misty and Brock have better things to do in their lives than follow Ash around on his endless cycle of failing leagues.

How ironic that Misty and Brock actually progressed their goals when they STOPPED traveling with Ash, rather than just being his cheerleaders in his travels.

I didn't say friends ALWAYS have to stick together. My point was that there was no need for the split, it was a bad writing/marketing/whatever else you wanna call it-move.

Misty could become closer to her goal by traveling, not staying in her gym. Granted, she probably won't accomplish it by hanging around Ash, as opposed to traveling alone, but still better than being in a gym.

Also, Brock didn't progress his goal in anyway until End of Sinnoh. They did more things than just cheer him on, I know because I've watched each and every episode.

 

[Cybersai]

I didn't say friends ALWAYS have to stick together. My point was that there was no need for the split, it was a bad writing/marketing/whatever else you wanna call it-move.

How was it bad writing when it proved to be the most popular decision of the series? Johto was poorly received and fandom opinion on the show was at its lowest point. If anything Brock should have probably left back then too, even if he was still decent in AG. Either that or get rid of the entire cast for a real fresh start.

Misty could become closer to her goal by traveling, not staying in her gym. Granted, she probably won't accomplish it by hanging around Ash, as opposed to traveling alone, but still better than being in a gym.

Also, Brock didn't progress his goal in anyway until End of Sinnoh. They did more things than just cheer him on, I know because I've watched each and every episode.

Misty and Brock now have proper goals after they left Ash, what they had while traveling with him is brief nuggets of opportunity that they passed by because they had to follow Ash wherever he went.

 

[Misty Calls Masquerain]

*How was it bad writing when it proved to be the most popular decision of the series?*

By older people maybe. The target audience could have cared less, so it was unnecessary.

*Johto was poorly received*

Not by the kids.

*and fandom opinion on the show was at its lowest point.*

Keywords: FANDOM OPINION.

*If anything Brock should have probably left back then too, even if he was still decent in AG. Either that or get rid of the entire cast for a real fresh start.*

If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose the second one.

*Misty and Brock now have proper goals after they left Ash, what they had while traveling with him is brief nuggets of opportunity that they passed by because they had to follow Ash wherever he went.*

They could have modified the plot so that they can furthered their goals while traveling with Ash still.

 

[Cybersai]

By older people maybe. The target audience could have cared less, so it was unnecessary.

LOL, back in 2002 the target audience WAS the original kid fanbase. The oldest fans back then were probably only 13-16 year olds. You do realize back when the original trio split up, the show had only been on the air for 5 years, right? Most of the fanbase at the time was very young.

Not by the kids.

Once again, there was no older fanbase back in the old days. Few adults watched pokemon back then. Johto was poorly received by the Kanto/Orange fans who largely stopped watching after Charizard left around the time of the 3rd movie.

If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose the second one.

They should have gotten rid of Ash too, but since we don't have that luxury, I can see why they chose to keep Brock. He had just recently come back after Orange, while Misty stayed for all of Johto, so it was logical for her to be the one to leave.

They could have modified the plot so that they can furthered their goals while traveling with Ash still.

But they didn't. Even when focus on goals did improve in Hoenn and Sinnoh....Brock was still left to do nothing. Aside from a handful of fillers, his breeder goal was never progressed.

 

[Misty Calls Masquerain]

LOL, back in 2002 the target audience WAS the original kid fanbase. The oldest fans back then were probably only 13-16 year olds. You do realize back when the original trio split up, the show had only been on the air for 5 years, right? Most of the fanbase at the time was very young.

False, there were older people who liked Pokemon, both the show and games. The anime is AIMED @ 4/6-10 year olds. iirc

Once again, there was no older fanbase back in the old days. Few adults watched pokemon back then. Johto was poorly received by the Kanto/Orange fans who largely stopped watching after Charizard left around the time of the 3rd movie.

Adults did watch Pokemon, and the really young kids (which is who its aimed for) didn't care.

 

[Cybersai]

LOL, back in 2002 the target audience WAS the original kid fanbase. The oldest fans back then were probably only 13-16 year olds. You do realize back when the original trio split up, the show had only been on the air for 5 years, right? Most of the fanbase at the time was very young.

False, there were older people who liked Pokemon, both the show and games. The anime is AIMED @ 4/6-10 year olds. iirc

Once again, there was no older fanbase back in the old days. Few adults watched pokemon back then. Johto was poorly received by the Kanto/Orange fans who largely stopped watching after Charizard left around the time of the 3rd movie.

Adults did watch Pokemon, and the really young kids (which is who its aimed for) didn't care.

There wasn't much of an adult audience back then. The only reason adults watch it now is because we were the original kid fanbase grown up.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Once again, there was no older fanbase back in the old days. Few adults watched pokemon back then. Johto was poorly received by the Kanto/Orange fans who largely stopped watching after Charizard left around the time of the 3rd movie.

I think that you're using your opinion on Johto to speak for everyone. While Johto wasn't praised, I don't think that it was the case for the whole fandom or even the vast majority of people. Aside from you, I don't think I've heard of a lot of people who stopped watching the series shortly after Charizard left. It was usually either just not enjoying Pokemon anymore or because of the amount of filler episodes in the saga. I was also a fan back when Johto was originally airing. I had problems with it, but I didn't dislike it by any means. It was still enjoyable like the previous seasons were, so that's all that mattered to me.

They should have gotten rid of Ash too, but since we don't have that luxury, I can see why they chose to keep Brock. He had just recently come back after Orange, while Misty stayed for all of Johto, so it was logical for her to be the one to leave.

True. Misty had been around for nearly the entire series, so that probably factored into the ultimate decision to replace her. Plus, since they wanted to promote the new Pokemon Contests from the games and this was the third generation was the first one where you could start off as either a boy or girl trainer from the start, it made sense from a marketing stand-point to replace Misty for May.

They could have modified the plot so that they can furthered their goals while traveling with Ash still.

That seems pretty unlikely. Brock did get more focus in AG and DP than he did in the original series, which may not say that much, but they didn't do much with his goal. I imagine that it would have been roughly the same with Misty had she stuck around, although she'd probably at least battle a bit more often, but ultimately, I think that they made the right decision by replacing her.

 

[GibleKidd]

Meh. I suppose adding May in AG was a better choice than writing in more Whirl Cups and maybe entering Misty's Water-types in contests to develop her skills as a Gym Leader would be. This is something - being a huge fan of Misty - I've gone back and forth on before. Its probably for the best they did what they did. Though I still and always will maintain the firm belief that a few more cameos would not hurt.

As far as taking away Ash and keeping Brock and Misty, with presumably a new male lead... a thousand times no. First of all, Johto didn't give Ash good enough closure to boot him, despite what some might say. Second, Misty and Brock had their reasons for traveling with Ash, to add a character - presumably in the Hoenn region - and have Misty and Brock somehow BOTH suddenly pull a reason out of no where to follow him...im so glad that didn't happen, lol

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Since when do friends always stick together? Misty and Brock have better things to do in their lives than follow Ash around on his endless cycle of failing leagues.

How ironic that Misty and Brock actually progressed their goals when they STOPPED traveling with Ash, rather than just being his cheerleaders in his travels.

Misty caught bunch of new pokemon, learned how to better understand water types in bonds she established with pokemon like Marill, Poliwhirl or Horsea. Entered various competitions which helped push her forward in her water master career(especially Whirl Cup which was directly linked with water master goal)etc.

Brock learned several new things on his travels about preparing medicines, potions, pokemon food and hpw to properly raise up your pokemon. Exchanged tips with several breeders learning new things and gained experience by applying what he knew in helping injured or misunderstood pokemon like Stantler,. Sudowoodo, Sharpedo, Solrock, and many others.

May became full fledged coordinator improving on her skills coming top 4 in GF, along with defeating her main rivals.
Dawn almost became top coordinator and accomplished dream on first try.

Your logic is flawed.

Traveling with Ash doesn't stop his companions from advancing their dreams since way their careers are designed allows to intertwine with Ash traveling quest setting predispositions to learn new things and advance their own goals while being in company.

How much development said companion will receive in process depends solely on writer motivation and how far they wish to go, hence Ash not playing factor in this.

How was it bad writing when it proved to be the most popular decision of the series? Johto was poorly received and fandom opinion on the show was at its lowest point. If anything Brock should have probably left back then too, even if he was still decent in AG. Either that or get rid of the entire cast for a real fresh start.

"Popular decision?" Hardly when taken in account how much of backlash original group departure caused resulting in drop of people interest and various petitions, campaigns and controversy internet was bombarded for last decade about Misty removal and split of original group.

Most people back than were either skeptic or unhappy about this decision since it started negative trend of constant cast cycling in longer run resulting in messed up storyline, non existent continuity, lack of stable cast and established friendship between Ash and companions/storyline which would get carried over next generation allowing for build up of relationship and their gosls rather than rehashes of what we saw now.

As well more coherent/compact plot.

Noticeable complaints over repeated process of so often main characters being removed halfway unfinished without writers finishing job they started, just to start stiry with new ones ending unfinished and discarded eventually anyway only reflects people frustration and disappointment with such approach.

Misty and Brock now have proper goals after they left Ash, what they had while traveling with him is brief nuggets of opportunity that they passed by because they had to follow Ash wherever he went.

You mean Misty who never accomplished her dream of becoming master of water types going back to gym leader status she was already out of obligation and necessity? With added fact of further progressoon not being showed with her goals being left on standstill?

Or Brock whose breeder career was abandoned coming up with doctor thing just to have excuse to write him of cast?

Fact how many still complain over unfinished character stories and undefined future like its case with Misty and water goal only reveals how pelple never forget about unfinished jopb, like GS ball proved by now. Until staff finally provided answer(back in 2008) why it was discarded.

When writers replace companions they don't suddenly achieve their dreams or come close to them with plotlines they come up with not having them gain much in longer run, since they end up abandoned and forgotten anyway.

Getting rid of characters without providing closure to their dreams and plots, or abandoning story started with character quickly coming up with alternative to have way to get rid of him from main screen instead of investing more in his/her growth isn't progression, but step backwards.

LOL, back in 2002 the target audience WAS the original kid fanbase. The oldest fans back then were probably only 13-16 year olds. You do realize back when the original trio split up, the show had only been on the air for 5 years, right? Most of the fanbase at the time was very young.

Kids which grew up with Johto were no older than 9 or 10 still being in range of target audience.

But they didn't. Even when focus on goals did improve in Hoenn and Sinnoh....Brock was still left to do nothing. Aside from a handful of fillers, his breeder goal was never progressed.

They did more with Brock breeding career in Hoenn than it was case in OS.This wasn't only noticeable in learning to prepare new types of pokemon food, but also in exchanging tips and knowledge with other breeders sometimes even going as far to impress them(like Yuma prior to contest battle with May). He received more new pokemon and evolutions which was manifested in Mudkip, Lotad, Croagunk and Bonsly capture, he had more episodes focusing on himself. Aside from that writers also started to go further with breeding concept than they did ever before with Hoenn being first series where Brock got baby pokemon of who he took care of allowing him to display his knowledge and everything he learned putting to test his abilities and talent as pokemon raiser.

Yes he still didn't battled much, entered many competitions or was more active in general but that was mainly from passiveness of his dreams not having much links with training, battling etc which would had writers having easier job in making him more actively involved within plots from which trainers or coordinators like May or Ash benefit.
Something Misty goals allowed to make her more active in case she stayed as explained before.

Meh. I suppose adding May in AG was a better choice than writing in more Whirl Cups and maybe entering Misty's Water-types in contests to develop her skills as a Gym Leader would be. This is something - being a huge fan of Misty - I've gone back and forth on before. Its probably for the best they did what they did. Though I still and always will maintain the firm belief that a few more cameos would not hurt.

They could had still bring May and keep Misty in Hoenn though.
Personally i wasn't glad over her removal because she was complex and well developed character in emotional sense having already close friendship and history with friends being shame that she ended removed while having potential to be done much more with story. I mean just about when writers finally started diving more in her water master goals with Whirl Cup, enriched her pokemon team with dual types like Corsola becoming more confident and skilled as trainer having predisposition to go forward they removed her.

I believe her dreams had certain mystery brought around them holding more originality behind it compared to game quests like contests from who we know what to expect. Her position actually allowed to rank up as trainer while making plausible way for sequel. Whether its following Wallace footsteps being on travels and entering tournaments becoming world renowned and strongest water trainer, try to be promoted to E4 place passing tasks and evaluatirs while learning from other pokemon experts like Juan, her idol Lorelei or Wallace himself, be involved with legendary pokemon plot like they dud in manga where she lft on quest to earn Suicune respect choosing her as partner etc.:c
Something she couldn't really do at gym.

And i miss her vibrant and lively character bringing more drama, tensdion and humor than most characters who traveled with Ash brought so far imo .
But i guess theres no point in crying over spoiled milk, though as i mentioned before i still think character could've gain alot if stayed for Hoenn given water experts stacionary there and plots this region offered to have her more actively involved.
If character isn't flesg out enough having potential to be done more i say staying is better than leaving.

 

[Cybersai]

To be honest I wouldn't have mind if the Hoenn group was Ash, Misty, May and Brock (or Ash, Misty, May and Max), but it doesn't really matter now. They would have dropped Misty eventually at some point, just like Brock finally went at the end of DP.

 

[Misty Calls Masquerain]

LOL, back in 2002 the target audience WAS the original kid fanbase. The oldest fans back then were probably only 13-16 year olds. You do realize back when the original trio split up, the show had only been on the air for 5 years, right? Most of the fanbase at the time was very young.

False, there were older people who liked Pokemon, both the show and games. The anime is AIMED @ 4/6-10 year olds. iirc

Once again, there was no older fanbase back in the old days. Few adults watched pokemon back then. Johto was poorly received by the Kanto/Orange fans who largely stopped watching after Charizard left around the time of the 3rd movie.

Adults did watch Pokemon, and the really young kids (which is who its aimed for) didn't care.

There wasn't much of an adult audience back then. The only reason adults watch it now is because we were the original kid fanbase grown up.

Even back then, adults (not the original audience) watched it.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Meh. I suppose adding May in AG was a better choice than writing in more Whirl Cups and maybe entering Misty's Water-types in contests to develop her skills as a Gym Leader would be. This is something - being a huge fan of Misty - I've gone back and forth on before. Its probably for the best they did what they did. Though I still and always will maintain the firm belief that a few more cameos would not hurt.

I couldn't really see Misty using her Water Pokemon in Contests to develop her skills. It could have passed as an excuse to keep her around, but she wouldn't be into showcasing the beauty of her Pokemon's attacks. She would be more interested in just battling in a more direct approach rather than trying to make combinations or look good while performing it. A few more cameos wouldn't have hurt, although she did get a couple of specials, which is more than what May and Dawn got, but I think that it was for the best that they took her out for May. Introducing a new character who was more marketing relevant and could have her own reason for getting into Pokemon Contests, instead of trying to shoehorn Misty into that role, worked out much better than I think it would have if Misty had stuck around.

As far as taking away Ash and keeping Brock and Misty, with presumably a new male lead... a thousand times no. First of all, Johto didn't give Ash good enough closure to boot him, despite what some might say. Second, Misty and Brock had their reasons for traveling with Ash, to add a character - presumably in the Hoenn region - and have Misty and Brock somehow BOTH suddenly pull a reason out of no where to follow him...im so glad that didn't happen, lol

While the end of Johto was one of the few times that replacing Ash could have actually worked, I agree that it didn't give him quite enough closure for that to work. I would have felt too sad over Ash leaving then, especially when the trio splitting up made me sad too, mostly because of the song they played during Misty's flashbacks and Ash getting so choked up too. Misty and Brock following around another trainer in Hoenn would have been kind of weird too. If they actually did get rid of Ash back then, it would have made more sense to just start off with a whole new cast than to somehow get Misty and Brock to travel around with someone else.

To be honest I wouldn't have mind if the Hoenn group was Ash, Misty, May and Brock (or Ash, Misty, May and Max), but it doesn't really matter now. They would have dropped Misty eventually at some point, just like Brock finally went at the end of DP.

Both groups could have been interesting and I do like the idea of having two male and two female characters in the main traveling group for some reason, but I'm still fine with how it actually did turn out.

 

[Cybersai]

Meh. I suppose adding May in AG was a better choice than writing in more Whirl Cups and maybe entering Misty's Water-types in contests to develop her skills as a Gym Leader would be. This is something - being a huge fan of Misty - I've gone back and forth on before. Its probably for the best they did what they did.

There was something to go back and forth about? And "probably" for the best? I think it was a sure fire hit the whole way through.

Though I still and always will maintain the firm belief that a few more cameos would not hurt.

Well the same could be said about any character though.

 

[Pokémon Master Ash]

Honestly, I still actually really liked Brock in the Hoenn and BF series, and I actually think he had some pretty awesome Pokemon team development and his variety was interesting to note this arc, but I still would've preferred the AG group to both Misty and Brock when crunch time came. I don't care for Tracey as much, so he could stay back in the lab.

My ideal scenario for the AG group would've been a 5 person group with Ash/Misty/Brock/May/Max. Yeah, yeah, yeah...people, I actually liked Max...especially after I saw "Did I Hear a Ralts?" He was pretty cute, actually, and the first character to grow on me in AG despite being a know-it-all sometimes.

As for Team Rocket, I think I'll let my main man James explain my thoughts on the matter: James of Team Rocket's Meltdown - YouTube. JK. I loved TRio in Hoenn- glad they came along for the ride that arc, even if was when they began to get flanderized after the first 40 or so eps of AG. A lot of their best comedic moments are in Season 6/the first season of AG, IMO.

However, Brock should've left after the Battle Frontier Saga, IMO. I honestly don't know WTF they did to him in Sinnoh, but it was painful to watch one of my favorite chars on the show being reduced to a running gag with no purpose, getting his goal changed at the last minute for the sake of removing him from the show. Add to that Bill Rogers' voice for Brock getting way too rough in DP for my taste, and I was horrified by the Sinnoh version of his character.