Is there a market for an Uncut PM Dub?

[PokeSpirit]

Howdy all,

I was just thinking this today and I am curious on your opinions. I certainly visit Dogasu's Backpack often and I am becoming more of a fan of the original (especially the earlier seasons). There are a group of fans as well who like the original over the Dub.

By no means do I want this to dissolve into a Raw/Sub vs. Dub debate. Not whatsoever. But I am curious on your opinions if an Uncut release of PM could be a commercial success? They could play on the whole nostalgia angle and get people hooked in, but personally I don't think it would be a wide success, considering the Anime isn't nearly as popular as it was in it's hey-day and people are so use to the Dub, I feel there just isn't a market for the original version. If they included a Japanese track on the DVDs, it probably wouldn't increase sales much, so I am curious on opinions on this.

 

[Dogasu]

No.

There are a number of reasons:

- The overwhelming majority of the fandom, both online and off, feel that the current dub is good enough. There aren't any major changes, in the grand scheme of things, and people have had years and years to get attached to the current dub. A new dub would basically be asking people to throw away ten year's worth of nostalgia just so they can see Satoshi get slapped and a few Japanese symbols in town somewhere.

- A large number of the rewrites - like those untranslatable puns - would remain. We'd still get "Cowterpie" in an uncut dub, and "Girls' Day" would probably still get changed to "Princess Day."

- When FUNimation redubbed the first two seasons of Dragon Ball Z, they simply recycled the old script from 1996 for the new version. I would expect the budget-conscious TPCI to do the same; after all, why hire someone to worry about writing a script that matches the mouth flaps when that's already been done?

- Fans would complain about the new dub like there's no tomorrow. "Why did they change this line...the old one was better." "The music sounds weird here." -Banned Topic Complaint-. "I liked the old name better." etc, etc.

- Nintendo is, understandably, very protective of the franchise's image. Releasing any product with the words "Pokemon" and "Uncut" on it would open them up to all sorts of outcry from irrational soccer moms. They'd be furious at the idea that Pokemon, a show they assumed to be kid-friendly, could have a "dark side." Slapping a "Teen" label on the box wouldn't be enough.

- Doing an uncut dub would require a redub, which means TPCI's group of voice actors would be coming in to dub over what the old 4Kids VAs did. "Rage" wouldn't even begin to describe the emotions the 4Kids fans would feel if such a thing were to happen.

If an uncut dub was ever going to be released, it would have come out years ago. But it's been over twelve years now; by this point, the only rational thing to believe is that we're never going to see uncut Pokemon in the U.S.

 

[Rex Kamex]

I'm not interested in an uncut DUB, but I do wish the Japanese version of Pokemon was released in the US. But...

-As for the uncut dub, uncut doesn't mean unedited. They can still use all the dub music they want to and make any paint and dialogue edits desired. They just have to show everything. And I have the feeling if they were to make an uncut Pokemon dub, they wouldn't use all the original music. And that's the biggest thing that would bother me with the idea of an uncut dub. (But maybe I'm wrong about them keeping all the original music. I'll never know...

-What Dogasu said about "uncut" is right. I only see two things coming out of putting "uncut" on Pokemon DVDs- so much controversy over what mysterious new material is in these DVDS, or... people watching the DVDs and, for the most part, not seeing anything new.

As for releasing the Japanese version of Pokemon, I'm all for releasing the Japanese version of Pokemon episodes on DVDs with the edited American dub episodes (except for eps banned in the US), but...

-Someone on Serebiiforums said that Japan should release the entire series (well, besides the Porygon and the Barboach/earthquake episode, of course) on DVD in its own country first before coming to other countries, and I agree.

-The target audience, for the most part, wouldn't care that the Japanese version is on the DVDs except for when they notice that the price of DVDs is bigger. (Although, if the DVDs have the English edited episodes and some kids look at the Japanese version and notice differences in music and opening/ending themes, interest might increase somewhat.)

-The older audience, which is outside of the target audience, is more likely to acknowledge that there's a Japanese version of Pokemon, but even among those people the Japanese version is less acknowledged than the American version. Even if some of them watch the Japanese version, many of them still use names like "Ash" and "Misty." Pokemon is one of the few anime series I can think of where the American version of this Japanese series is more of the "standard" than the Japanese version is.



I think when they released those Kanto boxsets like this one, they should've put the Japanese version of those episodes up there. (I would've been fine if when translating more controversial dialogue they found ways to be more "subtle" with what was being said.) Same with that Orange Islands boxset. (And to increase the picture quality they could release these things in more sets.) And that Pokemon: the First Three Movies DVD. But they didn't, sadly. Not a surprise, but still... =(

 

[ashita]

I dont think it is so much whether there is a market but whether that market is being enough for a decent cost to benefit ratio or whatever

 

[Adamant]

-As for the uncut dub, uncut doesn't mean unedited. They can still use all the dub music they want to and make any paint and dialogue edits desired. They just have to show everything.

You do know there's barely anything cut from the English dub, right?

 

[Rex Kamex]

I dont think it is so much whether there is a market but whether that market is being enough for a decent cost to benefit ratio or whatever

That's true. The market is there, but that's the best we can say about it.

You do know there's barely anything cut from the English dub, right?

Yes.....................................................

Hence what I said about people being upset when they realize not much new stuff was seen.

-What Dogasu said about "uncut" is right. I only see two things coming out of putting "uncut" on Pokemon DVDs- so much controversy over what mysterious new material is in these DVDS, or... people watching the DVDs and, for the most part, not seeing anything new.

 

[Yash]

I think the most you could hope for is a cut-up Japanese version (no preview, no Oak lectures, etc.) being slapped onto the current edited DVD release.

 

[Adamant]

That's true. The market is there, but that's the best we can say about it.



Yes.....................................................

Hence what I said about people being upset when they realize not much new stuff was seen.

Sorry, I need to read the posts I reply to better

 

[Archaic]

Seconding the above comments. While a Japanese subtitled version isn't an impossibility in the future I feel (even if they do likely decide to simply put "dub titles" on it), an "uncut dub" is amazingly unlikely.

 

[Darthbane2007]

It's not like there was a lot of Uncut footage anyway. The most difference between the Japanese and Dub is the Japanese letters being ommitted, and dialogue being changed..

 

[Cybersai]

They just need to release Pokemon subtitled on DVDs in Japan, so we can import them and play them on region-free DVD players.

How likely is it for Japanese DVDs to be subtitled in english?

 

[PokeSpirit]

Very unlikely. There is no market for english subtitled DVDs in Japan in regards to PM. If they aren't consistently releasing DVDs as it is, subtitles are not going to boot the sales any. So I won't say impossible, but pretty close to it because there is no market for it.

 

[Rex Kamex]

^ Perhaps one day they will release all the Porygon episodes except those two banned worldwide ones (Porygon and Barboach) on DVD. Hopefully they won't say "FOR SALE IN JAPAN ONLY" on the back.

(I don't know if the current Japanese Pokemon DVDs say that, but I know some Japanese Pokemon CDs do. Not the oldest CDs that I've seen. I'm grasping at straws here, but does that mean those CDs can't be sold in non-Japanese stores, or non-Japanese internet sites as well? I've been wondering this for a while...)

It's not like there was a lot of Uncut footage anyway. The most difference between the Japanese and Dub is the Japanese letters being ommitted, and dialogue being changed..

And songs and background music, depending on what episode/movie you're watching.

But once the majority of unknowing buyers figure out that there isn't much uncut footage, they'll be really upset. (Especially if they decide to leave out the banned episodes. The episodes themselves could be uncut but the arcs with banned episodes could be cut. I'm pretty sure that's what they'd do if they were to release the Japanese version here.)

 

[monkeyjb1988]

I don't need a new dub. I just want the Japanese version. If it's released in Japan, I and all the Japanese version fans won. As far as dubs go, Pokemon has been pretty good, unlike One Piece (apples to oranges, perhaps).

 

[Dogasu]

How likely is it for Japanese DVDs to be subtitled in english?

About as likely as having an American DVD subtitled in Japanese.

Hopefully they won't say "FOR SALE IN JAPAN ONLY" on the back.

(I don't know if the current Japanese Pokemon DVDs say that, but I know some Japanese Pokemon CDs do. Not the oldest CDs that I've seen. I'm grasping at straws here, but does that mean those CDs can't be sold in non-Japanese stores, or non-Japanese internet sites as well? I've been wondering this for a while...)

Retailers are *technically* not supposed to sell any of the products with that label outside of Japan, but they do anyway. It's one of those laws that nobody really pays attention to or enforces, and with bootlegging becoming a MUCH bigger concern for companies, that apathy is likely to continue.

 

[Nekusagi]

Retailers are *technically* not supposed to sell any of the products with that label outside of Japan, but they do anyway. It's one of those laws that nobody really pays attention to or enforces, and with bootlegging becoming a MUCH bigger concern for companies, that apathy is likely to continue.

I've always wondered why that label exists anyway. It's on a few of my Pokemon plushes, and I don't get why they care- money is money regardless of where it comes from.

Is it because of licensing?

 

[Cybersai]

About as likely as having an American DVD subtitled in Japanese.

Isn't english like a second language over there though? I thought english to the Japanese was like how Spanish was to Americans, where you're taught it in middle school even though you end up forgetting everything by the time you graduate.

 

[Dogasu]

I don't get why they care- money is money regardless of where it comes from.

Is it because of licensing?

It's probably because of the fear of reverse importing. A company like FUNimation, for example, wants you to buy their version of One Piece because they had to pay a huge amount of money to get the license for it in the first place. They don't want you importing the Region 2 DVDs.

Of course, the exorbitant price of Japanese DVDs pretty much prevents fans in the West from doing that anyway, so it's not all that effective.

(I didn't use a Pokemon example because I'm not sure if TPCI, being a branch of the Japanese company and all, had to pay anything for the license)

Isn't english like a second language over there though? I thought english to the Japanese was like how Spanish was to Americans, where you're taught it in middle school even though you end up forgetting everything by the time you graduate.

I wouldn't call Spanish a "second language" in the U.S.

And yeah, English is taught in middle school, but the education system here is so terrible that they manage to retain a whole lot less English than we Americans do with Spanish. The market for English subtitled anything is extremely low because most Japanese people wouldn't be able to read them, even at their peak.

 

[Adamant]

Isn't english like a second language over there though? I thought english to the Japanese was like how Spanish was to Americans, where you're taught it in middle school even though you end up forgetting everything by the time you graduate.

English is about as close to a second language you can get without being official here in Norway, and a huge portion of the population is fluent in the language, yet English subtitles on Norwegian-language DVDs is still pretty uncommon. Not completely unheard of, but like with Japanese DVDs, there just isn't enough of a market for the producers to bother with them. People generally don't watch movies in their own language with subtitles in a foreign language.

 

[Rex Kamex]

If they were to release DVDs with the Japanese version of Pokemon (I'm speaking hypothetically), would any of you greatly mind if in the subtitles they had things like "Ash", "Piplup", "Solaceon Town", "Ember", etc, and they still had the banned episodes banned and "redid" to an extent, dialogue that they feel would be too risque?

That's not truly... unedited, but if they did, I wouldn't mind that. (Call it being desparate, but... yeah.)

Rather than an uncut dub, I think that would be better, but even that is asking for much.

Sorry, I need to read the posts I reply to better

I don't know if I really need to say this for you to know that it's okay, but... it's okay...

Retailers are *technically* not supposed to sell any of the products with that label outside of Japan, but they do anyway. It's one of those laws that nobody really pays attention to or enforces, and with bootlegging becoming a MUCH bigger concern for companies, that apathy is likely to continue.

I know I've gone off topic talking about this, but... I assume that the people who put that label on Japanese Pokemon CDs are the same people who let sites like Amazon.com or PlayAsia.com sell them.

Or at least the people who put that label on them are aware that those sites are selling those CDs. (I assume it's okay to mention those sites here because many people have mentioned PlayAsia on this forum and... well, the other site's Amazon.com.) I'm biased, though, because that's where I got those CDs with that label. =P