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Preview HZ112: Roy-Training

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This upcoming mini-arc is pretty hype. Although, it's planned for October. Are we getting a huge break lasting all of September? Or are they just announcing the arc one month in advance?
 
sc190191 said:
This makes it even more annoying that Liko’s time skip year was wasted…it would have been nice if they both did something interesting.
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To all you Liko fans here/out there in the world, I'm sorry, but......that girl is just a complete and total nothing burger of a character in my opinion. Like.....she just utterly bores me to tears.
 
Die-Hard Dragon Devotee said:
To all you Liko fans here/out there in the world, I'm sorry, but......that girl is just a complete and total nothing burger of a character in my opinion. Like.....she just utterly bores me to tears.
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well, i have similar thoughts, but about Roy and Uruto. Full disclaimer, I do not hate them, I mostly like all of the characters to varying degrees.
The thing is, the character archetypes that Roy and Uruto represent... well, they are VERY well represented in big and popular mainstream anime and cartoons, and well, the so called shonen genre in general. Having a compassionate introverted girl protagonist, who tries her best to grow in her own ways and explores the world, in an anime that is not a shojo, is inherently more interesting to me, purely because of the fact that it is more rarely done. I do wish that she continues to grow, and I hope that she does not get relegated to a secondary role, because there is still a lot more potential to explore here.
Btw, I do think that it is good that they are making this flashback special, since Roy and Uruto need more developement too. Especially Uruto, since he is a relatively new addition, and his presence until the recent two parter with him, felt a little forced to me. The only thing I am worried about is that since this special is a flashback, his personality will be... more nasty than in the recent episode in which he actually learns how to collaborate and communicate better a bit.
 
NumberOneSpinelApologist said:
Having a compassionate introverted girl protagonist, who tries her best to grow in her own ways and explores the world, in an anime that is not a shojo, is inherently more interesting to me, purely because of the fact that it is more rarely done.
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In the next series I hope we get an introverted boy as protagonist or at least as a companion. Characters like Roy are extremely predictable and have been way overdone in the pokemon anime. The story in previous sagas was limited because of it. It’s time for some change and I’m glad that the writers were finally allowed to move on from protagonists who are never going to grow. They had that leash for decades and it was very annoying to be stuck with a protagonist that was truly going nowhere besides battling. I understand not liking the new characters and their story, but surely anyone can understand the potential that this change represent for future sagas.
 
Die-Hard Dragon Devotee said:
To all you Liko fans here/out there in the world, I'm sorry, but......that girl is just a complete and total nothing burger of a character in my opinion. Like.....she just utterly bores me to tears.
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Respect your opinion and understand not preferring the protagonist - I honestly wasn't really a fan of Ash for the majority of the 25 years, I really love Pokemon in general, a lot of the specific Pokemon in the series, and am a huge fan of a lot of the other protagonists, but was more or less indifferent to Ash and sometimes found him annoying. As a big fan of Liko finally having a main character I really enjoy and actually felt I could identify with a bit (in stark contrast to Ash) I find it quite frustrating that after just two years she is already seeming to get a bit of a backseat (caveat that obviously she is still one of the protagonists and clearly she is still getting some development) and worse yet she is getting that backseat in favor of making Roy more like Ash. To make that worse I actually like pre time skip Roy (definitely higher on my list than Ash), so to go full circle and make Roy more like Ash and have him "pass" Liko is just a really significant frustration for me personally. And then to add on they add Uruto, who to me is a complete waste of time utterly obnoxious character and my least favorite "protagonist" in the history of the series (passing Sophocles) - sorry to any Uruto fans.

My initial reaction was likely a bit of an overreaction, as Liko is still around and getting some good moments, but as the second year was ending it seemed like Liko was actually going to get even more of the spotlight, and after years of Ash taking so much spotlight from characters I liked more than him I was really hoping it was Liko's turn and she could actually have an even greater emphasis after the gains she made in the last arc, so to go the other direction is super disappointing.

I still will likely enjoy this arc and its relation to Z-A. I would say the arc is "needed" to explain Lucario, but it is only needed because of the assinine addition of Lucario in the first place, so needed may not be the word I would use. I would enjoy it a lot more if Liko, Roy, and Dot had all gone to Kalos. Just imagine the crazed backlash they would have gotten if Ash had gotten benched for 3 episodes in Sinnoh while we focused on Dawn in Johto or Ash had gotten benched for 3 episodes in Hoenn to focus on May in Kanto (ironically I would have loved all of that, but it was never going to happen).
 
In the next series I hope we get an introverted boy as protagonist or at least as a companion. Characters like Roy are extremely predictable and have been way overdone in the pokemon anime
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Yes, I agree 100%, it's so cliche that they make the male characters so extroverted and confident, while the female characters are always portrayed as inexperienced, introverted and unsure of themselves, it's one of the reasons that I don't really like the anime, they always make the character personalities the same and cliche, including Horizons, I want a female character who's like Iris or Sapphire from Adventures.
 
I am 1000% on board for a shy/compassionate/etc boy protagonist.
Kathylikestoread said:
I want a female character who's like Iris or Sapphire from Adventures.
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Well, if we are talking about future wishes too, I would also love more nonbinary coded protagonists and characters in general, since we do not have a lot of those in pokemon media too.
side note: even though they are the least represented, there would of course still be a risk of falling into cliches, precisely because of this- since there is a smaller number of codified archetypes for this type of character, it requires slightly more effort and imagination to make a character that is not caricatural, while still falls into some standard adventure anime tropes.
And the characters in pokemon series do have to fit at least somewhat into certain tropes - Pokemon is an adventure anime aimed mainly towards children and teens. It is what it is.

Kathylikestoread said:
Yes, I agree 100%, it's so cliche that they make the male characters so extroverted and confident, while the female characters are always portrayed as inexperienced, introverted and unsure of themselves,
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The "action girl" or "strong female protagonist" is also a quite well established archetype within adventure/shonen genres. Much less so than the "loud boy" of course. To extremely simplify, the way I see it, there are usually two main types of girls in this genre: some variant of the damsel in distress (this trope i do have a problem with, when it is played straight or overdone), or the girl, that other from her gender, has almost no other culturally "feminine coded" traits (which is 100% cool, but i would simply like more different portrayals as well) [to all writers everywhere: let girls be messy. let them be introverted. let them be extroverted. let them be whatever they want to be!]
The reason Riko stands out to me as a protagonist in this genre, and the reason she might appeal and be relatable to a different audiences that Ash appealed to, is because she is both unsure of herself sometimes AND strong and capable of growth. I would like to see that continued growth.

Of course, that is just my take. to each their own. I have no problem with people not liking a certain character or character archetype or whatever for whatever reason.

PS if someone is looking only for completely original and very deep characters, with no nothingess burgers at all, well, pokemon media in general might not be the most satisfying place to search for that. Sorry.
 
Die-Hard Dragon Devotee said:
To all you Liko fans here/out there in the world, I'm sorry, but......that girl is just a complete and total nothing burger of a character in my opinion. Like.....she just utterly bores me to tears.
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We get it: you don't like girls and only want them to be accessories/second fiddles to the aura farming chad male protagonists or just want them to be masculine-coded so you don't feel like you're losing out on replacing Ash with a female protagonist.

NumberOneSpinelApologist said:
The "action girl" or "strong female protagonist" is also a quite well established archetype within adventure/shonen genres. Much less so than the "loud boy" of course. To extremely simplify, the way I see it, there are usually two main types of girls in this genre: some variant of the damsel in distress (this trope i do have a problem with, when it is played straight or overdone), or the girl, that other from her gender, has almost no other culturally "feminine coded" traits (which is 100% cool, but i would simply like more different portrayals as well)
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To be honest, I do like how Liko and Dot are introverted girls but very different with Liko being more feminine-coded and Dot being more masculine-coded and both are able to hold their own without falling into cliche tropes that you'd see in typical shounen stories.
 
ecargmura said:
We get it: you don't like girls and only want them to be accessories/second fiddles to the aura farming chad male protagonists or just want them to be masculine-coded so you don't feel like you're losing out on replacing Ash with a female protagonist.
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I never said that, nor do I feel that way. Please don't make up false stuff about me.
 
PS if someone is looking only for completely original and very deep characters, with no nothingess burgers at all, well, pokemon media in general might not be the most satisfying place to search for that. Sorry.
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That's why I prefer the manga, Adventures, they have different characters with many different personalities who don't always follow specific tropes, both male and female. Like, there's loud and brash male characters like Black and Sun, and composed and reserved male characters like Blake and X. The same goes with female characters, there's loud and brash female characters like Casey and Y, and composed and reserved female characters like Platinum, Moon and Scarlet.
 
Kathylikestoread said:
That's why I prefer the manga, Adventures, they have different characters with many different personalities who don't always follow specific tropes, both male and female. Like, there's loud and brash male characters like Black and Sun, and composed and reserved male characters like Blake and X. The same goes with female characters, there's loud and brash female characters like Casey and Y, and composed and reserved female characters like Platinum, Moon and Scarlet.
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I should definitely read more of the adventures manga then, I did not read the entirety yet.
 
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