Is one year enough to make a good Pokemon game?

[Boss1708]

This thread occured to me as I was reading comments on forums today and a guy (who probably didn´t know Masuda confirmed that ORAS were developed in around one year) said that a game couldn´t be made in one year so ORAS probably were being developed from an earlier stage.

So the questions are:

1. Is one year enough to make a good Pokemon game, and was ORAS really incomplete and rushed, or the opposite? (both opinions have supporters) Did it hold back features intentionally (to promote them in the next games) or due to time limits? Would they have added more content in ORAS if they had more time or did they accomplish everything they wanted in ORAS and wouldn't have added anything even if they had more time and were not pressured for a Christmas release?

2. How much time should GameFreak invest in: a) new games from a new generation (like XY); b) Remakes from an older gen (like ORAS); and c) Third versions/sequels from the current generation (like Platinumor B2W2).

3. Are you happy with the new philosophy of yearly releases?

4. And the most important question: Are GameFreak becoming better over the years, and therefore more capable of doing high-quality games in a shorter time span then before (which would explain ORAS being made in a year), or are their games becoming less good over the years due to shorter time spans of production ?

EDIT: On a sidenote: Ohmori said that when he was asked to be the diretor for ORAS (November 2012 I think) they were HALFWAY through the developement of XY, which would mean XY were produced in two years, more or less.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

First of, I don't think the one year is enough to make a new game. ORAS was incomplete and rushed which is one reason why I dislike it. I don't know if it hadhold back features but I don't see the Battle Frontier coming back. Second, I say a year and a half or may 2 years for game freak to invest in the games. Lastly, I am not sure if I am ok with the yearly releases after what happen with ORAS.

 

[The Outrage]

They *always* intentionally hold back features even when release schedules were more dispersed. ORAS basically lifted Emerald's plot and re-arranged it a bit to create the Delta Episode, but in terms of new plot-related content, it was lacking.

We know for a fact that Game Freak had a store of unreleased Mega Evolution since XY's release. In an interview, Masuda mentioned that the Mega Kanto starters were put in XY after the fact because he just liked them so much that he wanted people to start using them. This would explain why your rivals never used their Kanto starters (since it was probably added after their teams were finalized and programmed), but also suggests that content was being held back. Furthermore, we had data on Mega Latios and Mega Latias in ORAS, suggesting that they may have been excluded from the games at a later stage as well.

Then there's the lack of the Battle Frontier. Okay, so the originals didn't have a Battle Frontier, maybe we could live with that. But then teasing us by saying "we're going to build one here in the future!" when you know full well you won't? That's just downright awful. I'm hoping Masuda reverses his stance on DLC, since extraneous features like the Battle Frontier could have been added after-the-fact if they didn't have time to include it into the games before its slated release date.

I doubt anyone would say that as a game, ORAS was incomplete--perhaps lacking in certain features--but Masuda's comment that he thinks games with DLC are selling incomplete content makes me think that he has the perception that if a game has DLC, then it wasn't completed in the first place. At worst, games like Mario Kart withheld content to make a profit later, but it'll be a cold day in the Distortion World before Game Freak can take the moral high ground on that considering their practices with third versions (and literally almost sold two Grey versions in Gen V).

 

[godiego]

it looks like the average production time for a Pokemon game ranges from two to three years. that being said, there doesn't seem to be any relationship between the production time and the quality. XY presumably took two years and it's no better than BW2, which also took around two years. i think the quality of a Pokemon game is all determined on what GameFreak feels like; they typically end the generation on a high note (Emerald, HGSS/Platinum, and BW2 are all substantially better than the initial entries of their gen), and intentionally withholds features as a sort of incentive. i don't think there's anything other than that.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Hmm, well it's hard to say if the lack of features is because of development time or intentional planning, we don't really know much about what goes on behind the scenes aside from corporate PR bullshit. But I do think spending a little more time on the games would do some good for the games.

it looks like the average production time for a Pokemon game ranges from two to three years. that being said, there doesn't seem to be any relationship between the production time and the quality. XY presumably took two years and it's no better than BW2, which also took around two years. i think the quality of a Pokemon game is all determined on what GameFreak feels like; they typically end the generation on a high note (Emerald, HGSS/Platinum, and BW2 are all substantially better than the initial entries of their gen), and intentionally withholds features as a sort of incentive. i don't think there's anything other than that.

There's a little more to this than that. Compare DP and BW1 with XY and HGSS with ORAS. There's much less content in the 6th gen games than their past gen equivalents. XY has almost nothing to do outside of the main quest whereas even DP and BW1 had a set of post game areas and a couple of side features. And then HGSS included everything from GSC and then some, adding in a ton of new content and bringing a lot of things back from RBYFRLG, whereas not only did ORAS not expand much on RSE, but it left out pretty much everything from Emerald. There's been a definite decrease in content this gen and there's two possible factors involved: the extra effort it takes to make 3D games or the trend towards mobile style gaming and the desire to strip the games down to accommodate it. So which is it?

 

[CynthiaLover]

I'm with The Outrage on this. Game designers hold back intentionally so that you will buy future games. If they designed the "perfect game", then no one will be willing to buy the next generation/sequel because the previous version was perfect, and any flaws the next gen might have would be immediately pointed out compared to its predecessor. While a year to make a game can be a bit rushed, if one looks at the current day technology available to them, it's still enough time to belt out a good enough game. I'm quite fond of ORAS, though I do admit it's lacking in some fields. Incomplete? No. Could've been refined more? Yes. But overall I'm pleased with ORAS, so I feel that, despite the rush, it still did well regardless. It certainly was an upgrade from XY, which was lacking in many fields and very unbalanced at times, but it served its purpose, as it was the first major step for Pokemon to enter the 3D world outside of games like PBR and such. Not to mention GF had a boatload of Megas to add in that XY didn't have, so they had to put them somewhere, even if they belted out a game rather quickly. However, I do feel that ORAS was in the works for a bit longer than that, possibly around XY being developed, it was just announced and completed during that year time frame. Sure, I admit, there are some fields it lacks and too many taunts in the game that may never be added (like the Battle Frontier), but it was overall a good set of games. But, for the most part, I agree with The Outrage.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I don't see a problem with holding back in some aspects, like I wouldn't expect one game to have Contests, Secret Bases, Pokeathlon, Join Avenue, Rhyhorn Racing, Tea Parties, Egg Drops, or whatever the hell else they decide to do because it would make the games too homogenized and boring and would decrease incentive to buy them. But I do think every game should have a certain level of content and have certain types of features (for instance, every region should have at least 2 side features and some neat apps) and I don't want them to hold back content to the point where the games feel like there's not enough to do.

 

[Boss1708]

What I REALLY want to know about is: is it REALLY THAT DIFFICULT AND IMPOSSIBLE to make a complete game in one year NOWADAYS? Especially a REMAKE? Because, everybody seems believe that one year is not enough to make a complete game (and therefore they consider ORAS was rushed), even a remade game from a previous generation.

Even people like the guy I mention above who is very happy with ORAS and can't believe they were made in a year.

Have we, fans, missed some kind of an improvement or new technology (or an increase in number of developers) that has allowed GameFreak to work faster than before and so fans are surprised as they are not used to the new pace nowadays ? Or have they blended their two former teams in one big team to work faster? Ohmori confirmed in an interview that a team of around 100 people worked on ORAS during this one year development period, which is their complete team of developers I think. Could this be the reason they finished ORAS in a year? More people working on it than normally?

 

[godiego]

There's a little more to this than that. Compare DP and BW1 with XY and HGSS with ORAS. There's much less content in the 6th gen games than their past gen equivalents. XY has almost nothing to do outside of the main quest whereas even DP and BW1 had a set of post game areas and a couple of side features. And then HGSS included everything from GSC and then some, adding in a ton of new content and bringing a lot of things back from RBYFRLG, whereas not only did ORAS not expand much on RSE, but it left out pretty much everything from Emerald. There's been a definite decrease in content this gen and there's two possible factors involved: the extra effort it takes to make 3D games or the trend towards mobile style gaming and the desire to strip the games down to accommodate it. So which is it?

i don't think it's really all that much. they all have the same lack of post-game and i think it's a stretch to think that they all have more than XY.

 

[Bolt Strike]

There's a little more to this than that. Compare DP and BW1 with XY and HGSS with ORAS. There's much less content in the 6th gen games than their past gen equivalents. XY has almost nothing to do outside of the main quest whereas even DP and BW1 had a set of post game areas and a couple of side features. And then HGSS included everything from GSC and then some, adding in a ton of new content and bringing a lot of things back from RBYFRLG, whereas not only did ORAS not expand much on RSE, but it left out pretty much everything from Emerald. There's been a definite decrease in content this gen and there's two possible factors involved: the extra effort it takes to make 3D games or the trend towards mobile style gaming and the desire to strip the games down to accommodate it. So which is it?

i don't think it's really all that much. they all have the same lack of post-game and i think it's a stretch to think that they all have more than XY.

Not at all. DP and BW1 actually have a lot of extra content for generation debut games, they have tons of post game areas, a lot of Pokemon to catch in post game, several extra features (DP had Contests and Sinnoh Underground, BW1 had Musicals). XY has very few optional areas and almost no post game areas, no extra features, and less Pokemon to catch in post game. XY has significantly less than the last few generations, no question.

 

[ocelotlrama jaguar]

What I REALLY want to know about is: is it REALLY THAT DIFFICULT AND IMPOSSIBLE to make a complete game in one year NOWADAYS? Especially a REMAKE? Because, everybody seems believe that one year is not enough to make a complete game, even a remade game from a previous generation. Even people like the guy I mention above who is very happy with ORAS and can't believe they were made in a year. Have we, fans, missed some kind of an improvement or new technology (or an increase in number of developers, or a blend of their two former teams A and B in one big team to work faster) that has allowed GameFreak to work faster than before and so fans are surprised as they are not used to the new pace nowadays ?

While not impossible, typically games that are rushed tend to be not very good, yet while it was not that great, X and Y looked and played like games that took longer than a year to make. Same thing with ORAS. I'm pretty sure they were in the works for longer than a year without us knowing. They don't just start making the games when they are announced.

 

[~ Blazing White Yang]

it looks like the average production time for a Pokemon game ranges from two to three years. that being said, there doesn't seem to be any relationship between the production time and the quality. XY presumably took two years and it's no better than BW2, which also took around two years. i think the quality of a Pokemon game is all determined on what GameFreak feels like; they typically end the generation on a high note (Emerald, HGSS/Platinum, and BW2 are all substantially better than the initial entries of their gen), and intentionally withholds features as a sort of incentive. i don't think there's anything other than that.

Actually...

It took three and a half years to develop this game.
Taking into account the localization groups for each language,
more than five hundred people were involved in the development.

HIDDEN POWER of masuda

...And in all likelihood, the hardware jump, new Region, and new game mechanics were more of a priority in developing XY than extras. Games like BW2 have an advantage in that they're largely just expansions. The core game and setting are already there, and their whole purpose is to add on to them with more purchase incentives.

Although what makes me less lenient is that 1) DLC is a thing now, so we could have expansion post-release for anything that they may have missed...Yet they'd still rather we buy another $40 game for something like the Mega Stones, tutors, or basic connectivity...And 2) Does it really take that much development time to implement already recurring elements like tutors and rematches? :/ All new battle facilities and side-games, okay, but some of this stuff should be standard by now.

I would say that both time and the Corporate Commander are at work to some degree.

 

[Boss1708]

Actually...

It took three and a half years to develop this game.
Taking into account the localization groups for each language,
more than five hundred people were involved in the development.

HIDDEN POWER of masuda

...And in all likelihood, the hardware jump, new Region, and new game mechanics were more of a priority in developing XY than extras. Games like BW2 have an advantage in that they're largely just expansions. The core game and setting are already there, and their whole purpose is to add on to them with more purchase incentives.

Although what makes me less lenient is that 1) DLC is a thing now, so we could have expansion post-release for anything that they may have missed...Yet they'd still rather we buy another $40 game for something like the Mega Stones, tutors, or basic connectivity...And 2) Does it really take that much development time to implement already recurring elements like tutors and rematches? :/ All new battle facilities and side-games, okay, but some of this stuff should be standard by now.

I would say that both time and the Corporate Commander are at work to some degree.

This includes Junichi's inspirational period and brainstorming previous to the actual production, which took 2 years.
Same with ORAS, Ohmori started brainstorming and deciding the shape of ORAS in November 2012, but the game production started just after the Kalos games were finished and took them one year more or less. Which sounds kinda reasonable as it is a remake.

 

[godiego]

Not at all. DP and BW1 actually have a lot of extra content for generation debut games, they have tons of post game areas, a lot of Pokemon to catch in post game, several extra features (DP had Contests and Sinnoh Underground, BW1 had Musicals). XY has very few optional areas and almost no post game areas, no extra features, and less Pokemon to catch in post game. XY has significantly less than the last few generations, no question.

that's an exaggeration. i'll give you that DP and BW1 may have had more areas, but XY has just as much extra features.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Not at all. DP and BW1 actually have a lot of extra content for generation debut games, they have tons of post game areas, a lot of Pokemon to catch in post game, several extra features (DP had Contests and Sinnoh Underground, BW1 had Musicals). XY has very few optional areas and almost no post game areas, no extra features, and less Pokemon to catch in post game. XY has significantly less than the last few generations, no question.

that's an exaggeration. i'll give you that DP and BW1 may have had more areas, but XY has just as much extra features.

DP:
Sinnoh Underground
Contests
Game Corner
Safari Zone
Battle Tower

BW:
Musicals
Entralink
Royal Unova
Battle Subway

XY:
Battle Chateau
Battle Maison
Friend Safari

Yeah, no. XY only has 2 battle facilities and a dumbed down Safari Zone, DP and BW1 have more.

 

[godiego]

DP:
Sinnoh Underground
Contests
Game Corner
Safari Zone
Battle Tower

BW:
Musicals
Entralink
Royal Unova
Battle Subway

XY:
Battle Chateau
Battle Maison
Friend Safari

Yeah, no. XY only has 2 battle facilities and a dumbed down Safari Zone, DP and BW1 have more.

yeah well then there's also Super Training, PSS, Amie, Hotel Richissime, maxing out style/getting all the clothes, the four restaurants, Trainer PR Vids, hunting down every Mega stone (a bitch without a guide), Battle Institute, collecting O-Powers, getting all your skate tricks and the Looker quest. hell, there's probably more that i'm leaving out. there is a lot more to do in XY, people just don't want to do it.

 

[Bolt Strike]

DP:
Sinnoh Underground
Contests
Game Corner
Safari Zone
Battle Tower

BW:
Musicals
Entralink
Royal Unova
Battle Subway

XY:
Battle Chateau
Battle Maison
Friend Safari

Yeah, no. XY only has 2 battle facilities and a dumbed down Safari Zone, DP and BW1 have more.

yeah well then there's also Super Training, PSS, Amie, Hotel Richissime, maxing out style/getting all the clothes, the four restaurants, Trainer PR Vids, hunting down every Mega stone (a bitch without a guide), Battle Institute, collecting O-Powers, getting all your skate tricks and the Looker quest. hell, there's probably more that i'm leaving out. there is a lot more to do in XY, people just don't want to do it.

You can play that game with DP and BW1. DP has collecting all of the Poketch apps, Honey trees, ribbons, Amity Square, seals, and Pal Park. BW1 had the Battle Institute, Passerby survey, Sports Domes, Triple/Rotation battle house, and Abyssal Ruins. There's just plain more to do in DP and BW1 than XY no matter which way you look at it.

 

[godiego]

You can play that game with DP and BW1. DP has collecting all of the Poketch apps, Honey trees, ribbons, Amity Square, seals, and Pal Park. BW1 had the Battle Institute, Passerby survey, Sports Domes, Triple/Rotation battle house, and Abyssal Ruins. There's just plain more to do in DP and BW1 than XY no matter which way you look at it.

Honey trees aren't extra content; they're just a unique encounter. after all, i didn't include horde battles. Ribbons aren't exclusive to DP and Pal Park requires a previous generation and a DS/DS Lite. Passerby Survey (and arguably the Underground as well) don't count because they require you to be in close contact with other players or own multiple DS.

your math is weird because with the extra content in XY, it pulls ahead of DP and BW1.

 

[The Infidel]

Becoming more and more sure you work for Nintendo/Game Freak, @godiego;
Then again with the way I've been slagging them off for the past 2 years (honestly i am still a fan) you might think I worked for Sony

I think we should have yearly releases, but Game Freak devotes at least 2 years to each game. ie they have 1 team work on A, while a year late team 2 start on B, they release one, then B release one the year after, at which point team 1 would have had another 2 years.

If you need 3 years mr masuda, add a 3rd team.

I agree with many others, game freak, deliberately withhold content. and yes i can see why, but the amount they hold back is getting larger and larger.

XY feel very imcomplete, more incomplete than DP or BW even imho.

 

[godiego]

Becoming more and more sure you work for Nintendo/Game Freak, Godiego

well someone's uncle has to.