Improvements for Gen I and Gen II Pokemon (for my hypothetical fan game)

[Saiga]

So I'm designing a hypothetical "fan wish" game, a remake of Gen I and Gen II, containing only the first 251 Pokemon but abilities and moves from all the up to Gen V. I've been thinking up of changes to make to the core gaming mechanics, in order to improve viability across the different species of Pokemon, as their are plenty of Pokemon that are lackluster, don't stand out enough, or lack a niche that they can do well.

SO, I'm hoping for some suggestions from you fellow fans. What Pokemon do you think could be improved and how? (Including but not limited to: Stats, Ability, Moves, Typing, Role, etc). A few things in advance:

1. Dragon typing has been removed, Dragonite is Water/Flying unless I get a better suggestion.
2. All Normal/Flying and pure flying, unless I get better suggestions (including reasons to keep normal typing).
3. Typhlosion is now a physical attacker to differentiate it from Charizard and take advantage of that delicious physical move pool.
4. Pokemon only have 1 Ability instead of 2/3 to choose from.
5. TMs, HMs and tutors are axed, only level up and egg moves are in.

 

[Articwolf10]

!. No just no are you insane why remove the best type in the game?
2. Well maybe but nah Staraptor and Braviary should;ve been Fighting/Flying but all the others are fine
3: He already has a good move-poll and why change his stats? he's a decent mixed sweeper?
4: No! I like them having different abilities
5: Hell to the fucking no! that would drasticly reduce a lot of move-polls and we just got unlimited TM's!

all in all none of your idea's are good... and why remake them with half the rooster? seems like such a waste... so I'm shooting you down.

 

[Purim]

So I'm designing a hypothetical "fan wish" game, a remake of Gen I and Gen II, containing only the first 251 Pokemon but abilities and moves from all the up to Gen V. I've been thinking up of changes to make to the core gaming mechanics, in order to improve viability across the different species of Pokemon, as their are plenty of Pokemon that are lackluster, don't stand out enough, or lack a niche that they can do well.

SO, I'm hoping for some suggestions from you fellow fans. What Pokemon do you think could be improved and how? (Including but not limited to: Stats, Ability, Moves, Typing, Role, etc). A few things in advance:

1. Dragon typing has been removed, Dragonite is Water/Flying unless I get a better suggestion.
2. All Normal/Flying and pure flying, unless I get better suggestions (including reasons to keep normal typing).
3. Typhlosion is now a physical attacker to differentiate it from Charizard and take advantage of that delicious physical move pool.
4. Pokemon only have 1 Ability instead of 2/3 to choose from.
5. TMs, HMs and tutors are axed, only level up and egg moves are in.

Ahem...

1. Dragon was invented to be the 'uber' type in RGBY, and in GSC, Dragon was taken into consideration for balancing the types, which means Steel's resistances are less important. Also, without Dragon, Ice is even worse than it already is: at least it's an Achilles' heel to the 'best' type right now. Without Dragon, it would be an inferior Water-Type that hits Flying and Grass SE instead of Fire and Rock.

2. Without Normal STAB, ALL of the birds in Kanto/Johto have a much worse movepool. Return is no longer such a good move when it's not boosted by STAB.

3. Because Flareon doesn't deserve a monopoly in the "Physical Fire-Types with terrible movepool" category. Especially with your 5th change, you lose out on EQ, Wild Charge, Brick Break, Shadow Claw for a moveset of Rollout, Flare Blitz, Gyro Ball, and Reversal?

4. Why have less options? Does having more options make the game worse in some way? Really? Some Pokémon play wildly different with different abilities. Vaporeon, for example, is almost like a different Pokémon with Hydration instead of Water Absorb.

5. See my above Typhlosion moveset. No TMs is probably the worst idea of everything on this list (and THAT'S saying something). The TMs are a saving grace for many Pokémon with shallow movepools and without them, Mew doesn't have any sort of gimmick.


TL;DR: All of these ideas are terrible, and that's not even touching ignoring all the Pokémon made after 1999. I award you no points, and may Arceus have mercy on your soul.

 

[Yaezakura]

So I'm designing a hypothetical "fan wish" game, a remake of Gen I and Gen II, containing only the first 251 Pokemon but abilities and moves from all the up to Gen V. I've been thinking up of changes to make to the core gaming mechanics, in order to improve viability across the different species of Pokemon, as their are plenty of Pokemon that are lackluster, don't stand out enough, or lack a niche that they can do well.

SO, I'm hoping for some suggestions from you fellow fans. What Pokemon do you think could be improved and how? (Including but not limited to: Stats, Ability, Moves, Typing, Role, etc). A few things in advance:

1. Dragon typing has been removed, Dragonite is Water/Flying unless I get a better suggestion.
2. All Normal/Flying and pure flying, unless I get better suggestions (including reasons to keep normal typing).
3. Typhlosion is now a physical attacker to differentiate it from Charizard and take advantage of that delicious physical move pool.
4. Pokemon only have 1 Ability instead of 2/3 to choose from.
5. TMs, HMs and tutors are axed, only level up and egg moves are in.

...Fan wish game? Which fans? Are there any fans who actually want anything on this list? I mean yeah, a lot of us want some Pokemon to be more viable, but you're just gutting the game.

1: Dragon is a balanced type. It hits exactly one type for SE damage, and one type for NVE damage. In a lot of ways, it is the game's most balanced attacking type. Defensively, it is pretty standard, with 2 weaknesses and 4 resistances.
2: This kills every single Normal/Flying Pokemon aside from Togekiss. Which isn't even in your game. They lose half their STAB potential, and rarely have the moves to make up for it.
3: ...Why? They have the same stats, but different typing and movesets. Things can fill similar roles in different ways. This is called "variety".
4: ...Why? Giving Pokemon less options somehow makes them more viable? I guess Pokemon having more than one potential ability really isn't fair. I mean, sometimes you won't know until you try to do something what the enemy may have!
5: Okay. So you want all Pokemon to have universally shallow movepools, making it so that only dual-type Pokemon have any real chance of seeing use. And don't worry--I'm sure Delibird will do fine with only learning one move naturally.

As for future improvements, I suggest:
Eliminate EVs and natures. Variety and customization is obviously bad.
Give every Pokemon in the game base 80 in every stat, so it's all balanced.
Have every Pokemon of the same type learn the exact same moves, otherwise one might have an advantage over the others.

 

[Travalgar]

1. Dragon type are supposed to exist in almost every monster-based game. The reason you're suggesting for it to be removed from the game are the real question here.
2. I can't understand, sorry.
3. Then the same should apply to all Pokemons with a physical fighting type appearance but with better special attack stats instead. That's not a solution, that's over-simplifying problems.
4. There's no fun in that. You removed a part of Pokemon individuality in the game.
5. This has got to be the worst suggestion in your original post. TMs, HMs, and move tutors have their own use.

 

[Articwolf10]

I'm thinking this guy is a troll... seriously... noone would be able to think the removal of the Dragons and TM/HMs would be a good idea...

 

[Travalgar]

I'm thinking this guy is a troll... seriously... noone would be able to think the removal of the Dragons and TM/HMs would be a good idea...

Easy. Nobody said everyone who got a stupid idea is a troll. Maybe he's just oblivious to what others might think about his opinions. You don't have to be presenting a 100% agreeable idea to be granted permission to post. That's what discussion is for.

 

[El_]

1. Dragon typing has been removed, Dragonite is Water/Flying unless I get a better suggestion.

Why? Do you feel like its overpower'd or something? It is designed to be mythical afterall and on par with the actual legendaries. You want a better suggestion? Then make Dragonite Water/Dragon and call it a day. Also make Gyrados Water/Dragon too.

2. All Normal/Flying and pure flying, unless I get better suggestions (including reasons to keep normal typing).

Like people said, they appreciate stab, though unlike others on here I WILL give you this: Pigeot is a poor offensive Pokemon outclassed by Fearow/Dodrio, so it might likely appreciate the pure typing if it allows it better defensive abilities. (Its better than those two at defense) Make Farfeche'd a Fighting/Flying type and give it a useable BST!

Noctowl is the only other Normal/Flying bird I believe, and like Pigeot it seems defensive. Flying/Psychic would make sense, might become a mini Lugia... okay maybe not but its a good start.

3. Typhlosion is now a physical attacker to differentiate it from Charizard and take advantage of that delicious physical move pool.

Sure. As long as its movepool consist of Flareblitz and thunderpunch as well as earthquake and a few fighting moves then it should be fine. Give Flareblitz to Flareon while your at it, and switch Flareon's Sp.Att with his speed...

4. Pokemon only have 1 Ability instead of 2/3 to choose from.

Sure, doesn't bother me that much as long as you give them good abilities.

5. TMs, HMs and tutors are axed, only level up and egg moves are in.

Woot on axing HMs lol But the others you'll probably wanna keep. Unless your doing what I think your doing, in other words you want a "natural" feel in regards to raising Pokemon, but the challenge is changing their movesets in order to give them good moves and still having level up movesets that make sense.

Hope this has helped.

 

[Saiga]

For starters, I'm not a troll. I'd to clear up what I meant by "fan wish" game, it's a term I got from another person who does the same thing, essentially designing games for fun (as in creative design, because I have no skill with programming/game creation). The reason why it's only Gen I - II Pokemon is because most of my friends aren't familiar with the generations that come afterward, as well as making it easier for me if I have less Pokemon to work through. It isn't because I dislike the latest generations, if anyone was wondering, I love all the generations. I do have a soft spot for Gen II Pokemon though.

1. The reason for the removal of Dragon typing was thus: I didn't think it would be very important with only four dragon Pokemon (Kingdra, Dratini, Dragonair and Dragonite), and it doesn't make sense why Kingdra is a dragon while more Draconian Pokemon like Gyarados and Charizard aren't. I thought that it would be better if instead of having a Dragon typing, the Draconian Pokemon all had a Dragon theme in there movesets (IE. Dragon Pulse is like an improved Water Pulse that Kingdra/Dragonite/Gyarados/Maybe Charizard can learn, Dragon Claw is changed to flying type and Charizard/Gyarados/Dragonite can all get stab off it, etc). And also (this is a minor reason) so that their would be 1 type for each Gym (16 in total).

I didn't think the loss of a resistance would be detrimental to the already superb defensive type Steel, but I can understand how Ice gets the shaft because of it.

2. Wasn't aware that the Normal typing was beneficial, all I thought it did was prevent them from resisting Fighting in return for being immune to Ghost (but due to Ghost being immune to Normal, I didn't think it was a good trade). I was definitely thinking Fatfetch'd as Fighting/Flying, and maybe something like Dark/Flying for Fearow, was wondering if anyone could think of better secondary typings. If Normal/Flying really is beneficial to them I won't change it.

3. This was an example I gave because that was as far as I had gotten at the time, planning the 6 starters. I didn't change Typhlosion because he had a Physical type appearance, but because his move pool has a lot of good Physical moves in it and he needed something to stop being a lesser Charizard. I do intend to give Flareon a great physical move pool, including Flare Blitz, Flame Wheel, Blaze Kick (He has hind legs, isn't too far fetched is it?) as his STAB choices. It was mainly an example of what a change could be like.

4. I didn't think about the whole unpredictability element, as neither I nor my friends play competitively. It's just that it seems most Pokemon have one ability that is clearly the best for them, so I thought that may as well just be their ability.

5. El_, you hit the nail on the head for what I intended. Also, I didn't mean for the Pokemon to lose access to the TM/tutor moves that were beneficial to them, just have them moved into the level up and breeding move pools.


On the other hand, forget those points. I'd just like to know what Gen I - II Pokemon you feel could use improvement, and how.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

1. Dragon types are meant to be rare and overpowered, which explains why there's so little of them

2. Pure Flying + Roost = Game Breaker. Also, what's up with wanting STAB for Return, normal moves have no benefits when it comes to SE.

3. Well I don't see that complaint since Typholsion shares the exact same base stats as Charizard, so it should've switch both of its attack stats to differentiate themselves. This will sadly make him superior to the fire dragon with this moveset:

Flare Blitz
Earthquake
Rock Slide/Wild Charge
Shadow Claw

4. Having different abilities gives it a challenge to get the ability you wanted for competitive use.

5. Ok, that's really going too far.

 

[El_]

1. The reason for the removal of Dragon typing was thus: I didn't think it would be very important with only four dragon Pokemon (Kingdra, Dratini, Dragonair and Dragonite), and it doesn't make sense why Kingdra is a dragon while more Draconian Pokemon like Gyarados and Charizard aren't. I thought that it would be better if instead of having a Dragon typing, the Draconian Pokemon all had a Dragon theme in there movesets (IE. Dragon Pulse is like an improved Water Pulse that Kingdra/Dragonite/Gyarados/Maybe Charizard can learn, Dragon Claw is changed to flying type and Charizard/Gyarados/Dragonite can all get stab off it, etc). And also (this is a minor reason) so that their would be 1 type for each Gym (16 in total).

I didn't think the loss of a resistance would be detrimental to the already superb defensive type Steel, but I can understand how Ice gets the shaft because of it.

Just keep the dragon thing. I don't understand that since your allowing yourself the ability to change typings why not just make Gyrados/Charizard dragon types themselves? Water/Dragon (keep intimidate) & Fire/Dragon (give em levitate).

It does make alot of sense actually, since Dragons are suppose to be hard to obtain and Gyrados/Charizard are pretty easy to get. But like I said, just change their typings from flying to dragon. Dragons are suppose to be rare, so the fewer the better, and you have to realize that dragons make up apart of the actual storyline since Lance/Clair openly express their love for them, not to mention dragon's den.

As for the gym thing, Dark is just going to have to get the shaft. Unless you add an unofficial one like the fighting gym in Saffron.

Leave Fearow as it is, because I don't think that it gains anything from becoming a dark type aside from pursuit stab, which isn't worth it compared with Return.

Unlike others, I don't mind the one ability thing. (SpeedBoost Blaziken!) Its understandable that one ability is all one needs, and alot of abilities are useless anyways or are on the wrong Pokemon. Just as long as it makes sense. My suggestions will be for the Dragons:

Dratini/Dragonair/Dragonite Water/Dragon : Multiscale *His DW ability*
Charizard Fire/Dragon : Levitate
Kingdra Keep the typing he already has and the ability swift swim.
Gyrados Water/Dragon : Keep intimidate.

Since there are no TMs/Move tutors then make sure that via level up they learn:

Outrage, (all of them) Draco Meteor, (everyone but Gyrados) Dragon Tail, (everyone but Kingdra) Dragon Claw, (Charizard/Dragonite) Dragon Dance, (all of them) and the appropriate elemental attacks.

If this were a downloadable hack you are making on B/W's engine then I would actually be interested in trying it.

 

[League]

So I'm designing a hypothetical "fan wish" game, a remake of Gen I and Gen II, containing only the first 251 Pokemon but abilities and moves from all the up to Gen V. I've been thinking up of changes to make to the core gaming mechanics, in order to improve viability across the different species of Pokemon, as their are plenty of Pokemon that are lackluster, don't stand out enough, or lack a niche that they can do well.

SO, I'm hoping for some suggestions from you fellow fans. What Pokemon do you think could be improved and how? (Including but not limited to: Stats, Ability, Moves, Typing, Role, etc). A few things in advance:

1. Dragon typing has been removed, Dragonite is Water/Flying unless I get a better suggestion.
2. All Normal/Flying and pure flying, unless I get better suggestions (including reasons to keep normal typing).
3. Typhlosion is now a physical attacker to differentiate it from Charizard and take advantage of that delicious physical move pool.
4. Pokemon only have 1 Ability instead of 2/3 to choose from.
5. TMs, HMs and tutors are axed, only level up and egg moves are in.

I'm actually very sympathetic to the idea of a fan game, although I do think (as others) that Dragonite needs its Dragon typing. In fact, I might even increase the number of Dragons there is, so that trainers like Clair and Lance can have adequate teams. (I wouldn't make Charizard Fire/Dragon though--Fire/Flying, if the Dragon type didn't exist, would otherwise suffice elementally for Dragons. I also wouldn't make Gyarados Water/Dragon necessarily...)

I also don't think that Typhlosion should be a physical type attacker... regarding its look, it should be a more potent special type, though its current physically-generous movepool and higher special attack I find all well enough, and ultimately make it a mixed type. If anything, it is Charizard that should be altered, and made more physical.

Roost should change the Flying type to the Ground type. (I assume you want Roost to be a move in your games?) The Bird pokemon being Flying-type only can be a workable change. (I'd make Noctowl Dark/Flying maybe, as well--actually, you should have one or two Normal/Flying pokemon, as that would distinguish them from other birds. Actually... Noctowl should remain Normal/Flying, as he is an ideal pokemon to resist Ghost attacks. Farfetch'd being Fighting/Flying is a decent enough idea, but only because it would make him weaker against the other birds--and possibly better in general.)

A few other things: 1) I like your name, as I think of Saiga shotguns...; 2) I have a blog post regarding some incredibly complex game mechanics--it's somewhat different from your ideas, somewhat / only kinda similar; 3) on that last note, your blog would be a great place to post this idea--I'd subscribe to it, and be a frequent contributor.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

I also don't think that Typhlosion should be a physical type attacker... regarding its look, it should be a more potent special type, though its current physically-generous movepool and higher special attack I find all well enough, and ultimately make it a mixed type. If anything, it is Charizard that should be altered, and made more physical.

Both of their physical attacks aren't good enough for being mixed attackers, so you have to take its high offensive stat to its advantage. Also Charizard doesn't seem to have any other good physical moves to even be a physical attacker.

 

[League]

^If he's comfortable with switching stats around, as seemed he was with Typhlosion, then it should be Charizard whose stats get switched around, if he's seeking to diversify between the two. Charizard gets quite a bit of physical moves, among them Flare Blitz, Flame Charge, Fly, Sky Drop, Crunch, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Bulldoze, Dragon Tail, Dragon Claw, Thunder Punch, Shadow Claw, Brick Break, Focus Punch, Return, Headbutt, Facade.
~Typhlosion has Flare Blitz, Flame Charge, Aerial Ace, Gyro Ball (no good on Typhlosion), Rock Slide, Earthquake, Bulldoze, Wild Charge, Shadow Claw, Reversal, Brick Break, Double Kick, Low Kick, Focus Punch, Double-edge, Thrash, Return, Secret Power, Facade, Quick Attack, and Rollout (?)...

(Alot of those moves are from move tutors and TMs...)

Meh, I think that both pokemon should maintain sizable offenses. Both Charizard and Typhlosion can handle the major walls in Gens 1-2.

On that note, I have a question: will evolutions of pokemon found in Gens 1-2 be found in this fan game? Porygon-Z would make an excellent pokemon for a trainer (a boss of some sort) to hold, as would Electivire, Magmortar, the new Eeveelutions, etc.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

But Charizard doesn't have any good flying moves for STAB (Fly is risky, and Sky Drop is banned), so it can't damage fighting types holding Stone Edge, which means it'll stick to being special-based, whereas Typholsion doesn't have to worry about the crippling weakness if it were a slightly inferior yet worthy version of Arcanine and Darmanitan.

 

[Wiley Willy]

Saiga, You said one of the most beautiful things I have ever heard for design in a pokemon game.

1. Dragon typing has been removed, Dragonite is Water/Flying unless I get a better suggestion.

I hate Dragons. I find them to be the most obnoxious and overly abused pokemon type in all pokemon games. I would love to see it removed.

I like the idea of having constantly reusable tutors and just eliminating TM's and HM's altogether. What would also be nice, is make the tutors require money payment. I would make the payment on average to be something along the lines of Drug Prices (Protein, Iron, etc.) which I think is something like 9800. Maybe even make it a bit more expensive then that. This way people cant abuse move tutors all at once, and also it provides people with the wanting to go and make more money.

Also with the above in mind, make it harder to make money, provide tougher battle challenges. Maybe now pokemon money will actually be worth something.

Edit: I just realized after reading your post over again that what you really said was not tutors either, so ignore what I said about the tutors. Man that's tough though. Just you get what you get and good luck if you delete an important move by accident.

Talk about Pokemon in Expert mode.

 

[League]

But Charizard doesn't have any good flying moves for STAB (Fly is risky, and Sky Drop is banned), so it can't damage fighting types holding Stone Edge, which means it'll stick to being special-based, whereas Typholsion doesn't have to worry about the crippling weakness if it were a slightly inferior yet worthy version of Arcanine and Darmanitan.

This will be something of a cleansed metagame, as only Gen 1 & Gen 2 pokemon are guaranteed to be found here. (I asked as to the appearance of evolutions of pokemon from Gens 1 & 2, PorygonZ, Electivire, Magmortar, etc.)

Meh, I think that Typhlosion's Defense should drop, while its Attack is raised; meanwhile, Charizard's Attack raise will come at the cost of a Special Defense drop. (Charizard should be more vulnerable to the elements, what with its life source-tail flame and all.)

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Meh, I think that Typhlosion's Defense should drop, while its Attack is raised; meanwhile, Charizard's Attack raise will come at the cost of a Special Defense drop. (Charizard should be more vulnerable to the elements, what with its life source-tail flame and all.)

So you want Charizard to even more terrible than it was last gen by being weak to the elements?

 

[League]

^ If there's no TMs, there will hardly be any Stealth Rock... I don't think you realize the full ramifications that Saiga's fansim entails.

Competitive play in the Saiga-sim 1-2 world will be plum different from both the original GSC and our current metagame.

 

[Saiga]

Can't really make Charizard Fire/Dragon though, it destroys balance among the starters. Also, Ice still gets the shaft because Dragonite would be the only one still weak to Ice.

Also, I think Charizard should have Solar Power instead of levitate because it's a really good ability.

How about Bug/Dark Ariados? He learns Sucker Punch by level up, Night Slash and Pursuit via breeding, as well as some Ghost moves. Plus, we already have Bug/Poison Beedrill.