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Immigration

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Nekusagi

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Since we don't have a thread on this yet (which is surprising), I thought I'd post one. What are your thoughts on immigration, legal or otherwise?
Personally, I've always thought that the term "illegal immigrant" is demeaning, as it suggests a person is "illegal", ie, shouldn't be allowed/breaks the law. My feelings are, as long as they're here to do honest work, they should be allowed, so long as they make an effort to settle in (legally) after a while. On the same note, I'm also against exploitation.

Okay, so there's my feelings. Any others?
 
Personally, I've always thought that the term "illegal immigrant" is demeaning, as it suggests a person is "illegal", ie, shouldn't be allowed/breaks the law.

- So someone who came here illegally isn't breaking the law?
 
I have absolutely no problem with immigrants. I have IMMENSE problems with ILLEGAL immigrants. There are a MILLION reasons why people need to come here legally. From disease transmission to criminal history. If you come here legally...welcome. If you come here ILlegally...get out. The Europeans came to America in the same manner as illegal immigrants are coming here now. And look what happened to the natives. Call me paranoid, but...history repeats itself.
 
I'm fine with them as long as they don't abuse the system or expect others to go out of their way to help them if they're not legally here in the first place.
 
I basically agree with the majority of what GrnMarvl13 was saying. People that actually get here and get legalized, then it's good. But, when one that aren't legal start to come in and take all the jobs, then that's when it gets bad. Me, being in Southern California, I see a lot of this taking place. Almost every place you go has someone that can't speak English. It's even come to the point where you *have* to be Bilingual to get a job. That right there pushes it over the point to where we're all equal.
 
My journalism adviser has told our staff several times that many newspapers, not just in the southwest United States, won't hire reporters unless they speak both English and Spanish. That, in my opinion, is going too far. Immigrants, legal or illegal, should not expect already-established citizens to learn their language because they do not want to adapt to the new culture. I, as an American, would be laughed at if I moved to Mexico and expected the government and businesses to make Mexicans learn English so they could communicate with me.
 
The Golden Wang of Justice said:
- So someone who came here illegally isn't breaking the law?
Click to expand...

Amen. I'm in 100% agreement with Mozz.

I saw on the front page of the Richmond Times a few weeks ago, an article about a rally for illegal immigrants. This girl held up a poster and it said (not exact):

Stupid Girl's Poster said:
- I'm a straight A student
- I'm head of the Spanish club
- (Some other stuff I can't remember)
Am I a criminal?
Click to expand...

My only question for her is "do you have your immigration papers?" If no, then yes, you are a criminal.

I'm sorry, we have decided that we can't just let anyone and everyone over the border, but we still welcome people in. If you're so sure that you'll be such an asset to society, I'm sure you'll be welcomed in legally. (There does need to be reform to streamline that, I'll admit)

If I rob a bank, then unveil a cure for cancer, I still get punished for robbing the bank. I still broke the law, I still face the consequences. How come I couldn't get out of breaking the law, while someone who's not even here legally could?

And about the guest worker program? I have news for Bush--it won't work. People hire illegal immigrants because they can pay less than minimum wage with no benefits (if they complain, it's a quick call to INS). A guest worker program will not change anything, companies will still hire illegals, and the guest workers will wind up just like Americans now--losing jobs to illegals.

We need to build a 20-foot tall electrified fence on the borders (that's both Mexico and Canada), beef up border security, and kick out all these illegals. Then we can talk.

- Trip
 
People should be free to immigrate to whatever country they wish to live, but they must do so legally and they must abide by that nation's constitution. It takes an incredible amount of hubris to relocate and expect everyone else to adopt your particular culture. This is not to say that they cannot speak their own language or celebrate whatever festivals that their culture observes. They must understand, though, that their heritage does not and should not be given special consideration.

As I write this, half of the street signs and business signs in Miami are in Spanish as well as English. Cuban immigrants are given special deals with respect to employment here (as told to me by a small business owner) that are not available for Haitian or island immigrants. That is blatantly unfair.
 
There is only one problem with the language thing: America has no official language. True, we predominately speak English, but we cannot force everyone else to speak it, too.

My brother-in-law has for years been trying to become an official citizen of our country. It is an immensely complex process, I assure you, and you have to stay put in one state for several years. I could see why people do not have the patience to go through this process, but I will agree that anyone that doesn't want to is a bum that should be discarded. As for entering in this country illegally to begin with, yeah, we need better security, although I am uncertain how to do this.

Don't worry, my brother-in-law is legal, and has my sister to back him.
 
There is only one problem with the language thing: America has no official language. True, we predominately speak English, but we cannot force everyone else to speak it, too.
Click to expand...
Well, yes, but many corporations (like the one I work for) have an English-only policy which means that anything corporate-related (reports, logos, internal documents, memos, etc) is in English. Where I work, half the staff speaks Spanish fluently but every single sign in the entire building is in English.
 
On the border with Canada?

LOL. You 1)Have monies to waste and 2)No clues what's dangerous and what isn't. It won't harm much what little illegal traffic there is, but will probably not help what legal traffic there is (all those cities and towns are are actually ON the border - straddling it, that is, the town half in CND and half in USA.

"Yeah, I know your gas station is on the south side of the village, but you can't go gas because there's a wall in the way..."

This whole notion is just moronic ultra-nationalism. And ultra-nationalism is worthless bullcrap and has always been.
 
A Figment said:
On the border with Canada?

LOL. You 1)Have monies to waste and 2)No clues what's dangerous and what isn't. It won't harm much what little illegal traffic there is, but will probably not help what legal traffic there is (all those cities and towns are are actually ON the border - straddling it, that is, the town half in CND and half in USA.
Click to expand...

According to Mr. Bush, terrorists threaten our very existence and will do anything in their power to kill every last American.

A smart terrorist would go in through Canada, come across our largely-unguarded Canadian border, and steal a car to get where he's going.

And what was all that sea- and air-port security for again?

- Trip
 
Sceptile726 said:
There is only one problem with the language thing: America has no official language. True, we predominately speak English, but we cannot force everyone else to speak it, too.
Click to expand...

No one should be FORCED to learn it. But I don't want to be a bilingual nation where my second language is FORCED upon me by the new populace. It's about respect. If I enter the home of a Spanish-language immigrant, then I don't expect them to speak English. That is THEIR home. BUT, if I'm in a public place, I should be able to speak the language I was forced to learn in school and have people understand me. Otherwise, my entire education was for nothing.
 
People seem to think that Americans lose so many jobs to immigrants, illegal or otherwise. But in actual studies the effect has been shown to be very small, and to only affect low level jobs, basically minimum wage jobs.
 
I thought illegals came here and stole jobs from CEOs. Boy is my face red.
 
Well the main point is that even the effect on min wage jobs was measured to be very very tiny.
 
It was a joke making fun of what I said, like you were saying "Well DUH, that's a stupid thing to point out, that immigrants only take low level jobs." So I was saying, well that wasn't the main point of what I was saying, I was pointing out that they have very little effect even on low level jobs.
 
I know a lot of people from here who immigrated to USA/Canada to work, and most of them don't speak English. They immigrate because in north america they can get more money than here.
 
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