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Review JN129: The Finals I: "Torrent"

Some opinions I don't like that's going around are ones that belittles Ash's chances regardless. That being saying Ash using 3 gimmicks to Leon's one is unfair, or saying Ash was written permission to use all 3, cause he had no chance otherwise. I don't like either of these opinions, acting like these mechanics are the only reason he'd win.
 
Knightwolf09 said:
Some opinions I don't like that's going around are ones that belittles Ash's chances regardless. That being saying Ash using 3 gimmicks to Leon's one is unfair, or saying Ash was written permission to use all 3, cause he had no chance otherwise. I don't like either of these opinions, acting like these mechanics are the only reason he'd win.
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It won't be the only reason, but it's definitely a noticeable factor. In this episode alone, you can see Gengar struggling against Inteleon before it G-Maxes, and even after that, Inteleon was strong enough to force Gengar's G-Max to end early (something that we have never seen before). And on top of all that, there's the implication that Leon might've switched Inteleon out to conserve momentum, had G-Max Gengar not trap it in with G-Max Terror.

Both trainers are now at 5-5, but:
  • Ash has already used up one of his three gimmicks.
  • Pikachu has already taken a super-effective hit from Cinderace's Scorching Sand.
  • Mr. Rime is already on the field, and was able to set up Psychic Terrain at the cost of being temporarily locked out of Freeze-Dry.
Putting aside whether or not it'd be considered fair, I think it's pretty clear by now that Ash will need to pull out all the stops if he wants to stand a chance at winning this battle, and that includes taking full advantage of all his gimmicks. Don't blame us for questioning the fairness of this battle, blame the writers for putting Leon on a pedestal this ludicrously high.
 
:bulbaLove: The Best
  • AniPoke Giving It All - as many of you have mentioned, very nice episode overall. Animation looking the best it had in Journeys and both trainers exercising moves, abilities and strategy. The battle itself has almost impossible mountain to climb - because the natural expectation would be for it to be the best in AniPoke history. They themselves painted that picture. I do not have expectation that high, but for it to land safely beside Paul, Gary, Kukui, Sawyer and Cynthia would be decent enough. It still almost all comes to how it will end and how it will be sold visually. But they definitely started on high note, especially given all constraints and problems they been having recently. Kudos.

:bulbaWave: Good
  • Dawn and Chloe - they came in person, they cheer, what more is there to say?:giggle:
  • Other Cameos - especially nice to see Lance still caring, Cynthia and Diantha staying at Stadium and Allister cheering Gengar. That said, it comes with great exclamation mark that Alola, Misty, Brock and Serena are expected! Unfortunately, May with Max, Clemont with Bonnie and Cilan almost certainly only watching, but the rest is due to appear more prominently, so better make it work Journeys.
  • Team Rocket - I do mention them almost everytime here, but they are cheering their hearts out.
  • Will-O-Wisp - seeing what it did to Aqua Jet, I stay with what I previously (jokingly) said - Infernape and Charizard taught Gengar that move, so it probably hits initially like Blast Burn and then it is Flare Blitz each round :cool:
:confused: Bad
  • Ash Starting Slow…Again - honestly, I was hoping for him to start strong. And looking at it, he quite did not, not enough. He lets Pikachu eat super-effective attack from get-go. Then Leon utilizes his switch to put Inteleon out there with Pikachu out of picture. Needs to use first gimmick to score KO. Even with Mr. Rime and Gengar out there I was almost shouting ”Will-O-Wisp!!” It still seems that Ash is more caught off guard than not and especially against Leon it would serve better to start strong - meaning something like Orange Islands against Drake. It is not helped by next episode preview, where Dragapult faces 3(!) of Ash’s Pokemon including Mega Lucario.
  • Sky Box (nitpicky) - the one where Cynthia and Diantha are watching, well who designed that thing? It seem they are too far away from window to have any good angle or view on actual pitch and are watching everything on small tablet before them? Seems like carelessness.
  • Ash Outside Stadium (nitpicky) - similar, Ash is outside stadium full of people. One must pay high respects to Japanese culture as I do not get why is not hammered by fans. Especially after we see him being cheered on entering the pitch, which was nice.
:bulbaFacepalm: Ugly
  • Ash Using All Gimmicks…Presumably Only Ash - many of you are mentioning this, so I will not write much. It was expected, but I semi-expected it will work both sides. Notably when seeing G-Max Cinderace and Inteleon is long overdue. But we have learned our lesson with Journeys better taking what is said at face-value. When they say only Ash will have them, then probably it will be so. Which, I get it, spices-up the battle and make Ash’s chances of winning more believable. But on the other hand, makes controversy right from the start. And also makes Leon…I am not sure if not less likeable being this cocky and daring. There is still some chance of Leon using Mega and Z-Move which would be nice touch and balancing the scales, but I am not counting on it.
 
Leon said that removing the restriction would allow both sides to go all out in this battle, likely meaning Leon would also be able to use all three gimmicks, but he just doesn't normally use Mega Evolution or Z-Moves anyway because of his own choice (or because he hasn't decided to go through the trouble to gain access to them), so it doesn't change anything for him. The rule change affects only Ash because of his battling style, not because the modification is a handicap for Ash. Imagine if you had a battle with a rule of "only fire-type Pokemon", where one of the battlers specializes in fire types and only uses them, while the other battler normally uses a variety of types. Sure, removing the rule is a big advantage to battler 2 and doesn't help 1 at all, but it's returning the two of them to even grounds instead of giving battler 2 an unfair advantage.

Basically, it's removing a rule that wasn't hindering Leon anyway, because of his team setup and strategy choices. With the rule in place, had Ash lost, people would have always argued over whether Ash would have won if he had been able to use his full strength, which I think is a scenario better off being avoided.
 
Fwahm said:
Leon said that removing the restriction would allow both sides to go all out in this battle, likely meaning Leon would also be able to use all three gimmicks, but he just doesn't normally use Mega Evolution or Z-Moves anyway because of his own choice (or because he hasn't decided to go through the trouble to gain access to them), so it doesn't change anything for him. The rule change affects only Ash because of his battling style, not because the modification is a handicap for Ash. Imagine if you had a battle with a rule of "only fire-type Pokemon", where one of the battlers specializes in fire types and only uses them, while the other battler normally uses a variety of types. Sure, removing the rule is a big advantage to battler 2 and doesn't help 1 at all, but it's returning the two of them to even grounds instead of giving battler 2 an unfair advantage.

Basically, it's removing a rule that wasn't hindering Leon anyway, because of his team setup and strategy choices. With the rule in place, had Ash lost, people would have always argued over whether Ash would have won if he had been able to use his full strength, which I think is a scenario better off being avoided.
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Or maybe Leon can go all out with just Gigantamaxing.
 
Fwahm said:
Leon said that removing the restriction would allow both sides to go all out in this battle, likely meaning Leon would also be able to use all three gimmicks, but he just doesn't normally use Mega Evolution or Z-Moves anyway because of his own choice (or because he hasn't decided to go through the trouble to gain access to them), so it doesn't change anything for him. The rule change affects only Ash because of his battling style, not because the modification is a handicap for Ash. Imagine if you had a battle with a rule of "only fire-type Pokemon", where one of the battlers specializes in fire types and only uses them, while the other battler normally uses a variety of types. Sure, removing the rule is a big advantage to battler 2 and doesn't help 1 at all, but it's returning the two of them to even grounds instead of giving battler 2 an unfair advantage.

Basically, it's removing a rule that wasn't hindering Leon anyway, because of his team setup and strategy choices. With the rule in place, had Ash lost, people would have always argued over whether Ash would have won if he had been able to use his full strength, which I think is a scenario better off being avoided.
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I think he meant he himself would have to pull out every trick and abilities he could think of to contest with Ash. He didn't mean using all 3 gimmicks himself.
 
FinnishPokéFan92 said:
Or maybe Leon can go all out with just Gigantamaxing.
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That's what I am saying. Leon going all out only requires 1 gimmick to be allowed because by choice only one of them is part of his strategy, so he can go all out even with a restriction like that. As a result, the rule for "1 gimmick only" only keeps Ash from going all out, so removing it merely puts the two of them on an even standing, rather than giving Ash a special advantage.
 
I should also mention why G-Max Gengar wasn't actually that bad and should more show Gengar won by his own strength. And that's cause of Max Ooze. Max Ooze is one of the weaker Max Moves in the roster due to having low BP. But it's base BP is equal to that of Sludge bomb. So if anything, the biggest benefit to Gengar Gigantamxing was cause his moves can't miss
 
Knightwolf09 said:
That being saying Ash using 3 gimmicks to Leon's one is unfair
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I mean, I don’t have a problem at all with this arrangement; makes sense in-universe, but one side being allowed to use one power-up while the other can use three is literally the definition of unfair; no matter how strong or weak Leon’s Pokémon are: Ash gets 3 chances to boost his Pokemon, Leon gets 1.

Again; I don’t have an issue with this but you really cannot blame people for calling it unfair.
 
If there hadn't originally been a rule about using only one I'd just say "I guess Leon should have sought out a Mega Stone and holder like Ash did". However introducing that rule then waiving it at the end does feel a bit like weighting it in Ash's favor unless Leon gets three Dynamax uses too.
Although technically you could argue from a narrative reason the rule existed just to nerf Ash since none of the others seem to have Z-Moves and many of them only seemed to have one of them.
 
This episode was way better than I expected, I'd say the finals are off to a pretty good start. I was honestly a bit hesitant about how Leon's battle style would be portrayed, because all his other matches felt very brute force-y, and coming after the Cynthia match where she kept Ash off balance for the entire fight with so many different strategies I was worried this one would pale in comparison, but definitely liking the strategies seen so far!

Though I gotta admit, Ash getting the first KO immediately made me apprehensive. Gave me Kalos league finals flashbacks lmao. All his other matches in this tournament he trailed the opponent to the very end, but with this one starting in his favor I hope that's not some twisted sign.
 
It was a really good start, with a proper build-up. The animation was perfect, these zoom-in and zoom-out shots with proper perspective (background moving as a separate layer from the foreground) really make the difference.

I like the way Ash informed Leon he couldn't recall Inteleon, he IS usually confident but we rarely see him expressing himself in this sort of menacing way.

I also like how past cameos are sprinkled throughout the thing rather than showing up all together as a montage. Neither the cameos or the explanatory bits affected the battle's pacing, they took as much time as needed and no more. Let's hope this keeps up.

flowerfun said:
There's also the fact that despite the episode(s) being advertised that all of Ash's past companions will come to the stadium to watch...we only see Dawn and Chloe.
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I don't recall that ever happening. Got any source on it?
 
Knightwolf09 said:
The "Boost" only applies to one pokemon, being Lucario. The other 2 are just powered up moves, not really making the pokemon itself stronger.
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You are both wrong, and this is just semantics. "The Pokémon itself is not stronger, it’s just the way it hits gets stronger". Also you are false on Dynamax's count. Ash has used G-Max Gengar's size and physiology to his advantage when it would be impossible with regular Gengar.

No matter what way you spin it, people calling Trainer 1 getting three boosts while Trainer 2 gets one is unfair are not in the wrong. If it happened in the games people would riot. Irrespective of character motivations, if it makes sense in unviverse or some other factor, the concept is inherently unequal. Leon should probably have gotten three G-Max opportunities to compensate. Leon going with one G-Max only is not him going "all out" as we know for a fact that Rillaboom is trained to fight better when in G-Max form too.
 
Many people out there saying that this is a confirmed four parter, but there has been no official news as such?
 
PkmnTrainerV said:
You are both wrong, and this is just semantics. "The Pokémon itself is not stronger, it’s just the way it hits gets stronger". Also you are false on Dynamax's count. Ash has used G-Max Gengar's size and physiology to his advantage when it would be impossible with regular Gengar.

No matter what way you spin it, people calling Trainer 1 getting three boosts while Trainer 2 gets one is unfair are not in the wrong. If it happened in the games people would riot. Irrespective of character motivations, if it makes sense in unviverse or some other factor, the concept is inherently unequal. Leon should probably have gotten three G-Max opportunities to compensate. Leon going with one G-Max only is not him going "all out" as we know for a fact that Rillaboom is trained to fight better when in G-Max form too.
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It's unequal because Ash's adventures and training have equipped him for more gimmicks than Leon is using, not because the new rule favors him. Ash should benefit from being more versatile and having more options available to him; that's not unfairness, that's him benefitting from options that he earned himself.

Leon could have brought Pokemon that could Mega Evolution and Z-Move if he had access and chose to do so, benefitting from the rule change as well, but he didn't, so he should be at a disadvantage on this front. If the change had been a surprise to Leon, that would have been one thing (since he wouldn't have expected to have a stronger reason to build his team around having more than one gimmick), but he himself suggested the rule change

Given that the concept of the tournament is to find the strongest trainer in the world, full stop, Ash (or anyone else in the tournament) should not have been punished for being more versatile than his opponents by being brought down to their level of versatility by an outside rule.
 
PkmnTrainerV said:
You are both wrong, and this is just semantics. "The Pokémon itself is not stronger, it’s just the way it hits gets stronger". Also you are false on Dynamax's count. Ash has used G-Max Gengar's size and physiology to his advantage when it would be impossible with regular Gengar.

No matter what way you spin it, people calling Trainer 1 getting three boosts while Trainer 2 gets one is unfair are not in the wrong. If it happened in the games people would riot. Irrespective of character motivations, if it makes sense in unviverse or some other factor, the concept is inherently unequal. Leon should probably have gotten three G-Max opportunities to compensate. Leon going with one G-Max only is not him going "all out" as we know for a fact that Rillaboom is trained to fight better when in G-Max form too.
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Then why would Leon himself say he was going to go all out if he isn't? Besides, we know Dynamax isn't the type of gimmick you can activate multiple times. None of the gimmicks can. So Leon Dynamaxing 3 times was never gonna happen.
 
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