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If you could trim Johto to make Pokemon Johto Better.

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Pokemaster Justin

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If you could trim some or hell a lot of episodes out of Johto what episodes would you obmit so that the story still flows well but is missing the painful meaningless fillers. Keep in mind some fillers were good but which ones would you personally cut out to trim the season

Here is Johto:

115 Don't Touch That 'dile
116 The Double Trouble Header
117 A Sappy Ending
118 Roll On, Pokemon
119 Illusion Confusion
120 Flower Power
121 Spinarak Attack
122 Snubbull Snobbery
123 The Little Big Horn
124 The Chikorita Rescue
125 Once in a Blue Moon
126 Whistle Stop
S3 Slowking's Day
127 Ignorance is Blissey
128 A Bout With Sprout
129 Fighting Flyer With Fire
130 For Crying Out Loud
131 Tanks A Lot!
132 Charizard's Burning Ambitions
133 Grin To Win!
134 Chikorita's Big Upset
135 Foul Weather Friends
136 The Superhero Secret
137 Mild 'n Wooly
138 Wired For Battle
139 Good 'Quil Hunting
140 A Shadow Of A Drought
141 Going Apricorn!
142 Gettin' The Bugs Out
143 A Farfetch'd Tale
144 Tricks Of The Trade
145 The Fire-ring Squad
146 No Big Woop
147 Tunnel Vision
148 Hour of the Houndour
149 The Totodile Duel
150 Hot Matches
151 Love, Totodile Style
152 Fowl Play
153 Forest Grumps
154 The Psychic Side Kicks
155 The Fortune Hunters

156 A Goldenrod Opportunity
157 A Dairy Tale Ending
158 Air Time
159 The Bug Stops Here
160 Type Casting
161 Fossil Fools
162 Carrying On
163 Hassle in the Castle
164 Two Hits and a Miss
165 A Hot Water Battle
166 Hook, Line and Stinker
167 Beauty and the Breeder
168 A Better Pill to Swallow
169 Power Play!
170 Mountain Time
171 Wobbu-Palooza
172 Imitation Confrontation
173 The Trouble With Snubbull
174 Ariados, Amigos!
175 Wings 'n Things!
S4 Mewtwo Returns
176 The Grass Route
177 The Apple Corps
178 Houndoom's Special Delivery
179 A Ghost of a Chance
180 From Ghost to Ghost
181 Trouble's Brewing!
182 All That Glitters
183 The Light Fantastic
184 UnBEARable
185 Moving Pictures
186 Spring Fever
187 Freeze Frame
188 The Stolen Stones!
189 The Dunsparse Deception
190 The Wayward Wobbuffet
191 Sick Daze
192 Ring Masters
193 The Poke Spokesman
194 Control Freak!
195 The Art of Pokemon
196 The Heartbreak of Brock
197 Current Events
198 Turning Over A New Bayleef
199 Doin' What Comes Natu-rally
200 The Balloon Blow Up
201 The Screen Actor's Guilt
202 Right On, Rhydon!
203 The Kecleon Caper
204 The Joy of Water Pokemon
205 Got Miltank?
206 Fight for the Light
207 Machoke, Machoke Man
208 Around The Whirlpool
209 Fly Me To The Moon
210 Takin' It On The Chinchou!
211 The Corsola Caper
212 Mantine Overboard!
213 Octillery The Outcast!
214 Dueling Heroes
215 The Perfect Match
216 Plant It Now...Diglett Later
217 Hi Ho Silver...Away!
218 The Mystery is History!
219 A Parent Trapped
220 A Promise is a Promise
221 Throwing In the Noctowl
222 Nerves of Steelix
223 Bulbasaur...The Ambassador
224 Espeon Not Included!
225 For Ho-oh the Bells Toll
226 Extreme Pokemon
227 An Egg-Sighting Adventure
228 Hatching a Plan
229 Dues and Don'ts
230 Just Waiting On A Friend
231 A Tyrogue Full of Trouble
232 Xatu the Future
233 Talkin' 'Bout an Evolution
234 Rage of Innocence
235 As Cold as Pryce
236 Nice Pryce Baby!
237 Whichever Way the Wind Blows
238 Some Like It Hot
239 Hocus Pokemon
240 As Clear As Crystal
241 Same Old Song And Dance
242 Enlighten Up!
243 Will The Real Oak Please Stand Up?
244 Wish Upon A Star Shape
245 Outrageous Fortunes!
246 One Trick Phony!
247 I Politoed Ya So!
248 The Ice Cave BANNED
249 Beauty is Skin Deep
250 Fangs for Nothin'
251 Great Bowls of Fire!
252 Better Eight Than Never
253 Why? Wynaut!
254 Just Add Water
255 Lapras of Luxury
256 Hatch Me If You Can
257 Entei at Your Own Risk
258 A Crowning Achievement
259 Here's Lookin' At You, Elekid
260 You're A Star, Larvitar!
261 Address Unown
262 Mother of All Battles
263 Pop Goes the Sneasel
264 A Claim to Flame
265 Love, Pokemon Style
266 Tie One On!
267 The Ties That Bind
268 Can't Beat The Heat!
269 Playing with Fire!
270 Johto Photo Finish
271 Gotta Catch Ya Later
 
I think it would have been better if Johto was only about 90-100 episodes long. The extra 50 episodes was ridiculous. I'm not going to really pick the ones out but its obvious which of those eps should have never been made.

Johto being a little longer than Kanto would have been fine, they spent too many fillers just introducing new Pokemon one at a time that nobody really cared for.

Of course the length wasn't really Johto's only problem, its other problems was the lack of development with Ash's Johto Pokemon and the lack of overall character development for the humans. I really feel like I barely got to know the Johto team because Ash rarely used them and they got so little screentime. There are tons of eps where they don't even come out of their Pokeballs at all. To think how memorable Bulbasaur/Squirtle/Charizard were and how the Johto team never measured up to their status at all.

Gary only appearing for 3 episodes prior to the league was also lame, why didn't they have him appear more? The Ash/Gary rivalry felt like it barely existed this season because Gary hardly ever showed up. Of course they should have done more with Misty too, but we've covered that so many times now. They should have had Togepi evolve back here so she wasn't holding the egg for this entire time. The lack of character development this season really hurt it, it honestly seemed like the only character who changed whatsoever was Gary...and that was not until the league eps.

Of course some better things would be to introduce the red-haired rival from GSC, he really should have been in this season. He could have made it so much better. Johto had a lot of wasted potential and they could have done so much more back then.
 
I made a topic like this once before. and it only got one response ><. Looks like its no longer on the forum.

The episodes I would have cut would be...
120 Flower Power
121 Spinarak Attack
126 Whistle Stop
131 Tanks A Lot!
133 Grin To Win!
135 Foul Weather Friends
137 Mild 'n Wooly
146 No Big Woop
148 Hour of the Houndour
154 The Psychic Side Kicks
160 Type Casting
162 Carrying On
168 A Better Pill to Swallow
170 Mountain Time
175 Wings 'n Things!
177 The Apple Corps
178 Houndoom's Special Delivery
182 All That Glitters
183 The Light Fantastic
184 UnBEARable
188 The Stolen Stones!
189 The Dunsparse Deception
193 The Poke Spokesman
195 The Art of Pokemon
199 Doin' What Comes Natu-rally
200 The Balloon Blow Up
201 The Screen Actor's Guilt
202 Right On, Rhydon!
203 The Kecleon Caper
204 The Joy of Water Pokemon
205 Got Miltank?
210 Takin' It On The Chinchou!
231 A Tyrogue Full of Trouble
232 Xatu the Future
237 Whichever Way the Wind Blows
239 Hocus Pokemon
247 I Politoed Ya So!
258 A Crowning Achievement

so my version of Johto would be 38 episodes shorter.
 
As much as I loved Johto, the first part of Johto was awful, aside from the Charizard thing
(if I could make Johto better aside from trimming, I'd give Falkner and Bugsy more episodes, Gary more episodes, more old characters coming back during Masterquest, Richie being in the Pokemon League and... that's all I can think of right now

The ones in bold are what I haven't seen yet

115 Don't Touch That 'dile
116 The Double Trouble Header
117 A Sappy Ending
119 Illusion Confusion
122 Snubbull Snobbery
123 The Little Big Horn
124 The Chikorita Rescue
S3 Slowking's Day
127 Ignorance is Blissey
128 A Bout With Sprout
129 Fighting Flyer With Fire
130 For Crying Out Loud
131 Tanks A Lot!
132 Charizard's Burning Ambitions
134 Chikorita's Big Upset
135 Foul Weather Friends
136 The Superhero Secret
137 Mild 'n Wooly
138 Wired For Battle
139 Good 'Quil Hunting
140 A Shadow Of A Drought
141 Going Apricorn!
142 Gettin' The Bugs Out
143 A Farfetch'd Tale
144 Tricks Of The Trade
145 The Fire-ring Squad
147 Tunnel Vision
148 Hour of the Houndour
149 The Totodile Duel
150 Hot Matches
152 Fowl Play
153 Forest Grumps
155 The Fortune Hunters

156 A Goldenrod Opportunity
157 A Dairy Tale Ending
158 Air Time
159 The Bug Stops Here
160 Type Casting
161 Fossil Fools
163 Hassle in the Castle
164 Two Hits and a Miss
166 Hook, Line and Stinker
167 Beauty and the Breeder
168 A Better Pill to Swallow
169 Power Play!
170 Mountain Time
171 Wobbu-Palooza
172 Imitation Confrontation
173 The Trouble With Snubbull
174 Ariados, Amigos!
S4 Mewtwo Returns
176 The Grass Route
177 The Apple Corps
178 Houndoom's Special Delivery
179 A Ghost of a Chance
180 From Ghost to Ghost
181 Trouble's Brewing!
182 All That Glitters
183 The Light Fantastic
184 UnBEARable
185 Moving Pictures
186 Spring Fever
187 Freeze Frame
188 The Stolen Stones!
189 The Dunsparse Deception
190 The Wayward Wobbuffet
191 Sick Daze
192 Ring Masters
193 The Poke Spokesman
194 Control Freak!
196 The Heartbreak of Brock
197 Current Events
198 Turning Over A New Bayleef
199 Doin' What Comes Natu-rally
200 The Balloon Blow Up
201 The Screen Actor's Guilt
203 The Kecleon Caper
204 The Joy of Water Pokemon
205 Got Miltank?
206 Fight for the Light
207 Machoke, Machoke Man
208 Around The Whirlpool
209 Fly Me To The Moon
210 Takin' It On The Chinchou!
211 The Corsola Caper
212 Mantine Overboard!
214 Dueling Heroes
215 The Perfect Match
217 Hi Ho Silver...Away!
218 The Mystery is History!
219 A Parent Trapped
220 A Promise is a Promise
222 Nerves of Steelix
223 Bulbasaur...The Ambassador
224 Espeon Not Included!
225 For Ho-oh the Bells Toll
226 Extreme Pokemon
227 An Egg-Sighting Adventure
228 Hatching a Plan
229 Dues and Don'ts
230 Just Waiting On A Friend
232 Xatu the Future
233 Talkin' 'Bout an Evolution
234 Rage of Innocence
235 As Cold as Pryce
236 Nice Pryce Baby!
238 Some Like It Hot
239 Hocus Pokemon
240 As Clear As Crystal
241 Same Old Song And Dance
242 Enlighten Up!
243 Will The Real Oak Please Stand Up?
244 Wish Upon A Star Shape
245 Outrageous Fortunes!
246 One Trick Phony!
247 I Politoed Ya So!
248 The Ice Cave BANNED
249 Beauty is Skin Deep
250 Fangs for Nothin'
251 Great Bowls of Fire!
252 Better Eight Than Never
253 Why? Wynaut!
254 Just Add Water
255 Lapras of Luxury
256 Hatch Me If You Can
257 Entei at Your Own Risk
259 Here's Lookin' At You, Elekid
260 You're A Star, Larvitar!
261 Address Unown
262 Mother of All Battles
263 Pop Goes the Sneasel
264 A Claim to Flame
265 Love, Pokemon Style
266 Tie One On!
267 The Ties That Bind
268 Can't Beat The Heat!
269 Playing with Fire!
270 Johto Photo Finish
271 Gotta Catch Ya Later

Honestly, a lot of these episodes that you guys think are worthless episodes are a lot fewer in between than you'd think.
 
I would cut a good few episodes, but there were actually a lot of fillers in Johto that I really REALLY liked. Even if they didn't have enough character development or didn't have a gym battle, some were still just good episodes, like Houndoom's Special Delivery, for example. A lot of people whine about it, but I thought it was CUTE and nice to showcase Houndoom as something besides "RAWR I belong to a mediocre trainer and/or villian and I'm gonna spit fire at you".

Also, I would keep all of the Team Rocket centric episodes. Team Rocket (the organization, not JJM) got more love in Johto than they did in any other season, and I loved it.
 
A lot of fillers in Johto were REALLY enjoyable. Many eps of it were just classic, like "Tanks a lot". Then, some relate to games, like "A Farfetch'd Tale". Sure, some eps could be skipped. But in long-term plan it'd lead to Orange Islands Version Two or something like that.

There's a lot to trim off Indigo League to make it more enjoyable...
 
Adamant said:
It was boring, and nothing happened. One of my least favorite episodes in the entire series.
Click to expand...

That's your opinion, but just because it didn't have much to do with the human characters doesn't mean nothing happened. They showcased Houndoom. Togepi did something besides sit and go "preeeee!" while clutched to Misty's chest. If I recall correctly, Raikou made a cameo in the episode. It was what a filler episode was supposed to be.

Feh, it's just as enjoyable as the over-hyped Pikachu shorts.
 
Like others have said, the biggest issue with Johto was the lack of character development. Many of those fillers could have been improved on by adding that plot detail. It's what made Hot Matches unique in that it showed Ash training Cydaquil, something at that point he rarely did. Brock did next to nothing, aside from The Little Big Horn and the Zubat-Golbat-Crobat arc, and other than the Whirl Cup saga and "mentoring" Sakura, Misty didn't really have a chance to shine.

That said, here are the episodes I feel should have been either expanded on or eliminated altogether:

120 Flower Power
S3 Slowking's Day
133 Grin To Win!
135 Foul Weather Friends
136 The Superhero Secret
137 Mild 'n Wooly
146 No Big Woop
147 Tunnel Vision
148 Hour of the Houndour
151 Love, Totodile Style
153 Forest Grumps
154 The Psychic Side Kicks
161 Fossil Fools
162 Carrying On
164 Two Hits and a Miss
165 A Hot Water Battle
175 Wings 'n Things!
177 The Apple Corps
178 Houndoom's Special Delivery
182 All That Glitters
183 The Light Fantastic
184 UnBEARable
188 The Stolen Stones!
189 The Dunsparse Deception
195 The Art of Pokemon
199 Doin' What Comes Natu-rally
200 The Balloon Blow Up - haven't seen this one
201 The Screen Actor's Guilt - haven't seen this one
202 Right On, Rhydon!
203 The Kecleon Caper
204 The Joy of Water Pokemon
205 Got Miltank?
210 Takin' It On The Chinchou!
216 Plant It Now...Diglett Later
231 A Tyrogue Full of Trouble
232 Xatu the Future - I personally feel this is the worst episode of Pokémon ever created.
237 Whichever Way the Wind Blows
238 Some Like It Hot
240 As Clear As Crystal
242 Enlighten Up!
247 I Politoed Ya So!
248 The Ice Cave BANNED
253 Why? Wynaut!
254 Just Add Water
258 A Crowning Achievement

I also don't think Johto was as bad episode-wise as people make it out to be. (It actually was about the same length as Hoenn). Personally, I think the quality of episode dipped, which made Johto seem worse than all other seasons (combined with the points I made earlier).
 
PAK Man said:
(It actually was about the same length as Hoenn).
Click to expand...

Well not exactly, Johto was 157 episodes long, which is almost the length of AG as a whole at 191 episodes.

You know what's sad? Johto almost went on as long as Hoenn and Battle Frontier put together. And that's *without* a second quest like May or Dawn's story arc. And also without Ash developing his Johto team properly or a rival appearing regularly. (Seriously, where was Gary this season?)

Its exactly why I wish we had a new character in Johto. Misty and Brock didn't really develop or change at all that season. We had no new character to watch like we do with May and Dawn in the following seasons.

Ash's Johto Pokemon didn't get anywhere near the development that Ash's Kanto, Hoenn and Sinnoh Pokemon teams received. Seriously, how much did Totodile or Noctowl even do?
 
Argh, in total agreement with Evil Azurill. I can't decide what fillers to leave out and many of my most favorite episodes ARE Johto fillers (The Kyuukon in the Mist/Just Waiting on a Friend, and Houndoom's Special Delivery included <3).

And seriously, I'm glad I'm not the only person who dies of boredom with those shorts, though, I'm actually fond of the pre-movie ones, except for those awful Pichu Brothers crud.
SO. BORING. I had to force myself awake to sit through them (because I can't leave anything in the anime unwatched). And I never had that problem with Johto episodes, they were engaging enough for me.
 
I wouldn't trim it at all, just replace the fillers with more game-based episodes and replace second half of the Johto with return to Kanto with G/S Kanto events.
 
I actually enjoyed Forest Grumps. It was one of my favorite Johto episodes, I wouldn't cut it...sure, nothing really happened, but it was one of the more funny and entertaining fillers out there.
 
Johto really did lack good character development. Hell, it even failed at doing it right when it did try, oftentimes. Casey was a shining example of that - they could have done a lot with her, but instead she got the occasional ep before being halfheartedly thrown away at the end of Johto. It doesn't help that she wasn't that interesting in the first place, but I digress.


That said, here's the Johto episodes I'd cut out(bearing in mind that it's been years since I've seen any of these):

116 The Double Trouble Header
118 Roll On, Pokemon
120 Flower Power
121 Spinarak Attack
123 The Little Big Horn
125 Once in a Blue Moon
126 Whistle Stop
S3 Slowking's Day
130 For Crying Out Loud
131 Tanks A Lot!
133 Grin To Win!
135 Foul Weather Friends
137 Mild 'n Wooly
143 A Farfetch'd Tale - Games, schmames. This episode sucked.
146 No Big Woop
147 Tunnel Vision
151 Love, Totodile Style
154 The Psychic Side Kicks
159 The Bug Stops Here
160 Type Casting
162 Carrying On
166 Hook, Line and Stinker
170 Mountain Time
174 Ariados, Amigos!
175 Wings 'n Things!
176 The Grass Route
177 The Apple Corps
178 Houndoom's Special Delivery
183 The Light Fantastic
188 The Stolen Stones!
195 The Art of Pokemon
199 Doin' What Comes Natu-rally
202 Right On, Rhydon!
203 The Kecleon Caper
205 Got Miltank?
208 Around The Whirlpool
209 Fly Me To The Moon
210 Takin' It On The Chinchou!
211 The Corsola Caper
221 Throwing In the Noctowl
226 Extreme Pokemon
231 A Tyrogue Full of Trouble
232 Xatu the Future
237 Whichever Way the Wind Blows
241 Same Old Song And Dance
244 Wish Upon A Star Shape
247 I Politoed Ya So!
248 The Ice Cave
253 Why? Wynaut!
258 A Crowning Achievement

That's 50 eps I trimmed, folks. Some of them aren't technically fillers(like Extreme Pokemon), and others at least tried to do something worthwhile(like Hook, Line, and Stinker), but they wasted so much potential that it'd be better to scrap them and find a better way to accomplish what those eps did, imo.
 
You would cut The Little Big Horn? But...that's one of the few episodes where Brock actually got to DO something.
 
Yeah, the Stantler episode was excellent. I remember when I was younger I thought Brock was going to capture that Stantler, its a shame he didn't. I'd definitely keep any Misty or Brock centered episode, they both had too few this saga.

The problem is Johto is like 90% focused on Ash and only 10% focused on all the other characters. When we got an episode that was *not* another ep about Ash or helping a filler character with a problem, it is something to take note of.
 
Eh, while the episode wasn't bad, it had pacing problems due to the simple plot not being enough to fill 20 minutes. The main reason people enjoy the episode is because Takeshi was so underused in other episodes - had he had a starring role in 50 episodes or so during Johto, this episode wouldn't really be much to take notice of.

Forest Grumps is good, though, I agree with that.
 
PAK Man said:
231 A Tyrogue Full of Trouble
Click to expand...

Don't agree with this one. It may not be the best episode in the world but it shows the character from game, Karate Master Kiyo/Nobuhiko from Fighting Dojo (I remember Dogasu was blaming 4Kids for that naming, he also wasn't aware of the fact he's from games). And I credit this episode for showing a game character, who haven't got shown in Pokemon Special manga, which is really a rare occurence. I know that most of people here weren't aware of this but when I first saw the episode (in Polish, of course) and I heard "Karate Master Kiyo", I did no longer watch this episode from its "filler" side. And seeing all Jouto fillers, with vast majority of them having nothing to do with the games and are boring like hell, the Bulky & Nobuhiko episode looks really good compared to them.
 
Crankyman said:
What's the point of streamlining Johto if it already happened? ._.
Click to expand...

Because for the people who ever do a re-watch of Johto, there are some episodes you should never torture yourself with again.

There are certainly some really good episodes in Johto, but there are also a lot of episodes that are so incredibly bad that you wonder if the writers were on depression medication this entire saga.

I remember back when Johto was "brand new" and airing for the first time, everyone used to say how Kanto and Orange were the "glory days" of the anime and how the Johto saga ruined the series. While people's view toward this saga may have softened over the years, there's no way to deny that a lot of the creativity from Kanto was completely lost this saga. I honestly remember people saying things like "What happened?"

The fact that its been almost 6 years since this saga ended, and people are still complaining about it, it says a lot.
 
Please note: The thread is from 15 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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