League Rivals: The good and bad

matt0044

matt0044

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I'd be lying if I said I completely hated them. They do have some of the coolest battles on the show and Ash doesn't go down without a fight against then. Even Tobias (who had an admittedly cool design) managed to make his battle against Ash fairly memorable and intense.

On the other hand, they are quite frankly nothing but plot devices to ensure Ash doesn't win the league (because why would we want to see him progress on his journey at all) and are discarded afterwards, never to be seen again. Okay, Ritchie reappears in Johto but other league rivals are very one-note.

Tobias being the biggest offender as the other we got to know personally at least. He comes it with a LEGENDARY (a Pokemon who's very existence is questioned) and we never learn anything about him. He's mysterious, yes, but the thing about mysteries is they're very good when they've been solved. I think that's the worse part about him: He could've been very interesting.

What are your thoughts on all this?
 
Irl you probably wouldn't meet the person you lose to in a tourney until the tourney.

I do think it's cheap though, especially in the Tobias route, instead of Legendaries, give him pseudos or have like a Gengar spam the sleep move + dream eater.
 
The good: N/A

The bad: They are plot points used to cockblock Ash's League win and cause his dream to keep on being dragged out longer then it needs to be.
 
Muur said:
Irl you probably wouldn't meet the person you lose to in a tourney until the tourney.
Click to expand...

True. Though this is more from a storytelling perspective where this sort of move is pretty lazy as you pointed out.
 
I actually thought that Tobias was a good idea. Ash has now became so strong that legendaries are needed to beat him! And then BW came and ruined that thought...
 
League rivals are really at a disadvantage as characters. For the sake of continuing Ash's quest on the series, as well as to help push the "there's always someone better" theme that runs throughout this show, they're a necessary evil. Someone has to make sure Ash doesn't win the League, after all. But when you add in the fact that no League gets more than 8 episodes in which the show must fit in the startup episode, the preliminaries, the 2(3)-part battle with Ash's major rival of the saga, and then the inevitable battle where Ash is defeated, their characters get lost within it all and thus they end up coming across as little more than obstacles designed for Ash to fail against instead of actual characters. Of all my problems with Cameron (and there are several), I do at least like the way BW had the good sense to introduce him a few episodes before the Unova League and give him an episode to establish himself. Cameron was a bad character and his battle with Ash was laughable at best, but the one thing in his favor is that he doesn't seem to scream "I'M AN OBVIOUS PLOT DEVICE!" quite as loudly as Ritchie, Harrison, Tyson, or Tobias do. At least, not to me anyway.

The one thing a League rival can do is, as was already mentioned in this thread, to make their battle against Ash a memorable one. To that end, I think Tobias was done the best out of all of these. While he's even more obvious what he's there to do (prevent Ash from winning) than anyone else is, and you never really doubt he'll be winning the whole thing, his battle and his legendary Pokemon at least had the decency to make Ash lose while still looking better than everyone else who competed in that competition, as opposed to making him seem pathetic (looking at you, Cameron!).
 
Emperor Palpitoad said:
I actually thought that Tobias was a good idea. Ash has now became so strong that legendaries are needed to beat him! And then BW came and ruined that thought...
Click to expand...

Plus, we could've learned more about Tobias but nope. That would be too intriguing for the kids at home.
 
Camoron ftw. The first league rival that shows up well before the league.
 
I like them because they are usually interesting and give great matches, ignoring the most recent league. I don't see the problem with Ash losing, even after traveling as long as he has there's logically going to be people who are still better than him. He lost to Ritchie because of TR interfering and tiring out most of his team, and Charizard not listening to his commands, plus he was just starting out back then. Harrison, Tyson, and Tobias are older and more experienced trainers, who have likely been training far longer than Ash has.
 
When it comes to League Rivals, the good I see in them is that usually the battles are entertaining and fun to watch. Especially when the rival is close to Ash as the league goes on. League Rivals' personalities usually are intriguing and not boring to watch for the episodes.

The bad I see, is that the final rival who faces Ash oftentimes has a battle that isn't as solid as the earlier league battles. I'd like to see all battles with Ash's league rivals be equally as good, and outside factors not interfering with the battle itself.
 
I will say it's pretty bad how we never really got anything more out of Tobias. I'd like to know more about the guy who is capable of catching legendaries when the anime prior to Sinnoh presented them as something not only nearly impossible to catch but the thought of even doing so is seen as wrong. I know it's a pipe dream, but I hope we see him again in a future episode/movie. The fact that he exists and beat Ash doesn't bother me, since if this guy can catch the legendaries he's clearly good enough to be the best out of the people who entered the league, but I don't like how he came out of nowhere and was never heard from again.
 
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