If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it is?

[Instrutilus]

Now, it has been officially confirmed the activities in Generation 1 and 3 (R/B/G/Y and Ru/S/E) occur at the same time. However, the National Dex lists the Johto Pokémon as if the events of Generation 2 occured already. If they were simultaneous, then you'd think the Hoenn Dex listings would come before the Johto Dex listings. Care to provide your theories on this?

My theory goes like this;

(Please note, this is using Generation 1, so there is no Sevii Island event.)

Red went through the Kanto region, completing the Kanto Dex as he did before becoming Champion. Now, even in the remakes, there isn't any indication of a major weather clash, so therefore, if the Kanto Dex is the original, then the Hoenn Dex would be calibrated for the Hoenn Region. This would take a small amount of time, so thus, the Legendary Clash incident would probably have occured after the storyline ended and thus wouldn't be seen during Red's journey.

Now, during Brendan/May's journey, they had most of the Hoenn Dex completed when the Legendary Clash occured. Once the Clash ceased, Brendan/May continued on to the League, but due to the fact if anomalies in the weather occur, Pokémon, like animals, move away from anomalies in the weather, this resulted in several species of Pokémon moving away from the Hoenn and other nearby regions, some nesting in and perminatly remaining in other regions such as Johto and Kanto.

During the migrations, the scientific community decided to hold off the Pokédex listings for at least 3 years, in order to allow the Pokémon to settle back down, as some Pokémon were known to become restless in major incidents, as they had discovered during the war Lt. Surge has been mentioned participating in.
During this time, Red forfeited his champion position to Lance due to being restless himself and travelled to the neighbouring Johto's Mt. Silver after hearing of the dangerous Pokémon.

After the 3 year mark, Gold/Crystal was sent by Professor Elm to pick up a Pokémon Egg, as Egg were notoriously hard to come by, and the only egg possessed by a trainer had hatched during the Legendary Clash (the Wynaut egg), thus was unobserved, and no other egg could be found due to the Pokémon hiding them too well, the two eggs only being found by chance.

Since the three-year Hold off had ceased, Professor Oak jumped at the chance to have a trainer fill it out, and gave Gold/Crystal the New Pokédex, sending them out. The same occured in Hoenn and Sinnoh, and after the Pokémon habitats had been confirmed, Oak listed all Pokédex listings he had, using Kanto's original listings as a base and adding the New Pokédex listings on, removing those already on, and the Hoenn Dex listings once he recieved them.

He then programmed an extension to the Pokédexes, which listed the Pokémon in the Nationally-confirmed order, or the National Dex Listings. After updating all the current Dexes and sending the updated program to Birch in Hoenn, Oak then travelled to Sinnoh and updated the Sinnoh Dex personally, before relaxing in his cottage home.

...Of course, this is just a theory, anything could've happened to cause the dex listings to be how they are. I'd like to hear your opinions and theories on this.

 

[Raine Caulwell]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

How about, they just listed them in order of the games, and they don't actually put them in order of creation/discovery. It's like asking why Mew (151) is after Mewtwo (150). After all, they had to know about mew and discover a fossil for them to make Mewtwo, so why isn't Mew 150 and Mewtwo 151?

 

[Instrutilus]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

How about, they just listed them in order of the games, and they don't actually put them in order of creation/discovery. It's like asking why Mew (151) is after Mewtwo (150). After all, they had to know about mew and discover a fossil for them to make Mewtwo, so why isn't Mew 150 and Mewtwo 151?

I recall this one, it's the Pokédex adding the enteries itself.

Since Mew isn't exactly a commonly accepted Pokémon and probably a controversy amongst the scientific community, Oak probably programmed the Dex to only add a Mew entry after all the already confirmed Pokémon in the Dex and when it itself has been caught, one eventually being caught by Red or another trainer.

Red encounter Mewtwo first, however, and Oak had programmed the Dex to add entries of unknown Pokemon in the region (I doubt he'd know ALL Pokémon in the region, so why not have the Dex do it on the spot?). Since Mewtwo was caught first, the Dex registered it before Mew, then added Mew when Red had caught it.

Besides, why is Pichu listed after Pikachu? Same reason, a specimen hadn't been caught in the region so wasn't registered before it's evolutions.

 

[AndyPKMN]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

Why shouldn't they be listed the way they are? Regardless of the chronological order of generations, there's nothing saying that Generation II Pokemon didn't exist at the time of Generations I and III. The Pokemon released in each generation are only new to us, remember. They've existed in the Pokemon world the whole time.

 

[Raine Caulwell]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

Why shouldn't they be listed the way they are? Regardless of the chronological order of generations, there's nothing saying that Generation II Pokemon didn't exist at the time of Generations I and III. The Pokemon released in each generation are only new to us, remember. They've existed in the Pokemon world the whole time.

This.

 

[TPJerematic]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

Now, it has been officially confirmed the activities in Generation 1 and 3 (R/B/G/Y and Ru/S/E) occur at the same time.

Wait when did this happen?

 

[Instrutilus]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

Why shouldn't they be listed the way they are? Regardless of the chronological order of generations, there's nothing saying that Generation II Pokemon didn't exist at the time of Generations I and III. The Pokemon released in each generation are only new to us, remember. They've existed in the Pokemon world the whole time.

Yes, but the whole point of this was for the fun of it and so I could see the varying theories people have as to why it's like that.

Wait when did this happen?

Something about the remakes and one of the developers saying they did, can't quite recall where I read it.

 

[Raine Caulwell]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

Wait when did this happen?

If you notice, there are time machines for trading in G/S to R/B/Y. In R/S/E and FR/LG, there is no time machine and there is direct trading In fact, in FR/LG, you have to help set up the satalite link between Kanto and Hoenn to enable trading between regions. To trade from R/S/E and FR/LG to D/P/Pt, you basically put your pokemon into storage boxes and it's recovered by someone else two years later in D/P/Pt. However, trading between D/P/Pt and HG/SS is direct. There are no fancy tricks. So we can safely assume that games made within the same generation take place at approximately the same time.

 

[TPJerematic]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

Something about the remakes and one of the developers saying they did, can't quite recall where I read it.

Well unless you can back up that claim then it's dubious.


Anyone else hear this? and got a link or something

 

[Instrutilus]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

Well unless you can back up that claim then it's dubious.


Anyone else hear this? and got a link or something

Details in the Hoenn- and Kanto-based games reveal that the storyline of Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald is contemporaneous with that of FireRed and LeafGreen (and due to this, contemporaneous with Generation I as well), placing Generation III three years before Generation II and Generation IV, themselves contemporaneous.

Well, that's as far as I can find without running through a few thousand Pokémon pages on the internet.

 

[TTEchidna]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

Remember in Gen II? They said the Steel-type was "newly discovered". Doesn't seem so newly discovered when you've got Byron having trained them for years.

Face it, Generation I was made when there were only 151 Pokémon. They had no idea how popular the games would become or that in 12 years there'd be 493 of them. So game text reflected this. Notice how much game text changes between RGBY and FRLG. Most of it refers to the Pokédex. And keep this in mind: Magnemite and Magneton are Steel-type Pokémon, and Bite's a Dark-type move, in FRLG. Newly-discovered type my eye.

Generation II was all about the newness. It was a sequel at heart, which RSE and DPPt tried to shake off. Notice how DPPt makes neutral references to Hoenn. Gen II referenced Gen I concretely as "this happened in the last games but it's different now". As Gen III and Gen IV show, though, things have always been the way they are in the remakes. Game events are referenced, but not game mechanics.

Although, there is the tiny reference... In Goldenrod's Pokémon center, one guy says that it was once said there were 151 Pokémon even in HGSS. But he doesn't claim there are "now" 251 (which would be a lie anyway, there's 256 in the Jdex). He says there's 493.

So here's the thing. RGBY and GSC never happened. RS never happened. DP never happened. The canon is FRLG, HGSS, E, and Pt.

And Celio says in FRLG "you can now trade with Trainers in the Hoenn region", not "you can now trade with Trainers in the future!" Yes, Colosseum and XD happen five years apart, but you can't exactly release two games that occur at exactly the same time in a region unless it's got the same protagonist. And a "third version" of Colosseum would just piss everyone off. So they went Gen II on its ass.

 

[Silktree]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

The canon is FRLG, HGSS, E, and Pt.

For now. HGSS don't even reference anything that happened in FRLG but didn't in RGBY (whereas FRLG foreshadowed the revelation regarding Giovanni and his son).

 

[Falconwing]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

Why does the natdex order matter? We're talking about the device that states that Shedinja sucks out your soul if you stare into the hole in its back.

 

[TTEchidna]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

For now. HGSS don't even reference anything that happened in FRLG but didn't in RGBY (whereas FRLG foreshadowed the revelation regarding Giovanni and his son).

Considering HGSS doesn't feature the Sevii Islands, where there would be people who talked about Red's acts of heroism three years ago, of course not.

Everything that involved the loss of areas in GSC, though, has been undone. Viridian Forest is there. Cerulean Cave is there. The Seafoam Islands have a full cave. Heck, the Safari Zone is technically accessible, even. Fuchsia City's music even comes back! Those areas and music, I bet, would have been in Gen II, but the crappy GB/GBC cartridges couldn't hold all the areas.

Still doesn't explain why Mt. Moon and Seafoam use Johto cave music in HGSS, though.

 

[Silktree]

Re: If the activities of Gens 1 and 3 were simultaneous, why is the NDex set how it i

Considering HGSS doesn't feature the Sevii Islands, where there would be people who talked about Red's acts of heroism three years ago, of course not.

That's really the point. It is hard to consider FRLG and HGSS as part of the same canon when the latter are devoid of any references to the Sevii Islands. At the same time, it is obvious that these sets of remakes are meant to be part of the same canon, but something is missing.