I Can Has Rain? An OU Team

[ShinyFlareon]

It's been quite a while since I tried to make an OU team. My last few have been...well, less than stellar, so I'm a little hesitant. I figured I'd start off with something that seems to be fairly popular recently: a weather team, in this case, Rain Dance.

Changes in Bold
More changes in Italiacs

Areodactyl@Focus Sash
Jolly nature
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-- Rain Dance
-- Taunt
-- Earthquake
-- Double-Edge/Stealth Rock

New lead. Celebi wasn't working out as well as I'd hoped, and Aereodactyl brings some more physical offense to the table as well as being the fastest pokemon in OU able to learn Rain Dance. Earthquake for coverage, and Double-Edge for neutral (and more consistent) damage than Stone Edge. Stealth Rock could go over Double-Edge, but then I'm lost against flying/levitating leads.

Kingdra@Lum Berry
Adamant
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
-- Dragon Dance
-- Outrage
-- Waterfall
-- Yawn

My physical beast. This thing is my answer to Scizor who come in and think that they can freely sweep. How? With Yawn. I think Kingdra is still bulky enough to survive most of Scizor's attacks, especially since it resists or, at worst, takes neutral damage from them, which means it can Yawn away. If Scizor stays in, it falls asleep and isn't guaranteed to kill Kingdra. If it switches, it gives Kingdra a free turn to DD. Since I'm not running Substitute, Lum Berry becomes especially important to prevent status.

Magnezone@Leftovers
Timid
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
-- Magnet Rise
-- Thunder
-- Hidden Power [Grass]
-- Substitute

This guy should scare away most water and steel types that try to switch in. Magnet Rise turns a devastating weakness into an immunity for a few turns, while Thunder and HP Grass let me deal with any water types that switch in. Most Steels are also severely hurt by Thunder. Sub protects him from status. A Timid nature with 216 speed EVs means it'll outrun a lot of things that are only EVd to counter the standard Modest/84 Spe Magnezone.

Manaphy@Damp Rock
Calm
EVs: 240 HP / 164 SpA / 104 SpD
-- Rain Dance
-- Toxic
-- Rest
-- Ice Beam

I've had a few people suggest Manaphy, and since I had a huge Fire weakness in this team before, I figured I'd try it over Jirachi. Manaphy can absorb status thanks to Hydration, which was something I sorely missed before, and can even spread it around a little with Toxic. A bulky set without leftovers may seem odd, but those few extra turns that a Damp Rock will give Rain Dance can make-or-break a match. Besides, when I can heal at will, leftovers seems redundant.

Rotom-W@Damp Rock
Modest
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-- Rain Dance
-- Thunder
-- Hydro Pump
-- Shadow Ball

My special beast and secondary Rain Dance supporter. STAB Thunder paired with Hydro Pump is excellent coverage-wise, and Shadow Ball is another great STAB. Plus, he's not hampered by a Choice item, which I like.

Latias@Leftovers
Timid
EVs:252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
-- Dragon Pulse
-- Wish
-- Protect
-- Thunder Wave

Supporting Latias serves as the second half of the special defensive duo with Manaphy. Wish for team support, Protect in case Latias needs to heal herself, and Thunder Wave to spread more status. The only thing I can think of immune to both Paralysis and Toxic is Steelix, who I shouldn't be seeing anyway.


The main premise of this team is to pave the way for Kingdra or Rotom-W to sweep by way of Rain Dance. The lack of Gyarados, an Electric absorber, or a Water/Ground type like Swampert may be a little surprising, but I think this team could work.

Rate away!

 

[freddie515]

Just out of interest, have you considered OU's latest addition manaphy for this team ?

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Manaphy's OU now? Well, who would it replace and what would it do?

 

[PlatinumDude]

It's been quite a while since I tried to make an OU team. My last few have been...well, less than stellar, so I'm a little hesitant. I figured I'd start off with something that seems to be fairly popular recently: a weather team, in this case, Rain Dance.

Celebi@Focus Sash
Modest
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
-- Stealth Rock
-- Leaf Storm
-- Earth Power
-- U-turn

Celebi as a lead might seem odd, but I saw this set on Smogon and was intrigued by it. Not only can it set up SR, but Leaf Storm and Earth Power provide great checks later in the game to Suicune and Heatran, respectively. U-turn allows me to get out quick if I have to.

Looks good.

Kingdra@Lum Berry
Adamant
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
-- Rain Dance
-- Outrage
-- Waterfall
-- Yawn

Why DD when it has Swift Swim to benefit from the rain? You might need more rain when it ends.

My physical beast. This thing is my answer to Scizor who come in and think that they can freely sweep. How? With Yawn. I think Kingdra is still bulky enough to survive most of Scizor's attacks, especially since it resists or, at worst, takes neutral damage from them, which means it can Yawn away. If Scizor stays in, it falls asleep and isn't guaranteed to kill Kingdra. If it switches, it gives Kingdra a free turn to DD. Since I'm not running Substitute, Lum Berry becomes especially important to prevent status.

Magnezone@Leftovers
Timid
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
-- Magnet Rise
-- Thunder
-- Hidden Power [Grass]
-- Substitute

This guy should scare away most water and steel types that try to switch in. Magnet Rise turns a devastating weakness into an immunity for a few turns, while Thunder and HP Grass let me deal with any water types that switch in. Most Steels are also severely hurt by Thunder. Sub protects him from status. A Timid nature with 216 speed EVs means it'll outrun a lot of things that are only EVd to counter the standard Modest/84 Spe Magnezone.

Jirachi@Damp Rock
Jolly
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
-- Rain Dance
-- Ice Punch
-- U-turn
-- Wish

I...think this is rather self-explanatory. Keep the rain going and U-turn out to someone who can abuse it more. Wish gives some extra support later in the game, and Ice Punch gives me coverage against Dragons. I figured since I have Thunder on both Magnezone and Rotom-W, and they get STAB on it, Jirachi wouldn't need it.

You could replace this with Manaphy, if you want.

Rotom-W@Damp Rock
Modest
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-- Rain Dance
-- Thunder
-- Hydro Pump
-- Shadow Ball

My special beast and secondary Rain Dance supporter. STAB Thunder paired with Hydro Pump is excellent coverage-wise, and Shadow Ball is another great STAB. Plus, he's not hampered by a Choice item, which I like.

Looks good.

Scizor@Damp Rock
Ability: Technician
Careful nature
EVs: ???
-- Rain Dance
-- Knock Off
-- Bullet Punch
-- Bug Bite/Superpower/Brick Break

This Scizor is supposed to be more tertiary Rain Dance support than anything. Knock Off rids annoyances of their items, and with the rain weakening fire type attacks and Scizor's naturally good defense, it should be able to take a hit or two. Bullet Punch and Quick Attack are really just filler; while they don't provide much in the way of coverage, the fact that they're priority moves means that Scizor can focus more on his defense than speed. Careful provides a balance of defenses, somewhat.


The main premise of this team is to pave the way for Kingdra or Rotom-W to sweep by way of Rain Dance. The lack of Gyarados, an Electric absorber, or a Water/Ground type like Swampert may be a little surprising, but I think this team could work.

The only things I'm really worried about is the lack of a cleric and spinner for this team; it's really vulnerable to both status and field effects. I could run Heal Bell on Celebi, but I need almost all of it's attacks. The only thing I think I could put it over would be U-turn. Either way, no one on this team can spin. I had thought about Forretress in Scizor's place, but it can't learn Rain Dance.

Rate away!

Changes in bold

 

[Wiilio]

Why DD when it has Swift Swim to benefit from the rain? You might need more rain when it ends.

Because Kingdra's Attack sorta... sucks. It uses Dragon Dance more for the Attack boost than for the Speed boost when it comes to rain teams.

The team itself seems pretty solid, although I personally wouldn't have 4 Pokemon weak to Fire on the team, even with Rain. Your only fast Rain Dance user is Jirachi, so a fairly speedy Taunt user could stop attempts at setting up the rain. Gyarados could easily outspeed Scizor (80 Speed vs 65), completely wall it, AND Taunt it. That's one down. Your Jirachi also isn't doing much to it either; although Gyarados won't outspeed (Unless it's a DD Taunt user with a DD under its belt), it can still come in, lower the power of all your attacks (Intimidate), AND use Taunt on whatever's coming in (Which will affect ALL of the Pokemon you have, by the way). Plus, Gyarados can use the rain to power up its Waterfall. The way I see it, if Gyarados comes in on Scizor and Dragon Dances as you switch out, you've lost 5/6 team members, and all team members if the rain is falling (Waterfall will probably OHKO Rotom-W, but I'm not sure). While you do have Rotom-W to counter it and other Pokemon that can take a hit and deal one back, a properly played Gyarados will decimate the team.

Aaaaaaand with THAT over... Personally I'd take Focus Sash off of Celebi since it's so bulky. For Scizor, I'd go for Brick Break since the set doesn't have that "hit-and-run" feel.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Because Kingdra's Attack sorta... sucks. It uses Dragon Dance more for the Attack boost than for the Speed boost when it comes to rain teams.

The team itself seems pretty solid, although I personally wouldn't have 4 Pokemon weak to Fire on the team, even with Rain. Your only fast Rain Dance user is Jirachi, so a fairly speedy Taunt user could stop attempts at setting up the rain. Gyarados could easily outspeed Scizor (80 Speed vs 65), completely wall it, AND Taunt it. That's one down. Your Jirachi also isn't doing much to it either; although Gyarados won't outspeed (Unless it's a DD Taunt user with a DD under its belt), it can still come in, lower the power of all your attacks (Intimidate), AND use Taunt on whatever's coming in (Which will affect ALL of the Pokemon you have, by the way). Plus, Gyarados can use the rain to power up its Waterfall. The way I see it, if Gyarados comes in on Scizor and Dragon Dances as you switch out, you've lost 5/6 team members, and all team members if the rain is falling (Waterfall will probably OHKO Rotom-W, but I'm not sure). While you do have Rotom-W to counter it and other Pokemon that can take a hit and deal one back, a properly played Gyarados will decimate the team.

Aaaaaaand with THAT over... Personally I'd take Focus Sash off of Celebi since it's so bulky. For Scizor, I'd go for Brick Break since the set doesn't have that "hit-and-run" feel.

I hate to point out the obvious Wiil, but Gyarados' base speed is 81. It's true that base 95 Attack is, uh, mediocre.

I agree with you that Celebi should ditch Focus Sash. And with Scizor running Brick Break. I really don't know about Gyarados, though.

 

[freddie515]

Id recommend the following kingdra set
Modest @ Leftovers 252SpAtk/248Hp/8Spe
- Rain Dance
- Surf
- Dragon Pulse
- Hp Electric

My favourite set ever, raindance then sweep. EV's may be strange but it makes it incredibly bulky, the 8 Spe is for outrunning adament scarfed heracross and co. under the rain. Hp electric always 2Hkos gyrados and thats the only reason its there (excepy maybe empoleon). Surf & DP hit everything but empoleon & shedinja for neutral damage.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys.

@PlatinumDude: Manaphy sounds tempting, but aside from being able to absorb status, what does it do that Jirachi can't? The only other thing I see is that it gets Ice Beam over Ice Punch, but since Steel actually resists Dragon, I'm not so sure if the trade in power will be an issue.

@Wiil: I didn't realize Gyarados was much of an issue...I had thought Magnezone might be able to come in and deal with him, since he's packing Thunder as well. Perhaps I should stick Jolteon in there somewhere? Even with a DD, I can't see Gyarados outspeeding Jolteon, unless it's got a few DDs.

@freddie515: While that looks like a pretty good set, Kingdra was intended to be a physical force on this team. If circumstances arise that I need to change that, I'll consider that set.

 

[Wiilio]

PlatinumDude: I'm not exactly seeing your point. If you're still, in part, referring to Kingdra, then you're comparing apples to oranges (I'm not saying they're total opposites; apples and oranges are both fruit). Gyarados wants the Speed boost more than the Attack boost, since its Attack is (iirc) 125. Then, after the Speed boost, it will outspeed more, meaning that it can effectively Taunt more things successfully. Kingdra, on the other hand, can't really effectively sweep a team with 95 base Attack, even with a +Atk nature. That's why it values the Attack boost of Dragon Dance quite a bit. Also, the Speed boost from Dragon Dance means that not only does it benefit from the rain, but it can also work independently from it. It is important that a weather team can work without the weather, because that weather might be taken away.

Edo-kun: It's not a HUGE problem, but it can be if it's played right. The optimal way to use Gyarados against this team would be to send it in on one of Scizor's attacks (Brick Break, Bullet Punch), Dragon Dance as it switches, and then proceed to sweep. However, if you switch straight to Rotom-W, you should be fine. Keep in mind, though, that the only way to OHKO Gyarados with Rotom-W is to use Thunder. If Thunder misses, Gyarados would 2HKO without Rotom-W getting a shot in.
As for countering it, Zapdos is fairly effective. It's not weak to its STAB move or its next strongest move (Earthquake) but it does have to watch out for Stone Edge (Zapdos would need to be a physically defensive version just to survive) or Ice Fang. Tauntrados (The set I've been referring to) usually runs Waterfall and Return, though, so Zapdos could take care of it. You could also consider Porygon2. With Trace, it bounces back Intimidate, and it can learn Thunder to take it out with ease.

Like I said, not a huge threat unless played correctly.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Oooh, Porygon2...that sounds tempting. I've always wanted to use one.

I'll edit these into my first post, but I think I'm going to stick Heal Bell on Celebi over U-turn and give it...Leftovers, probably. Scizor may just get the boot in favor of Porygon2, but I'll test out the team a little before I outright switch any members (including possibly Manaphy for Jirachi). I'm still not sure about Scizor's EVs, though; should I put emphasis on HP or one of the defenses?

 

[ShinyFlareon]

sorry to double-post, but...mmmmyeah....Fire weakness is sorta killing me. I've had...maybe 6 or 7 matches with this team, and it's been the massive Fire weakness (even with the rain up) that's done me in. Some notes:

-- Scizor's been all but useless (though I have gotten a few lucky Knock Offs on predicted switches). It's way too slow to set up rain or support effectively. Probably getting the boot, hopefully for something that resists fire.

-- Jirachi...probably has to go too. :-/ The more I think about it, Manaphy's Fire resistance is probably more valuable to this team than switching into dragons.

-- Magnezone's worked out well, though the fact that it doesn't outspeed Heatran is a little disappointing...I wasn't really expecting it to, but it would have been nice.

-- Kingdra's also done well, when I can get it set up properly. Still KOed by Scarftran's Dragon Pulse (outsped after 1 DD even with rain up) if it's taken damage before.

-- Celebi...well, it usually doesn't live long enough to Heal Bell, let's put it that way :-/ It's really not been as bulky as I thought, and there have been a few instances (suicide leads, for example) where a Focus Sash would have come in handy.

Anyway...any revised thoughts on the team, given these notes?

 

[Wiilio]

So it sounds like your new team, so far, consists of Manaphy, Magnezone, Kingdra, and Rotom-W. No massive weakness, and your main bases are covered (although you're lacking a bit on the physical side). I recommend a fast physical sweeper that doesn't require setup (fast Choice Bander?). For the last, I'll see what you want to add.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Well, if I'm giving up two out of three of my Rain Dancers, at least one of the replacements has to have a viable Rain Dance set (since Celebi also isn't working out like I'd hoped).

To fill Celebi's role, I'm thinking about Latias. It may not get Heal Bell or Aromatherapy to heal the team of status, but it should fulfill the role of special supporting tank just fine.

For the last slot...I know I probably should have a Choice Band user of some sort, but I still need it to be effective with Rain Dance. Therefore, I propose Areodactyl, the fastest OU capable of learning it. Not only can it Taunt and Rain Dance, but Earthquake and Stone Edge are moves that I've rather missed the presence of. Double-Edge with Rock Head as well would be a good option for things like Clefable (yes, I've run into one, and it screwed me over pretty bad).

 

[PlatinumDude]

PlatinumDude: I'm not exactly seeing your point. If you're still, in part, referring to Kingdra, then you're comparing apples to oranges (I'm not saying they're total opposites; apples and oranges are both fruit). Gyarados wants the Speed boost more than the Attack boost, since its Attack is (iirc) 125. Then, after the Speed boost, it will outspeed more, meaning that it can effectively Taunt more things successfully. Kingdra, on the other hand, can't really effectively sweep a team with 95 base Attack, even with a +Atk nature. That's why it values the Attack boost of Dragon Dance quite a bit. Also, the Speed boost from Dragon Dance means that not only does it benefit from the rain, but it can also work independently from it. It is important that a weather team can work without the weather, because that weather might be taken away.

QUOTE]

Okay, Wiil. Now I get it.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Changes edited into first post.

 

[Wiilio]

I see some interesting changes.

I don't notice any problems right off the bat (Except with a misspelling of Aerodactyl! ).

Isn't Ninjask OU? That makes Aerodactyl second fastest in OU.

 

[PlatinumDude]

About Manaphy...

The lack of STAB hurts. I don't know why you went with Ice Beam.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

@Wiil: Ninjask is OU, but I think Aerodactyl is just going to be a lot more useful for the role I need it to fill.

@PlatinumDude: I picked Ice Beam over Surf for sheer coverage. Hydro Pump and Waterfall on Rotom-w and Kingdra (respectively) should be fine for my purposes.

Well, I'm unable to test this incarnation of the team out at the moment. ShoddyBattle says that Manaphy is banned in the standard tier. I really don't know why, but it's rather frustrating...

 

[freddie515]

Manaphys back in ubers now -_-

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Manaphys back in ubers now -_-

Of course it is...*sigh*

Well, I know it's a rather odd choice, but what about Dewgong? Same Hydration ability, learns Rest, will get STAB on Ice Beam, and still learns Rain Dance. Thoughts?