Is this true?

[MyNameCornBread]

I've heard something to the effect of Gen I and Gen III happening concurrently timeline/story-wise, and Gen II and Gen IV having a similar relationship. So my question is, is this true? Like, does Emerald take place around the same time as FR/LG? If so, I find that interesting and surprising.

 

[Nekusagi]

Where did you hear this?

 

[The Outrage]

Its fan theory, there's no confirmation to it.

 

[MyNameCornBread]

I think I may have heard about it in the G/S remake debate thread.

 

[Mr Bobbleweed]

Quoting Bulbpedia: "As revealed by the later remakes, Generation I is contemporaneous with Generation III." and "The events of Generation II are contemporaneous with the events of Generation IV, as proven by the opening events of Pokémon Diamond and Pearl." It does seem right , with the FR/LG having compatibility with R/S/E, and in gen IV there's Jasmine from gen II. Also, the rumoured DS gen II remakes would almost certainly be compatible with D/P/P.

 

[Shinx3000]

"The events of Generation II are contemporaneous with the events of Generation IV, as proven by the opening events of Pokémon Diamond and Pearl.

If that was true, why was it removed in Platinum (The red garydos) or is Platinum a different time that D/P?

t does seem right , with the FR/LG having compatibility with R/S/E, and in gen IV there's Jasmine from gen II.

The reason they had compatibility was that the data for al the rest of the pokemon in the national dex was left in R/S and FR/LG was made so that all pokemon could be obtained in those games, and with the release of Emerald, all pokemon could now be obtained.

 

[Mr Bobbleweed]

The reason they had compatibility was that the data for al the rest of the pokemon in the national dex was left in R/S and FR/LG was made so that all pokemon could be obtained in those games, and with the release of Emerald, all pokemon could now be obtained.

Well when you trade between R/S/E and FR/LG, it makes no reference to time travelling, as if they are set in the same time, whereas trading between gen II and I which we know for a fact are three years apart is via a Time Machine.

 

[The Outrage]

Yeah, or you know, the fact that you can only trade to RSE after the main plot and sub plot are over means that Game Freak might have just assumed that its players had enough imagination to imagine time passing. But you know, that's a lot to expect from a fandom who thought that baby Pokemon were the same exact size that was listed in the Pokedex (Yeah, people wondering how something can give birth to a 1000 pound snorlax, as if any creature gives birth to full sized adults).

Anything that happens in those games past the main plot and sub plots are no longer within that designated timeline we seem to give those games.

As for DP timeline coinciding with GS timeline, apart from the many references which does not automatically mean it happened at the same time, there was the Red Gyarados documentary. That doesn't necessarily mean it happened at the same time, it could have happened sometime afterwards, but considering the rival's excitement, its probably a recent occurance which meant D/P began anytime between Mahogany town to the end of the Kanto part of GS.

 

[Amewsment]

Well G/S is definitely after FR/LG and there can be no doubt about that due to the inclusion of the capsule that allows trades with the past. Additionally the changes that can were done to Kanto are definite indicators of time having passed:

• * Viridian Forest is cut down, creating a clear path for trainers.
  
  * Eruption of volcano on Cinnabar Island causes destruction of areas on the island.
  
  * Koga abdicates his position as Fuchsia Gym Leader to his daughter, Janine, for a position among Kanto's Elite Four.
  
  * Eventually, Red ends up at Mt. Silver, training day and night, and Lance ends up as the champion. Blue, dejected, takes the empty gym in Viridian City.
  
  * Lorelei returns to her home in Four Island.
  
  * Agatha retires from her position as a member of the Kanto Elite Four.
  
  * Extensive research confirms the existence of Steel and Dark-types in the region of Kanto.
  
  * Pewter Museum of Science is closed for renovations.
  
  * Safari Zone Warden leaves on a trip, closing down the Kanto Safari Zone.
  
  * Miracle Cycle moves from Cerulean City to Goldenrod City.

The ability to trade directly between R/S/E and FR/LG equally suggests that they occur around the time because we would otherwise have seen the return of the time capsule. It doesn't mean they happen at exactly the same time.

During D/P the Lake Rage of incident is broadcast on television, which suggests that the events are occurring round about the same time. There is more evidence for all this but I am too lazy to look it up!

 

[The Outrage]

Well G/S is definitely after FR/LG and there can be no doubt about that due to the inclusion of the capsule that allows trades with the past. Additionally the changes that can were done to Kanto are definite indicators of time having passed:

That and the ingame dialogue.

 

[Amewsment]

That and the ingame dialogue.

Outrage is as usual absolutely correct, but I didn't have any example on hand when I typed up my reply. That is why I didn't directly mention the dialogue. But yes dialogue, as Outrage pointed out, is also a major factor that indicated the chronology.

 

[Shinx3000]

Was this not said before on another thread and it explained things well? This one: http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=34267

 

[MyNameCornBread]

Thanks for the info guys.

 

[TTEchidna]

If that was true, why was it removed in Platinum (The red garydos) or is Platinum a different time that D/P?

It was removed in favor of it appearing elsewhere. The opening was different, but the red Gyarados reference occurs the first time you reach Valor Lakefront, with an outright, named reference to the Lake of Rage. Which means GSDS YO.

 

[Shinx3000]

^Actually that does not mean a remake, only means they changed it slightly in game to have the lake or rage referenced instead of having a red graydos at the start. It only proves that the Gen II and Gen IV timelimes are the same

 

[Silktree]

First of all, it isn't merely the GBA versions' compatibility that can be used to establish that the Kanto and Hoenn journeys were contemporary. In Ruby and Sapphire, a letter from Bill to Lanette could be read as saying:

Your Storage System offers more convenience than mine. It has a lot of user-friendly features that make it fun and useful, too. It makes me proud that I played a part in its development. Here's hoping that you'll continue research in Storage Systems.

This created the impression that Lanette developed her system after the Generation I and Generation II events with Bill had taken place. But Game Freak retconned the letter in Emerald so that it said:

Your Storage System is quite handy and has a lot of thought put into its user friendliness. It makes using it a pleasure, and that makes me happy as the co-developer of the System! Take care, and good luck on your ongoing Storage System research!

I should note that you won't find the above text in the English version - the nuances were lost on the translators, so they kept the message from Ruby and Sapphire (just a few months previously, the same localization team hadn't caught that Koga's daughter was actually Jasmine, thus giving her a new name).

Clearly, Bill and Lanette developed the system together, with Lanette focusing on the interface and Bill on the hardware. Game Freak retconned the original letter after FireRed and LeafGreen had incorporated the same exact system from Ruby and Sapphire, in addition to making it abundantly clear that the Network Machine was connected to Lanette's PC - very much in the sense of real time.

Yeah, or you know, the fact that you can only trade to RSE after the main plot and sub plot are over means that Game Freak might have just assumed that its players had enough imagination to imagine time passing. But you know, that's a lot to expect from a fandom who thought that baby Pokemon were the same exact size that was listed in the Pokedex (Yeah, people wondering how something can give birth to a 1000 pound snorlax, as if any creature gives birth to full sized adults).

God forbid should you actually do your research before you go off on a rant. How precisely is anyone supposed to infer that PC linkage with other regions is responsible for the passage of time? I assume that you were referring to time travel being involved in the vein of the Time Capsule, but the comparison doesn't have much in the way of merit: In the Generation II games, Bill explained the rules of time travel to Gold/Kris and directly referred to the capsule as communicating with the past. After doing so, Bill returned to Goldenrod City and never mentioned the capsule again, nor did any other character. It was clearly a gameplay-oriented feature that didn't affect the story (it could have if Game Freak had gone into the consequences of time travel, but they didn't).

Getting the Network Machine to operate in full mode is an entire quest in FireRed and LeafGreen, so it is very much pertinent to understanding the story. There is no way to mistake the many references to the ability to link up with trainers from Hoenn. Not only is your awkward assumption about time travel completely unsupported in fact, it is contradicted by one simple reference:

I traded Pokémon with my boyfriend far away! Everyone's saying that we can thank you and Celio. So, thank you!

This is said by a woman standing right next to the Network Machine. Are we supposed to imagine a situation in which she is having a relationship with someone several years into the future? Seriously?

It was removed in favor of it appearing elsewhere. The opening was different, but the red Gyarados reference occurs the first time you reach Valor Lakefront, with an outright, named reference to the Lake of Rage. Which means GSDS YO.

Interesting. Back in September Coronis told me that the cameraman in Survival Area still referenced the TV broadcast about Red Gyarados, but that left me wondering where in the game the broadcast was mentioned for the first time. Seeing as how I don't have Platinum yet, could you write down the text for me? I would like to see if it can be inferred that the report was broadcast just immediately prior to Dawn/Lucas' arrival in Valor Lakefront. If so, not only are Generation II and Generation IV concurrent as already confirmed in Diamond and Pearl, but there would also seem to be a great measure of overlapping between the Johto and Sinnoh adventures.

It is also worthy of note that the man who gave out a Happiny egg in Diamond and Pearl, referred to Professor Elm's announcement that eggs kept with a trainer eventually hatch. In the Generation II games, Professor Elm came to realize this fact with Gold/Kris' help at some point between the Violet City and Azalea Town events. While this man no longer gives out an egg in Platinum (it has been replaced by Cynthia's Togepi egg), Coronis told me that his dialogue is mostly the same. Could anyone check if the text implies that the announcement was made recently? Diamond and Pearl, or at least the English versions thereof, made it impossible to tell how long ago it was.

 

[The Outrage]

I
God forbid should you actually do your research before you go off on a rant. How precisely is anyone supposed to infer that PC linkage with other regions is responsible for the passage of time? I assume that you were referring to time travel being involved in the vein of the Time Capsule, but the comparison doesn't have much in the way of merit: In the Generation II games, Bill explained the rules of time travel to Gold/Kris and directly referred to the capsule as communicating with the past. After doing so, Bill returned to Goldenrod City and never mentioned the capsule again, nor did any other character. It was clearly a gameplay-oriented feature that didn't affect the story (it could have if Game Freak had gone into the consequences of time travel, but they didn't).

Getting the Network Machine to operate in full mode is an entire quest in FireRed and LeafGreen, so it is very much pertinent to understanding the story. There is no way to mistake the many references to the ability to link up with trainers from Hoenn. Not only is your awkward assumption about time travel completely unsupported in fact, it is contradicted by one simple reference

Now where on earth did I ever mention that the trading between RSE and FRLG was a time-capsule like event like GSC and RBY? You are only able to trade to RSE after the Sevii Island event, and anything that you do past the main story line really wouldn't fall into the one-year-or-so time span of Kanto's events. Now I don't recall when exactly when you are able to trade in RSE, but the fact that you cannot trade to it in FRLG until the main events are over means that it is not definate proof that RSE takes place in the same timeline. It could take place at any time after the events of Sevii island, a physical trade was never made as a possiblity within the main/sub stories. It all happened afterward.

I mean when you transfer Pokemon over from Pal Park, what are we supposed to think? That the trainer left it there for 3+ years waiting to be caught by another person? And what about Colosseum and XD? They are five years apart, yet the main series games can communicate with them just as easily. The point I was making was that having the ability to physically trade between the games does not prove anything about the timeline--especially when none of these trades could take place within the main/sub storylines of the games. The game had to literally be over, meaing the one-year timespan we seem to give each adventure is over, unlike Gold/Silver where the trades actually happen within the story's timeline--though it is made clear that it was being sent to the past.

I traded Pokémon with my boyfriend far away! Everyone's saying that we can thank you and Celio. So thank you!

This is said by a woman standing right next to the Network Machine. Are we supposed to imagine a situation in which she is having a relationship with someone several years into the future? Seriously?

Well, under your assumption of what you thought I was trying to say, yes. Otherwise, no not really. Just because that woman was able to trade with with her boyfriend all the way in Hoenn, it doesn't mean that this was when the events of Hoenn took place. It does not prove timeline.

I mean why would you quote and rant about that but completely ignore the one lone sentence afterwards that explains my rationale?

Anything that happens in those games past the main plot and sub plots are no longer within that designated timeline we seem to give those games.

Hence why its not time travel, yet at the same time is not actually proof that the events took place at the same time.

Not that I expect anyone to remember, but everytime a timeline thread is posted, I always side with the RBY/RSE--->GSC/DPPt timeline, though usually with RSE starting during or shortly after the Sevii Island plot and DPPt starting some time after the Mahogany plot.

You're telling me to go do research before going on a little rant, so I leave you with this: read the rest of the post before you go on a little rant and maybe actually try to understand what is being said. Awkward, perhaps, but simply asking for clarification rather than going off on a tangent about what you think I said would have saved us all valuable time we can never get back.

 

[Silktree]

I mean why would you quote and rant about that but completely ignore the one lone sentence afterwards that explains my rationale?

That sentence didn't explain your rationale very well. In fact, it is as vague as vague can be. I suppose that I had misplaced you with other fans who had compared the Network Machine to the Time Capsule, and for that I apologize. Yet, if to be perfectly frank, I still don't understand why you felt the need to make a big deal about what could at most be a one-year difference; it is the relationships between the different generations that actually make for a worthwhile discussion. Besides, I stand by my assertion that the assumption that Red/Leaf hadn't communicated with Brendan/May until a significant period of time had elapsed, is awkward and unsupported in fact.

I could go on and explain why that is, but it suffices to point out that Emerald's trading restrictions make it impossible for the Network Machine to have been operating at the beginning of the game. This is because an Emerald player cannot trade with a FireRed/LeafGreen player until after having defeated the Elite Four - even if the the Ruby and Sapphire quest has been completed on the FireRed/LeafGreen end. This firmly suggests that Celio could not have established communication with Lanette before Brendan/May became the Hoenn Champion.

You should have done your research and put across your argument more clearly.

 

[MyNameCornBread]

So does anyone have those quotes Unown Lord asked about? I'm interested in seeing them too.