Contest Infernape vs Typhlosion
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Envoy
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Logically speaking, Infernape is the best Fire Starter whereas Typhlosion is arguably the worst (he competes with Charizard for that title).
Furthermore, the monkey clearly has an advantage in battle since it gets STAB Fighting moves to use against Typhlosion. Conversely, the best Typhlosion can do is fire off a mediocre Earthquake.
It's obvious that Infernape wins in a battle.
That said, I detest the monkey with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns. On the other hand, Typhlosion is my my second favorite Fire Starter (after Blaziken), so I'm voting for him, logic be damned.
Furthermore, the monkey clearly has an advantage in battle since it gets STAB Fighting moves to use against Typhlosion. Conversely, the best Typhlosion can do is fire off a mediocre Earthquake.
It's obvious that Infernape wins in a battle.
That said, I detest the monkey with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns. On the other hand, Typhlosion is my my second favorite Fire Starter (after Blaziken), so I'm voting for him, logic be damned.
Scarlet Sky
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Typhlosion... Infernape always seemed overrated to me.
Data_Error
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Who would win, or who do we prefer? Most of the contests area matter of personal preference.
The fighting-type doesn't give Infernape an advantage over Typhlosion in a one-on-one, and given their stats it basically comes down to which one has the better trainer.
Now, I personally am a big fan of Typhlosion because I like its design far better and it's given me a lot of good, solid use, but that's just me.
The fighting-type doesn't give Infernape an advantage over Typhlosion in a one-on-one, and given their stats it basically comes down to which one has the better trainer.
Now, I personally am a big fan of Typhlosion because I like its design far better and it's given me a lot of good, solid use, but that's just me.
Sure, it may be overused, but just because it shares its typing with Blaziken does not make Infernape a copy in any way.
On topic, I prefer Infernape's design, and its battle capabilities are obviously superior. I actually liked using Typhlosion much more in the 3rd Generation, where its Thunderpunch was backed off by its high special attack and Stealth Rock wasn't there to absolutely wreck it.
On topic, I prefer Infernape's design, and its battle capabilities are obviously superior. I actually liked using Typhlosion much more in the 3rd Generation, where its Thunderpunch was backed off by its high special attack and Stealth Rock wasn't there to absolutely wreck it.
Fixed.
That's obligatory because they're both starters. They're still distributed different. And by your logic, if a Pokemon shares similar stats with another, it's copying it.
Great logic.
Oh, heaven forbid a Pokemon share a dual typing. Pelliper is totally a rip-off a Gyarados. And Bronzong? How dare they rip-off Metagross!
And how is that the fault of Infernape? If Roserade had turned out to be the final form of the Johto starter, would that have had made it a rip-off of Venusaur solely because of typing and similar stat distribution?
I reiterate: it's perfectly fine to dislike Infernape, and to call it overused. But just because it shares a similar typing and it suffered through the misfortune of being chosen to be the final evolution in a Fire starter's evolutionary line does not make it a copy. They have differently distributed stats, completely different designs, and different movepools. Infernape is not a Blaziken rip-off.
Envoy
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About the stats: The problem is that, even though they're technically distributed differently, they are clearly meant to do the same thing. Which is, attacking from the physical and special sides of the spectrum. If the stat distribution for Infernape was more bulky and defensive, this complaint would be baseless. As it is, it's quite valid.
Anyway, I think the main problem with Infernape is that it was the Final evolution Fire/Fighting Starter that came immediately after Blaziken. I doubt he'd get quite as much hate if he wasn't a starter, or if he was the Gen VI Fire starter or something.
Personally, I hate him, but not for the reasons most people do. I just hate spotlight stealing monkeys with ridiculously wide movepools and great offensive stats and typing who take popularity away from the unappreciated Grass type. If he was a bear or a cougar, I wouldn't mind him so much (though I do tend to dislike the Fire Starters for some reason, so who knows).
Infernape's base stats:
hp: 76
attack: 104
def: 71
sp att: 104
sp def: 71
speed: 108
Blaziken's base stats:
hp: 80
attack: 120
def: 70
sp att: 110
sp def: 70
speed: 80
The only major difference is speed.
As for move pool, they learn 58 of the same moves. Blaziken can learn a total of 79 moves, Infernape can learn 85. They share more than two thirds of their move pools. Coupled with having very similar stats and the same typing, they're almost as similar as two Pokemon can get.
Also, Brongong is heavily defensive while Metagross has high offensive stats. Roserade is somewhat similar to Venusaur, but has lower Attack and Defense while having greater stats on the Special side. If it had been the final form of a starter it probably would have been called a rip off, however it still isn't as close to Venusaur as Infernape is to Blaziken. Gyarados's best stat is attack, which happens to be Pelippers worst stat, the only stat that is anywhere near close is defense, and that's still over 30 points off.
Long story shot, I know my shit, Infernape is VERY similar to Blaziken, Blaziken came out first, Infernape was made in his image. Your arguments about other Pokemon being as similar as they are are invalid.
"By your logic, if a Pokemon shares similar stats with another, it's copying it."
Several Pokemon share similar stat distributions. With the sheer amount of Pokemon that there are, such a similarity couldn't labeled as one Pokemon ripping off another.
And the difference between Infernape and Blaziken is that Infernape trades superior attacking capabilities for higher speed - this sole difference alone completely changes how Infernape and Blaziken are used and which one is more appropriate for a specific situation and fulfilling a certain role in a team.
But you're forgetting the attacks which matter. Only Blaziken learns Brave Bird and Sky Uppercut. Infernape learns Close Combat, Calm Mind, and Nasty Plot. Beyond that, it doesn't matter whether they both learn Ember or not.
These differences - along with their stat distributions - are the primary reason why the two are so different, especially if you've actually trained and battled with both. Not to mention, they are completely different aesthetically, and the primary reason Infernape is labeled a rip-off is because it was a starter like Blaziken was.
Those were two random examples, and the first two I knew off the top of my head. There are many more - some of which are very similar, others of which are not - yet none of them are ever labeled rip-offs, especially not to the extent Infernape is.
Envoy
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^ Actually, they're used in pretty much the same way competitively. They're both excellent wallbreakers and sweepers. The big differences are the monkey trades power for speed and he has a slightly better movepool.
This means that the monkey is basically a better Blaziken. If you look at the third gen statistics and the UU sets for Blaziken, you'll realize that Infernape has pretty much replaced him. You have to play very similarly in order to do that.
This means that the monkey is basically a better Blaziken. If you look at the third gen statistics and the UU sets for Blaziken, you'll realize that Infernape has pretty much replaced him. You have to play very similarly in order to do that.
But Blaziken's superior Attack and Special Attack does allow it to hit harder. With a set that prioritizes on Defense and Attack rather than Speed, Blaziken can accomplish some things that Infernape couldn't. True, it is generally outclassed by Infernape, but not completely. It also gains access to a few great moves which Infernape doesn't.
Regardless... Tons of Pokemon share dual types and it's only natural one will be superior to the others. That doesn't give people the right to label that Pokemon a rip-off (I'm not saying you do, Envoy, but tons of others do).
Envoy
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I know you know this, but I feel I have to say it anyway:
I don't know weather to call Infernape a Blaziken rip-off or not, and frankly I couldn't care less. I dislike the monkey largely for it's aesthetics (it doesn't appeal to me), not it's stats or type or whatever.
But I do agree that two Pokemon sharing similar type and stats aren't necessarily ripoffs. As I said earlier, it's probably the fact that it was the Fire Starter that came right after the popular Blaziken that garners the most hate for the monkey. If it had shown up in Gen VII, chances are it wouldn't have been called a ripoff.
And by the way, Infernape is actually bulkier than Blaziken. It has 1 point more in both defenses.
EDIT: Wow this is off topic. Maybe we should take this to the Blaziken/Infernape thread.