Sweet Veil
Bright Days
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2010
- Messages
- 4,577
- Reaction score
- 118
Personally I have no problem with it.
Last edited by a moderator:
-
A reminder that Forum Moderator applications are currently still open! If you're interested in joining an active team of moderators for one of the biggest Pokémon forums on the internet, click here for info.
-
Due to the recent changes with Twitter's API, it is no longer possible for Bulbagarden forum users to login via their Twitter account. If you signed up to Bulbagarden via Twitter and do not have another way to login, please contact us here with your Twitter username so that we can get you sorted.
Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" deal?
- Thread starter Sweet Veil
- Start date
- Status
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
Neither do I, really. But then again, I don't want a Pawniard to beat a Mienfoo (just an example) just by using moves, that aren't that effective against Mienfoo, without having any strategy, 'cause that would be to go overboard and it'd only be very lousy writing.
If a Pokémon is in a disadvantage I want it to win by using strategies, smooth moves and not just to rush in action.
Neither do I, really. But then again, I don't want a Pawniard to beat a Mienfoo (just an example) just by using moves, that aren't that effective against Mienfoo, without having any strategy, 'cause that would be to go overboard and it'd only be very lousy writing.
If a Pokémon is in a disadvantage I want it to win by using strategies, smooth moves and not just to rush in action.
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
I agree, that's part of what made the battles in AG and DP good, because even though the writers had Satoshi use pokémon that were at a type disadvantage sometimes, it wasn't to often, it it was almost always justified with a strategy and if there weren't any strategy, the pokémon at a disadvantage would most likely lose the battle. The problem is, BW really hasn't delivered in that departement. The battles lack strategy, finesse and feel very much like game battles in that it's just two trainers exchanging attacks without much of anything else, and therefore, they're not justifying the type disadvantage wins.
EDIT: The lone exception was Corn v Satoshi in the Sanyou Gym Battle. That battle was written perfectly.
I agree, that's part of what made the battles in AG and DP good, because even though the writers had Satoshi use pokémon that were at a type disadvantage sometimes, it wasn't to often, it it was almost always justified with a strategy and if there weren't any strategy, the pokémon at a disadvantage would most likely lose the battle. The problem is, BW really hasn't delivered in that departement. The battles lack strategy, finesse and feel very much like game battles in that it's just two trainers exchanging attacks without much of anything else, and therefore, they're not justifying the type disadvantage wins.
EDIT: The lone exception was Corn v Satoshi in the Sanyou Gym Battle. That battle was written perfectly.
Last edited:
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
They been doing it since season 1. I see no problem with it. I see it as part of the show with Pikachu defeating ground type/normal attacks hitting ghost Pokemon.
They been doing it since season 1. I see no problem with it. I see it as part of the show with Pikachu defeating ground type/normal attacks hitting ghost Pokemon.
Tye Taylors
You Know The Name
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2011
- Messages
- 3,269
- Reaction score
- 0
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
Need I remind you of "Yeah pikachu if you train your electricity you can somehow electricute onix" FTW
Need I remind you of "Yeah pikachu if you train your electricity you can somehow electricute onix" FTW
Green Zubat
Have a pancake.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2010
- Messages
- 1,257
- Reaction score
- 0
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
I touched on this in one of my blogs, but yeah, it definitely is IMO. I think they just like to throw the unfavourable type match-up in for drama when they can't think of anything else to spice things up and make us go "how will Ash get out of this one?" but they're more often than not too lazy to actually come up with something really clever to surprise us with, opting instead to just let us watch Ash level up for a while before going back and kicking the opponent's ass (lame).
Hey, you laugh at Onix electrocution but that actually made a little sense, considering that it didn't work until the sprinklers came on (and - as we know - impure water conducts electricity).
I touched on this in one of my blogs, but yeah, it definitely is IMO. I think they just like to throw the unfavourable type match-up in for drama when they can't think of anything else to spice things up and make us go "how will Ash get out of this one?" but they're more often than not too lazy to actually come up with something really clever to surprise us with, opting instead to just let us watch Ash level up for a while before going back and kicking the opponent's ass (lame).
Hey, you laugh at Onix electrocution but that actually made a little sense, considering that it didn't work until the sprinklers came on (and - as we know - impure water conducts electricity).
Last edited:
Tye Taylors
You Know The Name
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2011
- Messages
- 3,269
- Reaction score
- 0
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
But it wouldn't run a current through onix...because of the boulders he is made of
But it wouldn't run a current through onix...because of the boulders he is made of
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2010
- Messages
- 7,026
- Reaction score
- 3,790
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
I don't see any problem with it.
It can work in the games too...on occasion, so why can't it work here?
I don't see any problem with it.
It can work in the games too...on occasion, so why can't it work here?
Green Zubat
Have a pancake.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2010
- Messages
- 1,257
- Reaction score
- 0
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
Well, in all fairness we don't actually know the anatomy of an Onix - for all we know those "boulders" could actually just be really thick mineral coats for softer, organic body segments beneath (a bit like a Crinoid). If the water got into the joints & reached the organic parts then it could provide a pathway along with electricity could flow towards them, hurting Onix.
Still, Devil's Advocate aside, my point was that it was cleverer than having Ash just go through some training montage, which ultimately just preaches brawn > brain :/
It was better in the Pokémon Tech episode (Kanto), where they at least made the "level over type" thing seem strategic, with Weepinbel getting kocked out by Starmie, who was then subsequently knocked out by Graveler. The way they do it now though (with Ash reverting to "must train harder" as opposed to "must think up good strategy") doesn't really seem to encourage intelligent thinking, nor is it more interesting. Just lame lame lame.
Well, in all fairness we don't actually know the anatomy of an Onix - for all we know those "boulders" could actually just be really thick mineral coats for softer, organic body segments beneath (a bit like a Crinoid). If the water got into the joints & reached the organic parts then it could provide a pathway along with electricity could flow towards them, hurting Onix.
Still, Devil's Advocate aside, my point was that it was cleverer than having Ash just go through some training montage, which ultimately just preaches brawn > brain :/
It was better in the Pokémon Tech episode (Kanto), where they at least made the "level over type" thing seem strategic, with Weepinbel getting kocked out by Starmie, who was then subsequently knocked out by Graveler. The way they do it now though (with Ash reverting to "must train harder" as opposed to "must think up good strategy") doesn't really seem to encourage intelligent thinking, nor is it more interesting. Just lame lame lame.
Last edited:
Tye Taylors
You Know The Name
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2011
- Messages
- 3,269
- Reaction score
- 0
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
Yeah, but I really hate the mini montages for training pikachu and then it can instantly do crazy shit
Yeah, but I really hate the mini montages for training pikachu and then it can instantly do crazy shit
Lufenium
#1 Iron Valiant Fan
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2010
- Messages
- 2,388
- Reaction score
- 2,391
- Pronouns
- He/Him
- Any
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
I'll take a small step beyond the thread subject here.
Swellow's "Thunder Armour" was one of the most bizarre things in the Anime.
Pikachu's incident where he used the force of the Hyper Beam to jump over the attack was another that baffled me.
But, in Anime as a whole, I think a lot of logic-defying things happen. The main character does something stupid or risky, and it pays off, and they succeed. Fairy Tail and Bleach are notorious for pulling such stunts.
I'll take a small step beyond the thread subject here.
Swellow's "Thunder Armour" was one of the most bizarre things in the Anime.
Pikachu's incident where he used the force of the Hyper Beam to jump over the attack was another that baffled me.
But, in Anime as a whole, I think a lot of logic-defying things happen. The main character does something stupid or risky, and it pays off, and they succeed. Fairy Tail and Bleach are notorious for pulling such stunts.
Jukain
Aka: Sceptile
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2003
- Messages
- 5,869
- Reaction score
- 842
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
I will agree it's done well if there is a strategy involved to overcome a pokemon's weakness, or have a move that counters the type you're weak to. Having a bad matchup win the day has been prevalent in the anime since the beginning, and by now I just live with it. No, it doesn't make sense if they make a poke that's weak against it's opponent win for no reason. I don't even believe it to be an entirely good message. Yes, it is good to not give up on the things you care about, but sometimes, you fail for a reason, and that is because you're doing it wrong. You can believe all you want, but it won't instantly make you succeed. You need a plan, a strategy, and then the motivation to do it. I also don't like when they overlook type alignments to do this. (moves working on things that they're not supposed to) It's not like they don't exist in anime canon, so I don't know why they do it other than for convenience. All in all, I can see what they're trying to do, but their execution is lacking.
I will agree it's done well if there is a strategy involved to overcome a pokemon's weakness, or have a move that counters the type you're weak to. Having a bad matchup win the day has been prevalent in the anime since the beginning, and by now I just live with it. No, it doesn't make sense if they make a poke that's weak against it's opponent win for no reason. I don't even believe it to be an entirely good message. Yes, it is good to not give up on the things you care about, but sometimes, you fail for a reason, and that is because you're doing it wrong. You can believe all you want, but it won't instantly make you succeed. You need a plan, a strategy, and then the motivation to do it. I also don't like when they overlook type alignments to do this. (moves working on things that they're not supposed to) It's not like they don't exist in anime canon, so I don't know why they do it other than for convenience. All in all, I can see what they're trying to do, but their execution is lacking.
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
I do think they're going a wee bit overboard with this currently, and it is especially jarring when we've just come off a series where he was actually more prone to using pokemon with a type advantage over the opponent, rather than ones without. At times, it feels as if Ash is deliberately putting himself at a disadvantage, which is frustrating as a viewer since I'm not sure whether to roll my eyes or commend him for giving himself a challenge.
Ordinarily this kind of thing has never bothered me too much. I have to echo the sentiments of others who have said that it's cool to see when Ash manages to overcome the disadvantage with a good strategy. But with that said, there haven't really been any particularly strategic fights thus far this series, so it just comes across as Ash being needlessly reckless.
I do think they're going a wee bit overboard with this currently, and it is especially jarring when we've just come off a series where he was actually more prone to using pokemon with a type advantage over the opponent, rather than ones without. At times, it feels as if Ash is deliberately putting himself at a disadvantage, which is frustrating as a viewer since I'm not sure whether to roll my eyes or commend him for giving himself a challenge.
Ordinarily this kind of thing has never bothered me too much. I have to echo the sentiments of others who have said that it's cool to see when Ash manages to overcome the disadvantage with a good strategy. But with that said, there haven't really been any particularly strategic fights thus far this series, so it just comes across as Ash being needlessly reckless.
MarshiyanMisutaa
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2008
- Messages
- 8,658
- Reaction score
- 6,805
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
I have no problem as long as it's entertaining.
I have no problem as long as it's entertaining.
DynoStretch
This Space For Rent
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2011
- Messages
- 199
- Reaction score
- 132
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
Honestly I don't care if they want to show type advantage effectiveness, try to write battles that go against types, or just quit in the middle of writing the episode to go get drunk and play ping-pong.
I would however, like for them to pick a side and stick to it!!
I'll bring up a hilarious part of Hoenn where Ash battled a guy's Duslcops with Pikachu. Pikachu rushes Dusclops with Quick Attack and it has no effect, and we're told normal attacks like that aren't effective on ghost types. Sure, I'll go with that.
Then the very next episode, Skitty is hitting around that very same Dusclops with Doubleslap, also a normal attack!
Writers, stop with the being not making sense! It's causing me to not type sentences properly!
Honestly I don't care if they want to show type advantage effectiveness, try to write battles that go against types, or just quit in the middle of writing the episode to go get drunk and play ping-pong.
I would however, like for them to pick a side and stick to it!!
I'll bring up a hilarious part of Hoenn where Ash battled a guy's Duslcops with Pikachu. Pikachu rushes Dusclops with Quick Attack and it has no effect, and we're told normal attacks like that aren't effective on ghost types. Sure, I'll go with that.
Then the very next episode, Skitty is hitting around that very same Dusclops with Doubleslap, also a normal attack!
Writers, stop with the being not making sense! It's causing me to not type sentences properly!
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2010
- Messages
- 2,953
- Reaction score
- 1,022
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
As long as it's not too farfetched (sp?) I'm generally OK with it; they're certainly not as bad as OHKO's. Though besides that, I do hate inconsistency--as mentioned above--and whenever move types work against Pokemon that are supposed to be immune to the attack. The writers seem to be doing better with that every series however, though they still don't seem to know that Shadow Ball is supposed to be a Ghost-type move or that Flying-types like Tranquil are part Normal-type.
I think mis-matched type victories can be more entertaining anyway.
As long as it's not too farfetched (sp?) I'm generally OK with it; they're certainly not as bad as OHKO's. Though besides that, I do hate inconsistency--as mentioned above--and whenever move types work against Pokemon that are supposed to be immune to the attack. The writers seem to be doing better with that every series however, though they still don't seem to know that Shadow Ball is supposed to be a Ghost-type move or that Flying-types like Tranquil are part Normal-type.
I think mis-matched type victories can be more entertaining anyway.
JohnnyCool708
Observer
- Joined
- May 26, 2008
- Messages
- 599
- Reaction score
- 11
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
I really don't think anything has changed. The same has been true since episode 1, and won't change. Yes, it is very overkill at times but the quality (or the lack thereof) supports Pokemon's signiture corniness. And on a side note, I happened to be estatic at the sight of "Thunder Armor".
^And lol to the shadow ball comment. That and energy ball to a smaller extent.
I really don't think anything has changed. The same has been true since episode 1, and won't change. Yes, it is very overkill at times but the quality (or the lack thereof) supports Pokemon's signiture corniness. And on a side note, I happened to be estatic at the sight of "Thunder Armor".
^And lol to the shadow ball comment. That and energy ball to a smaller extent.
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
One thing that bugs me was James commanding Yamask to attack Tranquill with Shadow Ball. Its never explicitly shown that it hurt Tranquill but its a bit weird that he did it the second time around.
One thing that bugs me was James commanding Yamask to attack Tranquill with Shadow Ball. Its never explicitly shown that it hurt Tranquill but its a bit weird that he did it the second time around.
Ranger Jack Walker
Not a Power Ranger
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2008
- Messages
- 4,449
- Reaction score
- 17
Re: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" d
It seems that the writers are intentionally having Ash use Pokemon at a disadvantage. Its perfectly understandable when he is out of other Pokemon or that particular Pokemon has a history with the other but would it kill them to have Ash use a type advantage when he can?
It seems that the writers are intentionally having Ash use Pokemon at a disadvantage. Its perfectly understandable when he is out of other Pokemon or that particular Pokemon has a history with the other but would it kill them to have Ash use a type advantage when he can?
- Status