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If our hero(es) were to win a tournament, how should it be handled? v.2

matt0044

matt0044

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Before any of you get to reading, be sure to read EVERYTHING and think before replying. In addition, don't type brief replies that are light on details such as, "No, I don't (such and such)." I want to read your honest thoughts and know that you took EVERYTHING I said here into account before replying to this thread. Of course, read it when you have time to kill because, trust me, there’s a LOT to talk about given how controversial this topic can be. Then again, the Pokemon Anime is always brimming with controversy, isn’t it?

With that said, let's begin.

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You've all heard it before and plenty have said it before on these forums: Ash, May and Dawn can't win a League/GF because (insert bulls**t reason here). This has bothered me to no end. As flat as Ash and co. are as characters, are we NOT suppose to root for them as fans of the Anime?

But here's something that's a bit different.

Suppose that Ash was planned to win a Pokemon League from the start (Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, you name it)? Suppose May was meant to win the Grand Festival in Hoenn or Kanto? Suppose Dawn was meant to win the Sinnoh Grand Festival?

Now, if all those events came to pass, how do YOU think the writers of the series should handle the victory(ies)? How should they plan out the storyline and the character development from start to finish, if they planned on our so-called heroes winning the tournament they were aiming for?

In short, what factors and character developments do YOU think would help Ash win one or more Pokemon Leagues and May and Dawn win their Grand Festivals?

Be sure to think hard about this as I want to hear your honest thoughts.

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Now, believe it or not, I can see the future and predict that some of you will type responses that I’ve seen time and again. So let’s get out our Crystal Balls and see what sort of responses I’ll get so I can respond to them before I get them.

Some will say that Ash should get overconfident after winning a League, leading him to get mauled by a Trainer. I have to disagree. If Ash were to receive good character development, he should learn lessons in humility during his journey and NOT right after it. Like he wins his first Gym Battle and he thinks he’s hot stuff before he gets a run for his money in the episode follow said Gym victory. He should learn that cockiness and arrogance are big No-Nos early on in his journey.

Others will attempt to excuse Ash’s loss in the Indigo League, May’s loss in the Hoenn GF and Dawn’s loss in the Sinnoh GF by saying that it was their first times. Yes, it was their first time but that doesn’t mean that they CAN’T win on their first time. The writers should've developed them in time for the league/GF where their growth, experience and knowledge as Trainers/Coordinators culminates in them winning the tournament (in a non-bulls**t way, of course) and taking their first steps into becoming the best Trainer/Coordinator in the world. We should NOT have to see them fail and be okay with it.

Also, a thought occurred to me not to long ago: in realistic terms, a trainer CAN win a Pokemon League Tournament the first time around if he train his Pokemon hard enough for years until he or she is more than ready for the League. There are probably over 60 participants in each league tournament and the competition tends to vary. There are experienced Trainers who competed in Leagues before and Trainers who are relatively new to Leagues but who says that Trainers competing in a League for the first time can't come out on top. It might not seem "right" but who says that it can't happen?

Unfortunately for the Anime, they can't exactly have Ash spend THAT much time in a region so obviously they have the League shortly after Ash gets his 8th badge. Though why they can't do a simple Time Skip to years/months later at the league is beyond me.

Finally, and I won’t be specific, more will treat Ash and co. like real life people and disregard the fact that their actions and developments are determined by the writers, actual real life people. I’ll leave it at that.

There are probably more responses but I’d rather not take too much time doing so. We'll deal with them as they come.

So, fire away. Disagree all you want but I’m sticking to my own thoughts and opinions like glue.
 
Well Ash should be doing stuff what we do after we beat the game catching and training Pokemon. He should seek out what the pokemon he adds to his ranks instead of running in to them. The Champion League should be the focus of the series. Ash should be forced to study different battling styles and seek out the Pokemon needed to defeat them. But he has to train his pokes before he can use them against league winners. Every opponent should have a saga of preparation. Occasionally he should take long training breaks in the wilderness like Bruno did. There should be crises that Ash should have to deal with. Also the Champion league should have a clan based system for non elite 4 non regional champion members. Just to make things more interesting.
 
I agree to some length. It is possible to win a tournament on your first try, but you would have to either be a prodigy, or like you said, train for years. Not that many people have that kind of patience, it seems rather unusual. If I wanted a trainer to win in their tournament, I agree they would have to learn a lot of hard lessons, and for those lessons to pervade in all of their training.

Ash in particular has a really significant problem with recklessness. I wanted them to deal with this in DP, but they didn't. Evidently, the writers feel that his recklessness is part of his real talent: to think outside the box. The only thing here is I'm convinced that Ash thinks the box doesn't exist, which is both a good and bad thing. (It's good because he is not limited by norms, and bad because it makes him forgo common sense) This is the most apparent thing that needs to be fixed for him. The writers already did a good job of curing Ash of a lot of his idiocy, so that could play out in a similar fashion, although I would add a greater sense of him adding the things he learns together and figuring out the greater strategy of pokemon. Of course, due to the nature of how battles tend to go, strategy is not enough, one must also have the creativity and focus to adapt on the fly. I think it is possible to be both smart about how one uses their pokemon AND be clever enough to know when it is time to do something different. This should be satisfactory to attain enough skill to face even the E4 and Champion, even though I have no precedence to go on for this matter.

As for May and Dawn, the Grand Festival appears to be even easier to win on your first try if Dawn is any indication. But, it is also a different challenge from a tournament since defeating your opponent is not necessarily your goal, just to outperform them. Knowing how to properly use attacks helps, though. Combinations appear to be of massive importance, so that is one thing to focus on. Here, it may actually be favorable to forgo anything you know about pokemon and believe that anything is possible. True, type alignments still apply, so you would need to be wary of that and find ways around it. Possibly by combining with another type of move. Unfortunately, the point system is inconsistent as the anime portrays it. I'm not sure if this kind of thing would benefit from a more uniform set of criteria, though. The most prevalent lesson of Contests is to have confidence in yourself, but not so much that you take it for granted. I feel that Dawn already did this well enough. Not much would need to be done here, but it would help if someone with a stronger personality was applied to it.
 
Samurott said:
I agree to some length. It is possible to win a tournament on your first try, but you would have to either be a prodigy, or like you said, train for years. Not that many people have that kind of patience, it seems rather unusual. If I wanted a trainer to win in their tournament, I agree they would have to learn a lot of hard lessons, and for those lessons to pervade in all of their training.
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If you ask me, Ash should've gone to Pokemon Trainer School and even practiced battling prior to the series. I personally think that Black from the Black & White chapter of Pokemon Special is what Ash should've been from the start and then some in that Black actually does his research.

I wonder: how would Ash's development have gone if he were to win the Indigo League? The show was suppose to last 18 months with stories in the Kanto region.
 
Oh, in that case, then yes, he should not have started as a total idiot.

As for his development if he continued regardless of winning a league, I wager he would become mentor to a new trainer.
 
My earlier post referred to what should happen after he wins which I thought the thread was about but I guess it's vaguer?

Anyways I'm Okay with Ash not winning the Sinnoh league. What it should be like is a journey like the Sinnoh league but with a little more time to make it believable. Winning the Unova league would be okay if they handled it like they did DP, but for Ash to win now would be BS with a side of fries. So if they give Ash competence and real rival I'd be cool with him winning in Gen 6 with Gen 8 being the latest i'd be cool with. Then they can run the show like I mentioned above and give a spin off to introduce the new regions.

Coordinator can just keep going after they win. And I guess if their journey is genuine it is OK.
 
If by some chance he would win a tournament, he'd probably turn down the offer to battle/become one of the Elite four for that region (or if he does accept, it'd on account that he can beat them, which he won't).
Once Ash returns to Pallet, he fights and ties with Gary again (maybe), learns of a new region with more Pokémon, sees Ho-Oh flying that way, figures he still has much to learn, and decides to follow, just like the last few times.

Abridged version: Win, split up the group, go home, go to a new region with Pikachu again.
 
Miar said:
If by some chance he would win a tournament, he'd probably turn down the offer to battle/become one of the Elite four for that region (or if he does accept, it'd on account that he can beat them, which he won't).
Once Ash returns to Pallet, he fights and ties with Gary again (maybe), learns of a new region with more Pokémon, sees Ho-Oh flying that way, figures he still has much to learn, and decides to follow, just like the last few times.

Abridged version: Win, split up the group, go home, go to a new region with Pikachu again.
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WHAT ABOUT THE CHAMPION LEAGUE DUDE! A spinoff series can take care of the new regions.
 
Miar said:
As I said: He declines or he loses badly to show that he's still nowhere near the greatest yet.
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Just cause he lost to the elite four doesn't mean he's out right. I thought he gets a permanent place to battle other league winners it not like all he wins is a single shot at the elite 4. right? Or it is possible I misunderstood what the champion league is. Or maybe it was not revealed.
 
matt0044 said:
Care to elaborate? I speficially asked for you guys to NOT answer with brief responses if you can take the time out of your busy lives.
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It would be handled the same as Nozomi's Grand Festival victory. I don't see any more attention or different kind of storylines for their victories.
 
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martianmister said:
I don't see any more attention or different kind of storylines for their victories.
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I was talking about the character developments our hero(es) would go through on their journey that would all culminate in the Pokemon League/Grand Festival, resulting in them winning.

Zoey's character barely got development and throughout DP, she was very bland and was too professional. I'd say she was borderline Mary Sue. Her character could've worked as a mentor for Dawn whom in turn uses all she knows to defeat Zoey in the GF finals. Unfortunately, it apparently never occurred to the writers.
 
Please note: The thread is from 15 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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