How would you improve(ability and movepool)Delphox and Chesnaught to make Greninja more competition?

[Matleo]

I think Magic Bounce makes the most sense and some more moves with nice effects could pimp up Delphox.
Magic Fire was nice, but people would want rather something that reduces all stats, or is supperefective to ghosts and types that normally are neutral to fire.
Would give her Omnious Wind or Ancient Power.
Taking that Overheat will take its price.

for Chesnaught I think Bulletproof could really take on blast and beam based moves also not only bomb and bullets. Blast are from bombs if you think more about it, and if something takes a bomb then a beam should also not make a problem (to counter Ice Beam Greninja and Fire Blast Delphox)

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

A quick idea on how to make chesnaught better:

Abilities:
Overgrow -> Poison Heal
Bulletproof -> Technician

Stats:
HP 88 -> 60
Attack 107 -> 130
Defense 122 -> 80
Special Attack 74 -> 60
Special Defense 75 -> 60
Speed 64 -> 70

Movepool: Add Spore, Bullet Seed, Mach Punch

Name: Chesnaught -> Breloom

JK of course but Chesnaught is already viable in OU and UU and Greninja is flat-out broken so no need to try and make the others match him

 

[Gengarzilla]

for Chesnaught I think Bulletproof could really take on blast and beam based moves also not only bomb and bullets. Blast are from bombs if you think more about it, and if something takes a bomb then a beam should also not make a problem (to counter Ice Beam Greninja and Fire Blast Delphox)

Greninja also learns Extrasensory, which your buffed Bulletproof won't block. Had to point that out there.

 

[sc190191]

Something that may help Delphox would be getting access to a special fire type move with 30% burn (not searing shot because that is a sig move), so it can at least have access to as good a burn chance as Greninja, considering it is the fire type. Not sure if this makes enough sense, but Chesnaught could be helped by rock polish (or agility I guess), some non rock types can learn the move. As far as abilities, bulletproof is pretty good, but sludge bomb is the only super effective move it stops. I agree magic bounce would be a much better HA for Delphox.

Probably not a popular response, but my REAL answer to this question is that I would totally take away Protean, its just too good, especially with a very fast Pokemon using it. Something GF doesn't do anymore that bothers me is that in the past (unless a legendary, actually most times even legendaries...) if a Pokemon had amazing base stats they typically wouldn't also get an amazing ability or if they had an amazing ability their stats would either not be too great or something about them would limit the ability in some way. Protean is not the only example against this trend, but it is relevant to this conversation. Anyway, making Delphox and Chesnaught better doesn't solve the problem, because then Kalos starters are just way better than starters of other gens and other Pokemon they typically should be competing with. I just think we need to tone down everything being super super good and just settle for very good.

 

[Vixi]

Protean needs to be modified.

 

[Guzma]

Nothing would make them competitive with Greninja short of Protean being modified, and I don't see GF doing that.

 

[Zeb]

Yeah Magician on Delphox is a big no-no that limiting for it. Something magical like Magic Guard or Magic Bounce would help, maybe even No Guard for Inferno? Mystical Fire should also be stronger, like Flamethrower level power (90BP). It's a signature move so very little else get it (I think just Mismagius? But Ninetales should get it too) so increasing its power isn't a huge problem since it's learn pool is very small. It's a signature move that has very little reason to be used, so makes it kinda pointless. Give it Focus Blast and Thunderbolt and also maybe Nasty Plot since it's a mage. So many Psychic-types learn Thunderbolt yet Delphox was neglected. Probably wouldn't be Greninja-level even with all these, but a lot better than it was (and I don't even like Delphox!).

Chesnaught I think should learn Rapid Spin. There's some other moves like Knock Off and Play Rough that would fit it but I don't see them changing things much for it. Don't really know what else to give it to improve it since it's not horrible right now and offensive buffs are easier to hand out than defensive ones I guess.

 

[Gengarzilla]

Outside of giving Chesnaught and Delphox Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave respectively, I can't really think of much that's not already been said. Fighting type priority would definitely stop Greninja if it doesn't sidestep the two with Protean Shadow Sneak.

 

[Matleo]

Greninja also learns Extrasensory, which your buffed Bulletproof won't block. Had to point that out there.

3 ice type moves would atlest be out of problem, yes Extrasensory exists but I wanted to buff and not create a Doomsday like in BatmanVSuperman: Dawn of Justice(instead Versus they could have called it Public Enemies, that would have been more mysterious)

Delphox with Forest Curse, Perish Song ,Whirlwind, Destiny Bond, Phantom Force?
If delphox ever gets a second mega then secondary fairy or ghost typing would be very beneficial and good for it.

What about a Chesnaught with Extreme Speed? It looks like a good football player.
This would it to hit hard and fast. The same should have hapened with Samurott in past.

Taking away Protean doesnt buff anything, a little buff to make them more competitive seeing that old generation starters movepool, megas and typings.
I would like them to get a little buff every generation like past starters got.
I feel that they under movepooled Delphox because of its stats, but they forgot the magic theme and that we never got a starter with above mentioned moves.

How would you buff other generation starters if You could?
Regular Torterra or Samurrot with Sturdy?(Both got Shel Armor???)

-Make Chesnaught learn Fake Out , Extream Speed and Circle Throw??? it got already Super Fang.