Is Ash good enough to take down an Elite Four Pokemon?

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hhhhdmt

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i am not talking about ash actually winning a match vs an elite four member, but do you think he is ready to defeat atleast one pokemon of an elite four member?
Against Prima/Loreli, he was completely dominated. Drake dominated Ash’s pokemon with ease. Against Agatha, Ash manged to put up a very good fight. And against Flint, Pikachu did well vs Infernape, but the other two pokemon were destroyed with ease.
Do you guys think its finally time for ash to battle an elite four member and defeat atleast one of the Pokemon?
 
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I think that if he uses a team of his best he might be able to take down a couple of their Pokémon. For instance, if he'd used Kingler, Squirtle and Buizel against Flint he might have got through Infernape. I even think that he might have been able to take down Cynthia's Garchomp in a 6v6.
 
BlazeMaster said:
I think that if he uses a team of his best he might be able to take down a couple of their Pokémon. For instance, if he'd used Kingler, Squirtle and Buizel against Flint he might have got through Infernape. I even think that he might have been able to take down Cynthia's Garchomp in a 6v6.
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You remember how Infernape kicked Buizel's ass right? Swap him out with Palpitoad, who is immune to ThunderPunch and he might just make it then...
 
Gengarzilla said:
BlazeMaster said:
I think that if he uses a team of his best he might be able to take down a couple of their Pokémon. For instance, if he'd used Kingler, Squirtle and Buizel against Flint he might have got through Infernape. I even think that he might have been able to take down Cynthia's Garchomp in a 6v6.
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You remember how Infernape kicked Buizel's ass right? Swap him out with Palpitoad, who is immune to ThunderPunch and he might just make it then...
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Fair point, although Palpitoad might get over-excited about being with Ash, given the poor guy's lack of screentime.
 
BlazeMaster said:
Gengarzilla said:
You remember how Infernape kicked Buizel's ass right? Swap him out with Palpitoad, who is immune to ThunderPunch and he might just make it then...
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Fair point, although Palpitoad might get over-excited about being with Ash, given the poor guy's lack of screentime.
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Lol. Good point there.
 
People keep mentioning that Ash never beat one owned by single elite 4 member therefore he's no where near as powerful. But what people don't understand in my experience is that most of those battles were one on one. Ash did pretty fucking well Agatha. Scott mentioned that frontier brains are "every bit as strong as Agatha which seems consistent with the games. He almost beat Tyson who won the whole tournament.
 
That's a good point, however I don't understand why he has not knocked out a single elite four Pokemon yet. Brandon, alone, seems tougher than any of the elite four we have seen so far.

On a side note, I do wonder about how good tyson was. Yes he won the league but I don't know if he could have beaten the hoenn elite four
 
Basing on what was showed, i don't think Ash is strong and skilled enough to defeat E4 pokemon, let alone defeat elite four member in full battle. Even at his peak of strength during Sinnoh doing big improvement as trainer over course of series, it was pretty clear with Bertha or Flint how he is still miles away from that level, with such trainers being in whole another league. No matter how creative his strategies were or how much he trained his pokemon, they were always one, sometimes even two steps ahead with none of elite trainers he encountered ever being in difficult position. Instead they controlled flow of match from very start predicting all moves, with outcome getting decided in advance. Incredible resistance of their pokemon went a lot in their favor too.

Whether it was battle against Lorelei back in the day, against Drake before Hoenn league who defeated Sceptile and Pikachu easily, Agatha prior to BF which arguably didn't even went at full force with him leaving out impression of testing Ash out to see if his skills justify his reputation(Gengar was after all hits still in top condition). Or in Sinnoh where Bertha and Flint mopped floor with his pokemon with single Infernape being enough to defeat all three of Ash pokemon(one of best he had in DP arsenal).

Ash is good trainer, but imo he still lacks knowledge and experience to be able to stand on pair with one of best trainers in world. He is still quite brash and impulsive having several flaws which are standing on his way, not knowing how to utilize power of his pokemon to their true potential like champions or elite trainers do or connect with his pokemon in such harmony to work like one ,being at times overconfident overestimating his abilities as trainer costing him matches in process etc.

In future i have no doubts Ash will be able to one day challenge and defeat E4 members if he trains hard enough, and discovers new more effective ways of battling. But right now i don't think he is ready both physically and mentally to defeat elite four pokemon.

As for Frontier Brains, i don't think fact that Ask beat them means anything about him being ready to defeat E4. They were definitely stronger than gym leaders, and most typical trainers but they didn't showed level of skill and strength like E4 trainer or champion does taking battle under their control at every moment with every trainer which challenged them from what we saw not having chance to even put them in hard situation, let alone defeat even one pokemon.

Even at his best, Ash still struggled a lot against any elite member, being always behind during course of every battle he entered vs them. I wont even bring up Cynthia and total domination against Paul.
 
Thats an interesting post, but in fairness to ash, he had been training infernape for a very short time, in comparison flint has been training his infernape since he was a kid.


Ash has never gotten a chance to use his experienced Powerful pokemon vs the elite 4, like snorlax or charizard. Sceptile had not Fully evolved vs drake and he was at a massive type disadvantage.
 
hhhhdmt said:
Thats an interesting post, but in fairness to ash, he had been training infernape for a very short time, in comparison flint has been training his infernape since he was a kid.


Ash has never gotten a chance to use his experienced Powerful pokemon vs the elite 4, like snorlax or charizard. Sceptile had not Fully evolved vs drake and he was at a massive type disadvantage.
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True, though he used Pikachu four times against E4 members who is one of his mot trained and experienced pokemon(arguably among best too, defeating Brandon Regice and tying with Latios) still losing relatively easy against Cloyster, Shelgon, Gengar and Infernapel. So while i can't know for sure how would Snorlax or Charizard fare, basing on past experience i still think E4 would have upper hand there.

Partially i believe my presumption is justified by less experienced trainers managing to take down this pokemon, not being that much stronger than some of other Ash powerhouses which still couldn't keep up with E4 pokemon.Like Infernape or Torterra which were still very powerful by end of DP with later having big type advantage over Hippowdon, and Growyle was quite strong too with Ash cleverly using sails to turn disadvantage in his favor still not being enough.
 
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Its true That pikachu is strong and experienced, but it is also very small and thus Fragile. I am sure snorlax or char Would be able to Take more damage.

I still have a hari time believing That drakes shellgon or a gengar are more formidable opponents than articuno, regice etc
 
hhhhdmt said:
Its true That pikachu is strong and experienced, but it is also very small and thus Fragile. I am sure snorlax or char Would be able to Take more damage.

I still have a hari time believing That drakes shellgon or a gengar are more formidable opponents than articuno, regice etc
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Maybe so, but Pikachu showed incredible resistance at times having strong willpower to go on even when he is at edge of his abilities. We can see that plenty of times taking up more damage than some would expected still standing on his feet , and his agility helps him a lot against bigger sized opponents too.
But fair enough, Charizard and similar to him are definitely more resistant.

About legendary pokemon, they are in practice more powerful than majority of common pokemon, but i believe Ash Pikachu and Charizard showed how if other pokemon train a lot learning new strategies to improve their speed and effectiveness, they have chance to even keep up with some of legendary.
So it doesn't surprise me that E4 member pokemon would be harder to defeat than this two pokemon Ash encountered.
Of course that doesn't guarantee they would always have such success against legendary , if other pokemon of such specie prove to be even stronger.
 
In my opinion, He can if he uses a mixed team from previous regions. because he even beat Articuno, Latios and even Darkrai.
but he might need a little bit of training.
 
Paul mopped the floor with Ash but Ash beat Paul. Just because theycreamed one pokemon with one pokemon doesn't mean Ash doesn't have chance. People have bad days and one on one battles prove nothing cause they are SO short. The Flint 3 on 3 was the ONLY piece of compelling evidence IMO and that was one time. And almost beating Tyson is compelling evidence is because the winner of the tournament is the strongest person seeking a challenge so that would put Tyson right under them, unless all strongest people are in training at the same time or a tournament win gives you a permanent elite 4 challenge and every one who has a chance already one.
 
I dont think the cynthia beating paul argument works That well. Ash is a much better trainer than paul. He defeated paul despite starting out all over again. Paul, however was using pokemon That he had obtained earlier.
 
I thinks so. Every time he's fought and lost to an e4 member has been a mixture of poor choices and his pokemon just not being ready, IMO.(Drake) Pikachu and Grovyle just didn't match up well against dragon pokemon.(Flint) Infernape had just evolved and wasn't ready for Flint's Infernape. Pikachu was OK, didn't really get a good hit in though. Buizel just got over powered. It was a great choice but he also needs much more battle experience before he's ready to fight an e4 pokemon. (Prima/Agatha) Pikachu did pretty good in both of these battles. He got at least 1 solid hit in both. So ignoring the fact I think most of his pokemon (with 3 or 4 exceptions) need more training I still think, with good enough choices, he could fair pretty well in say a 4 on 4 battle with an e4 member.

For example Marshal of the Unova e4. I could maybe see Ash putting up a decent fight against him. Lets say he chose Swellow, Staraptor, Pikachu, and Noctowl (who can also use psychic moves). Staraptor and Swellow have both shown they're above average. Pikachu is Pikachu. And Noctowl matches up PERFECTLY with Marshal's team. So yeah, it just really depends on who he's fighting and if he chooses good match ups.
 
Umbreon19 said:
For example Marshal of the Unova e4. I could maybe see Ash putting up a decent fight against him. Lets say he chose Swellow, Staraptor, Pikachu, and Noctowl (who can also use psychic moves). Staraptor and Swellow have both shown they're above average. Pikachu is Pikachu. And Noctowl matches up PERFECTLY with Marshal's team. So yeah, it just really depends on who he's fighting and if he chooses good match ups.
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A good point, but Marshal's Pokemon may have a few Rock type moves, which makes Gliscor the best choice in that case. If only the bat had learnt a Flying type move.
 
I think it would depend on who he was facing, what Pokemon he chose to use and his strategy. Based on those kind of variables, I think that Ash could put up a really good fight and maybe even come close to winning, but I don't think he's ready to defeat an Elite 4 Pokemon just yet. The amount of experience and strength in an Elite 4 Pokemon would tip it in their favor during the battle and even if Ash planned out what Pokemon to use, I could still see him getting overconfident or getting carried away with the excitement of the battle and making mistakes that cost him the match.
 
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