Hunter J's death

[matt0044]

Even now, that scene bugs the heck out of me.

Okay, I give the TV show props for show actual on-screen death with little ambiguity and no resurrections of any kind and I'm surprised even the dub left it untouched (then again, it's not done by 4kids who would've said everyone was transported to Azelf's dimension in the whirlpool).

However, the problem is that it happens... and that's it. No follow-up, no future consequence, she just shows up, gets the Lake Trio and *BOOM* dead. It feels like the writers just threw up their hands and said, "let's just kill her off for the hell of it."

And the real kicker is that they could've at least given her a proper send off in a future episode (in place of one of the fillers ahead) where Ash manages to defeat her and help bring her to justice. She was a darn great villain. Why the heck did they just drop her in the trash like some dirty rag?

I don't hate it, I don't love it. It's just... confusing.

Thoughts?

 

[Muur]

Not confirmed she's dead.

Was a good surprising scene though!

 

[Hidden Mew]

While it's never been confirmed that she did die there, I think that it's pretty unlikely that she survived. The only way she could have gotten out of there would be if she had a Pokemon use Teleport, but as far as we know, she didn't have a Pokemon that could use that move and her visor being underwater indicated that she, along with all of her grunts, died.

Honestly, while a proper send-off could have been interesting, I prefer how she supposedly died over just her being arrested. It was more memorable and much more surprising than just going off to jail. Besides that, I don't think it would have been too believable for Ash to take her down. They already had shown how powerful and ruthless she was, so I don't think that Ash could have defeated her. He might have been able to give her a good fight with Infernape and Torterra, but it seems pretty unlikely that he could have defeated her with how much they build her up in her appearances. Killing her off was the better alternative in my opinion.

 

[SammyW27]

There was no time to delve into it while dealing with Team Galactic's plan. Plus, the producers decided they were done with her, so just get rid of her.

Thing is, I feel like it's fitting. She caused pain and destruction everywhere she went, all to make a quick buck. It's karmic that she be taken out by Lake Guardians (even if it was after she defeated them). And I think I like her dying a lot better than being carted off to rot in prison along with the other bad guys...

 

[matt0044]

Thing is, I feel like it's fitting. She caused pain and destruction everywhere she went, all to make a quick buck. It's karmic that she be taken out by Lake Guardians (even if it was after she defeated them). And I think I like her dying a lot better than being carted off to rot in prison along with the other bad guys...

You have a point but it still feels... jarring when I watch it in DP151. Like in terms of story structure and progression overall, it feels very asspull-ish. And considering this show, that's saying a lot. In other words, this is NOT good writing.

Besides that, I don't think it would have been too believable for Ash to take her down. They already had shown how powerful and ruthless she was, so I don't think that Ash could have defeated her.

I didn't mean in a mano-e-mano fight where it's JUST Ash and J (really, when has it) so much as one where everyone, Ash, Dawn, Brock, is involved. I know CAN work.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I didn't mean in a mano-e-mano fight where it's JUST Ash and J (really, when has it) so much as one where everyone, Ash, Dawn, Brock, is involved. I know CAN work.

Even with a group attack, I'm not sure if they could have defeated Hunter J. It sounds more like a possibility than Ash alone defeating her, but it still doesn't sound too plausible given how powerful her Pokemon are and how she's willing to attempted murderer in order to get people out of her way.

 

[Shadao]

Given that she hunts Pokemon of any kind, including legendaries, for profits and shows no concern of what her clients, such as Cyrus, would actually do with them, it was poetic justice that she was brought down for tampering with the balance of nature. It also demonstrates that the Lake Trio are a force not to be trifled with so easily and why they are called legendary Pokemon.

 

[Littleleaf]

Whether or not she deserved to die in such a fashion, I really wish she'd had more screen time. She had potential to be a fairly significant 'big bad'. I guess she was just too dark for the magical innocent world of Pokemon that has to keep within its PG rating.

 

[HumanDawn]

I'd rather believe she didn't die. Yes I know it's very unlikely, but it's what I'd like to think. I like how the scene was just left up for interpretation on whether she died or not. We never saw her body go down with her visor, so for all we know she managed to escape and lived. It's a shame it was her last episode because as a character she had so much potential, and while I can see how such a send off was fitting, it was too early in my opinion to make her leave the show and she could have gotten a better one later. After Team Galactic there were no other villains other than Team Rocket. I'd have preferred if Hunter J got her own last epic arc later instead of being shoehorned into Team Galactic's because that's what I believed her character deserved, and what it seemed like she would get instead of such a lame send off.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I'd rather believe she didn't die. Yes I know it's very unlikely, but it's what I'd like to think. I like how the scene was just left up for interpretation on whether she died or not. We never saw her body go down with her visor, so for all we know she managed to escape and lived. It's a shame it was her last episode because as a character she had so much potential, and while I can see how such a send off was fitting, it was too early in my opinion to make her leave the show and she could have gotten a better one later. After Team Galactic there were no other villains other than Team Rocket. I'd have preferred if Hunter J got her own last epic arc later instead of being shoehorned into Team Galactic's because that's what I believed her character deserved, and what it seemed like she would get instead of such a lame send off.

They wouldn't show her dead body though. That would be going way too dark for its target audience. Even in cases where Pokemon have died for good, like in some of the movies, they don't leave a body, so they definitely wouldn't show a human character's dead body. Showing the visor was the best, and probably only way, they could have indicated that she died without showing her corpse. While an arc devoted to Hunter J sounds pretty cool and I wouldn't have been against it, I didn't think that her send-off was bad. It was surprising and a better end to her character than just being arrested. Maybe her demise being the center focus rather than something used for one scene might have been nice, but I don't think that hurt her send-off in the long run.

 

[HumanDawn]

They wouldn't show her dead body though. That would be going way too dark for its target audience. Even in cases where Pokemon have died for good, like in some of the movies, they don't leave a body, so they definitely wouldn't show a human character's dead body. Showing the visor was the best, and probably only way, they could have indicated that she died without showing her corpse.

I know they wouldn't, but that doesn't mean it was the writers' intention to indicate she died or confirm it, maybe it was to cause speculation, and it's much more interesting to think of whether she survived or not rather than actually dying. I could have done the same thing with a character for a children's show, it doesn't necessarily mean they died and I think there have been cases where no body of a villain was shown and they ended up appearing later anyway. All we know for sure is the visor went deep underwater. Anything else is assumptions filling in holes because it's what likely happened being treated as fact. She could have shown up later if the writers wanted with a reason being given of as to how survived and it wouldn't have sounded too far fetched. It could very well be they had plans to put her in more episodes, but they scrapped them. We don't know anything for sure so it's kind of premature to just say she died as a fact. She could have very likely died but that doesn't mean she died. I admit I'd rather believe

While an arc devoted to Hunter J sounds pretty cool and I wouldn't have been against it, I didn't think that her send-off was bad. It was surprising and a better end to her character than just being arrested. Maybe her demise being the center focus rather than something used for one scene might have been nice, but I don't think that hurt her send-off in the long run.

Hunter J is my favourite character from the DP saga and I would like that more of her potential was used instead of being wasted. If I didn't like her as much as I do I wouldn't have minded the send off that much, but the writers made her so likeable and cool as a villain throughout her run it's a really big waste.

 

[Beth Pavell]

It's kinda thematic of DP in general, I feel. Throughout the villainous arcs the pattern is usually repeated - Team Galactic or Hunter J show up, they spend most of the episode being undefeatable and get driven off in time for the end credits. In the case of Hunter J I just couldn't suspend my disbelief - the massive airship, the phlebotinum blaster ... how does she afford it? Why are they really necessary to catch live pokémon for clients? And if she does make enough money to maintain that equipment, what does she do with the money? We never see her live the high life, unlike say, Giovanni. So when she finally gets decisively beaten I couldn't help but feel pleased that she didn't Diabolus Ex Machina her way back onto the screen

 

[matt0044]

Yet in the TG finale, if you were to replace her role with Saturn, Jupiter and Mars, none would be the wiser. She's just so... shoehorned into the plot.

 

[Team Gaara]

I don't feel like they said, "oh, let's just kill her off." I feel like it was the only thing they could do for J. She had been pretty much undefeatable during every encounter and she's even tried to kill Ash several times. She was that strong, and evil, might I add. I just don't think they could have realistically defeated J with all the tech she had and people working for her and ever her own Pokemon. I personally don't think they would have been able to defeat J.

To me, Ash defeating her and her going to jail would have been a must worse end for J. I prefer her death because it shows how powerful she was as a character, in addition to the Lake Trio's own power. She was punished for her extreme greed, selfishness, and just being plain heartless. In my eyes, she got what she deserved and it was more fitting.

 

[HumanDawn]

A death would have been an epic end and a satisfying conclusion to an arc if it was her last one, but if we're to assume she really died then it's just too sudden and anti-climatic. If Hunter J wasn't a recurring villain and an established threat, it would have fit, but with what was built up it feels like the writers just took the easy route in getting rid of her.

 

[Covershot]

But nothing was really “built up” with Hunter J. She was just a villain who showed up from time to time and attempted to steal Pokemon, with no sense of an ongoing storyline as there was with Team Galactic. Dying in the middle of a three-episode arc while dealing with Legendary Pokemon was about as climactic as anything else J could really have done.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I know they wouldn't, but that doesn't mean it was the writers' intention to indicate she died or confirm it, maybe it was to cause speculation, and it's much more interesting to think of whether she survived or not rather than actually dying. I could have done the same thing with a character for a children's show, it doesn't necessarily mean they died and I think there have been cases where no body of a villain was shown and they ended up appearing later anyway. All we know for sure is the visor went deep underwater. Anything else is assumptions filling in holes because it's what likely happened being treated as fact. She could have shown up later if the writers wanted with a reason being given of as to how survived and it wouldn't have sounded too far fetched. It could very well be they had plans to put her in more episodes, but they scrapped them. We don't know anything for sure so it's kind of premature to just say she died as a fact. She could have very likely died but that doesn't mean she died. I admit I'd rather believe

It could have been to cause speculation, but considering she wasn't mentioned or heard of afterwards, it seemed much more likely that they used the visor underwater to indicate that she died. The only way she could have escaped would have been if she had a Pokemon use Teleport and none of her Pokemon, that we know of anyway, could have done that. Throwing in that excuse afterwards also would have been a cheap excuse for her to survive. There's no indication that they even had to scrap episodes where she appeared after that episode, so that seems like a bit of a stretch. Villains appearing after seemingly being killed off has happened in other children's shows, especially in superhero cartoons, but I don't think it would have worked well with Hunter J. It wouldn't have made much sense and it would have taken away all of the intensity from that scene away. Her death was never confirmed and most likely won't unless XY, or a future series, confirms it, which seems pretty unlikely. Even so, I believe that she did dd die.

Hunter J is my favourite character from the DP saga and I would like that more of her potential was used instead of being wasted. If I didn't like her as much as I do I wouldn't have minded the send off that much, but the writers made her so likeable and cool as a villain throughout her run it's a really big waste.

I don't see how she was likable as a villain. She was a good villain, but she was cold, cruel and wasn't above trying to kill people, even if it included her own grunts. There was nothing likable about her at all in my opinion.

A death would have been an epic end and a satisfying conclusion to an arc if it was her last one, but if we're to assume she really died then it's just too sudden and anti-climatic. If Hunter J wasn't a recurring villain and an established threat, it would have fit, but with what was built up it feels like the writers just took the easy route in getting rid of her.

I'm not sure what other Pokemon could have killed her off though.

But nothing was really “built up” with Hunter J. She was just a villain who showed up from time to time and attempted to steal Pokemon, with no sense of an ongoing storyline as there was with Team Galactic. Dying in the middle of a three-episode arc while dealing with Legendary Pokemon was about as climactic as anything else J could really have done.

I completely agree. While an entire arc for Hunter J sounds like a cool idea, I didn't think that they showed any interest in going that route considering that she only appeared every now and then to steal certain Pokemon for a buyer. She was a good villain and they built her up as a big threat, but unlike Team Galactic, who were also pretty threatening, there wasn't a storyline to go along with her and I don't think that would have changed if they made her appear later on. I think that the way she died was pretty fitting with how she had been handled prior to that point.

 

[matt0044]

I personally don't think they would have been able to defeat J.

This show's very Shonen-ish and "Power of Friendship beat all." Ash would beat her if the plot demanded it, realistic or not. Pokemon, remember?

To me, Ash defeating her and her going to jail would have been a must worse end for J. I prefer her death because it shows how powerful she was as a character, in addition to the Lake Trio's own power. She was punished for her extreme greed, selfishness, and just being plain heartless. In my eyes, she got what she deserved and it was more fitting.

Just so we're clear, I do agree with you here but did her death need to be in the TG finale? You could literally cut her death scene out and it would hardly affect anything. That's my main beef with it. Not that she died but that her end just happens and that's it. That isn't good writing. If it was during an encounter with Ash where she was the driving force behind said hypothetical story, that would work.

But nothing was really “built up” with Hunter J. She was just a villain who showed up from time to time and attempted to steal Pokemon, with no sense of an ongoing storyline as there was with Team Galactic. Dying in the middle of a three-episode arc while dealing with Legendary Pokemon was about as climactic as anything else J could really have done.

She didn't need an ongoing storyline but her just dying like that was just... cheap.

 

[HumanDawn]

But nothing was really “built up” with Hunter J. She was just a villain who showed up from time to time and attempted to steal Pokemon, with no sense of an ongoing storyline as there was with Team Galactic. Dying in the middle of a three-episode arc while dealing with Legendary Pokemon was about as climactic as anything else J could really have done.

I really disagree because then they wouldn't have had her appear so many times and have so much focus. She was a very strong villain throughout DP and a sort of rivalry between her and Ash and his friends was built. If anything, I thought she was more of a threat than Team Galactic, and her episodes were more interesting for me. I'd say she deserved her own movie too.

Throwing in that excuse afterwards also would have been a cheap excuse for her to survive.

Ehh I don't see how that would be cheap.

Villains appearing after seemingly being killed off has happened in other children's shows, especially in superhero cartoons, but I don't think it would have worked well with Hunter J. It wouldn't have made much sense and it would have taken away all of the intensity from that scene away. Her death was never confirmed and most likely won't unless XY, or a future series, confirms it, which seems pretty unlikely. Even so, I believe that she did dd die.

The scene had no intensity to begin with so nothing would be taken away for me.

I don't see how she was likable as a villain. She was a good villain, but she was cold, cruel and wasn't above trying to kill people, even if it included her own grunts. There was nothing likable about her at all in my opinion.

Those are traits I love in a villain. She was so ruthless and powerful and she brought so much action and intensity, and I liked how the writers didn't bring up some backstory that made her the way she is. She was straight up evil and really nice to watch.

I'm not sure what other Pokemon could have killed her off though.

Heatran? I think he was the only non event legendary left to show after.

I completely agree. While an entire arc for Hunter J sounds like a cool idea, I didn't think that they showed any interest in going that route considering that she only appeared every now and then to steal certain Pokemon for a buyer. She was a good villain and they built her up as a big threat, but unlike Team Galactic, who were also pretty threatening, there wasn't a storyline to go along with her and I don't think that would have changed if they made her appear later on. I think that the way she died was pretty fitting with how she had been handled prior to that point.

I don't think she needed a storyline with how she was built up prior, and she definitely did not deserve to get the treatment she got in the end writing wise. Team Galactic themselves could have done it, or some other group instead of an established character that would have been better off in a separate arc.

As unlikely as it is I'd love for Hunter J to return, and if not, another villain like her would be amazing.

 

[Covershot]

She didn't need an ongoing storyline but her just dying like that was just... cheap.

She died - in and of itself a unique way of going out, given what show this is - in the finale of one of the series’ high-profile storylines by the combined power of three legendary Pokemon. Given that J was ultimately only a minor villain who made really sparse appearances, I don’t think that’s cheap at all. You can argue that the series could have done more with J as a character in general - and I might agree with you - but for what J actually was, I think her ending was perfectly fine.

I really disagree because then they wouldn't have had her appear so many times and have so much focus. She was a very strong villain throughout DP and a sort of rivalry between her and Ash and his friends was built. If anything, I thought she was more of a threat than Team Galactic, and her episodes were more interesting for me. I'd say she deserved her own movie too.

I enjoyed J. Her viciousness made her really stand out and I enjoyed all of her episodes. It was nice to get an antagonist who wasn’t Team Rocket or the usual regional villain team, and I’m disappointed that no other Pokemon saga thought to do something like her before DP.

But that said, I think you’re overstating Hunter J. Before the Galactic finale, J appeared in 4-5 episodes (depending on how you count the Pokemon Ranger two-parter), a drop in the bucket given that there were 151 episodes before the start of that three-parter. Her ambitions and the threat she presented didn't match the scope of Team Galactic. I can’t remember any real development with her or her goals, and the role she played in each and every one of her appearances was exactly the same and didn't really build off the last one to any significant degree. In the grand scheme of things, Hunter J was really a very minor character.