Lack of fossil pokemon in gen II

[turtlekid]

I feel like this could be a thread in its self becuase if posted in the general questions I feel like it would be lost by the next page. So far every generation has introduced fossil pokemon, except generation II and even then you could only get aerodactyl by a trade and would have to trade over the other two. ( I know in the reamakes depending on which one you have you can get them.) Why do you think that no new fossil pokemon were introduced in generation II but were in every other generation.

 

[chimera]

This pretty much explains it.

This lack is mostly due to the fact that Generation II is very dependent on Generation I, and as the latter half of the game's storyline takes place in Kanto, there was no need to repeat many things.

From this article.

 

[Silktree]

This pretty much explains it.

Not really. The Kanto fossils weren't directly obtainable in the games, so it wouldn't have been repetitive to have other fossils in their place. Hoothoot, Sentret, Ledyba and Spinarak were even available in the same routes as their Generation I counterparts.

I think these pictures from the official website give the real answer. The ancient Pokémon of Generation II are the Unown; they may be profoundly different from the fossil Pokémon, but I can see why Game Freak might have felt that new fossils would be unnecessary.

It is possible that fossils were designed for the beta versions of Gold and Silver, but they didn't make it to the final versions. In fact, it seems entirely plausible that beta Tyranitar and its turtoise friend were meant to be fossil Pokémon, with Tyranitar becoming a Dark-type pseudo-legendary and the turtoise's design inspiring Carracosta much later. Of course, if Tyranitar was originally designed to be one of the fossils, then there had to have been another pseudo-legendary. There is no evidence for this, but I'd like to think that Game Freak had a good reason to make Lance the Champion. That reason doesn't really present itself in the actual games, but what if Lance wasn't supposed to have three Dragonite, but instead a Kingdra, Dragonite and another Dragon-type pseudo-legendary (which would have looked like this)?

 

[turtlekid]

woah that beta pic is cool, but who is that pokemon under tyranitar supposed to be? super beta hitmontop or a pokemon that didn't make it?

 

[Silktree]

woah that beta pic is cool, but who is that pokemon under tyranitar supposed to be? super beta hitmontop or a pokemon that didn't make it?

We don't know for sure either way. But it looks far smaller than Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee, so if anything, it might be a Tyrogue prototype whose design was eventually used for the alternate evolution instead (Hitmontop). Game Freak might have liked the capoeira concept so much that they didn't want it to be wasted on a pre-evolution.

 

[GuyWood]

I don't think there was any real good reason, I just think that the traditions of Pokemon weren't really developed by the second season, but by the third season.

 

[Almonds]

I think these pictures from the official website give the real answer. The ancient Pokémon of Generation II are the Unown; they may be profoundly different from the fossil Pokémon, but I can see why Game Freak might have felt that new fossils would be unnecessary.

Unown could be living fossils XD I second your quote!

 

[turtlekid]

Oh ya with the whole ruins of alph and what not, too bad that part was so minor if only they could of made it bigger p[art of story, plot even after e4

 

[Oswin]

Huh, I never thought of Tryanitar being a fossil Poké, would have been cool. And yes, I think that picture is a beta Hitmontop.

(Off topic)Maybe I'm just being OCD, but why can't Lugia be where Suicine is? Or is this a picture promoting Crystal?

 

[Silktree]

(Off topic)Maybe I'm just being OCD, but why can't Lugia be where Suicine is? Or is this a picture promoting Crystal?

That picture is taken from Gold and Silver's page on the official Japanese website, but interestingly, the artwork used for Ho-Oh and the beasts was actually introduced in promotion of Crystal, and Unown's was introduced in FRLG. This means that the page must have been revamped at some point long after Crystal's release; an archived version (dating from November 2002) shows that the order of the paragraphs was reversed, but unfortunately the archived images are unviewable.

It's possible that Suicune, Unown and Ho-Oh were moved to the bottom because those three received the most focus in Crystal (although I wouldn't compare Entei and Raikou to Lugia, which was only alluded to rather than being referenced by name).

Oh ya with the whole ruins of alph and what not, too bad that part was so minor if only they could of made it bigger p[art of story, plot even after e4

As a sidequest, it certainly trumps the unlocking of the Regis in Hoenn and the touring of the Abyssal Ruins in Unova. But that's not enough - the Ruins of Alph were practically tailored for Johto's main plot, and yet their potential was wasted on an optional sidequest that culminated in printing Unown letters of all things. Oddly enough, there is actually a portion of unused dialogue associated with the Ruins of Alph, and only part of it was ultimately incorporated into HGSS.

Even though I was pleasantly surprised to revisit Kanto in Gold and Silver, after Crystal was released I found myself wishing to explore ancient Johto in addition to or even instead of modern Kanto. By that I mean that time travel should have been a prevalent plot element, with every important event in Johto's history being experienced first-hand. This is what I had been hoping to see in HGSS ever since the possibility of Gold and Silver being remade and having their story expanded occurred to me in 2004 (considering that the Sevii Islands continued the Kanto story). But alas, Game Freak found it more perinent to add the Pokéathlon and Pokéwalker as a means to innovate the remakes, and the only changes to the story were done via short-lived promotional events. What an incredible shame.

But at least the extended Ruins of Alph sidequest ends on a much higher note in HGSS than it did in Generation II, thanks to the Sinjoh Ruins event: "Unown, the Ruins of Alph, and Arceus... The mystery deepens. It has made me even more inquisitive! I will one day solve all the mysteries!" Where were Game Freak going with this? When will we finally be given answers, and which kind of game will be involved?

 

[turtlekid]

the Abyssal ruin is just a way to make money which i find kind of annoying. I also don't like how yay you caught all the unowns but don't get anything, I certainly feel that besides the report something else should of happened. Such as besides an item unlocking something else or a coniuation to a new event.

 

[Joshawott]

Guys, can we please focus our attention back onto why Generation II had no fossil Pokémon, rather than going on about the Abyssal Ruins and other things?

Thanks.

 

[Bikini Miltank]

I always got the impression that the Gen II games weren't "sequels" in the way that subsequent games were. Gold and Silver almost felt like an expansion pack to the originals. While they introduced many new features and improved greatly on the originals, in terms of the Pokémon themselves, there wasn't much of a break with what came before. Hoenn, Sinnoh and Unova were conceived as separate ecosystems, even though the first two reused some old Pokémon. Johto really isn't that distinct from Kanto ecologically - they share a large proportion of their native Pokémon. I think this is one reason for there being no Johto fossils. The new Johto Pokémon were really just the Kanto dex, part two.

Another factor might be that Gold and Silver were originally conceived of as the last Pokémon games. There may have been a feeling that they'd done the fossil thing in Gen I, and there was no need to repeat it. It wasn't until Gen III was begun that it became the expected norm for fossils to appear in each generation.

 

[League]

I don't think there was any real good reason, I just think that the traditions of Pokemon weren't really developed by the second season, but by the third season.

Agree.

I always got the impression that the Gen II games weren't "sequels" in the way that subsequent games were. Gold and Silver almost felt like an expansion pack to the originals. While they introduced many new features and improved greatly on the originals, in terms of the Pokémon themselves, there wasn't much of a break with what came before. Hoenn, Sinnoh and Unova were conceived as separate ecosystems, even though the first two reused some old Pokémon. Johto really isn't that distinct from Kanto ecologically - they share a large proportion of their native Pokémon. I think this is one reason for there being no Johto fossils. The new Johto Pokémon were really just the Kanto dex, part two.

Another factor might be that Gold and Silver were originally conceived of as the last Pokémon games. There may have been a feeling that they'd done the fossil thing in Gen I, and there was no need to repeat it. It wasn't until Gen III was begun that it became the expected norm for fossils to appear in each generation.

I feel that Gold and Silver were the only true sequels, for the reasons you state. (I don't disagree with anything in your post substantively.)

 

[turtlekid]

This would be odd but what is it was just to keep the number of new pokemon introduced at 100? Like they wanted a nice even number so some guys got the cut because 100 sounded like a good number to introduce even though its the smallest amount of new pokemon introduced in a generation

 

[Blue1225]

I always got the impression that the Gen II games weren't "sequels" in the way that subsequent games were. Gold and Silver almost felt like an expansion pack to the originals. While they introduced many new features and improved greatly on the originals, in terms of the Pokémon themselves, there wasn't much of a break with what came before. Hoenn, Sinnoh and Unova were conceived as separate ecosystems, even though the first two reused some old Pokémon. Johto really isn't that distinct from Kanto ecologically - they share a large proportion of their native Pokémon. I think this is one reason for there being no Johto fossils. The new Johto Pokémon were really just the Kanto dex, part two.

Another factor might be that Gold and Silver were originally conceived of as the last Pokémon games. There may have been a feeling that they'd done the fossil thing in Gen I, and there was no need to repeat it. It wasn't until Gen III was begun that it became the expected norm for fossils to appear in each generation.

LOL for those exact reasons I view them as the only true sequels.

I agree, the Unknown could basically bee seen as living fossils of the Johto region. Shame more wasn't done with them.

 

[Roulette]

Yeah, I'd go as far as saying Unknown are fossils. Hieroglyphics are just ancient text, so meh, close enough? I think the lack of fossils in Johto can be explained by saying that Johto is just an extension of Kanto. They're both the same landmass, and it could be viewed as a super-region. Gen 2 featured a lot of Kanto Pokemon throughout it, with Gym Leaders mostly owning Kanto mons. I don't think it's that odd that there weren't new fossils there, seeing as how similar fossils are found around the same areas in real life.