Most overated and most underrated.

Nomura

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I was wondering who, in your opinions, are Ash's top 5 most overrated and top 5 most underrated pokemon. I also want explanations, not just a listing of names...and for the love of God...please don't throw all of Ash's johto pokemon in the most underrated group...we all know they were the most shafted team in history. I want this to be as broad as can be..so please...think and give your opinion.

BTW, 1 will refer to the most overrated and most underrated.

Most Underated:

1.) Pidgeot: Even before it evolved it was one of Ash's most shafted pokemon, and shown to be one of his least utilized and characterized of all his pokemon. It had always showed to be incredibely loyal, and always gave 110%, but the writers never allowed Ash to use it how it should have been...and on top of that...when it evolved into Pidgeot, they threw it away.

2.) Kingler: This pokemon had a strong showing in the indigo league and the whirl cup. Since then it seems that the writers gave up on him. He could have been one of Ash's best pokemon, and a true water powerhouse that Ash could really use. Sadly it has been so underdeveloped since then, it has been left to falling prey to mere voltorb falling down a hill.

3.) Glalie: OMG!!! This was a monster powerhouse for Ash, just dominateing against uber powerful pokemon in Hoenn..and giveing Ash a few victories that he really needed. Since then it has been shafted to the side, and basically forgotten about...what lost potential.

4.) Torkoal: This pokemon had a masterful showing against Registeel, and if it wasn't for the writers giveing him this battle, I'd probably have him at number two. This pokemon has great attack, and even better defenses, but they not only played it out as a little cry baby...they barely gave it any wins...this is another pokemon with great untapped potential.

5.) Charizard: I know I'm gonna get a bunch of WTF are u talking about...but listen to my reasoning first. Yes, this is probably the most developed pokemon of Ash's next to Pikachu, and quite possibly more powerful than that electric rodent...but anytime they need to make Pikachu look good, or give somebody a pass...Charizard has to lose a battle...and most of the time it makes almost completely no sense at all. For instance, so Harrison could get to the final 4, and Ash would be stuck in the final 8...they gave Blaziken the win. Now for some, this doesn't seem so unreasonable, but if you noticed they were both on basically the same level, if not Charizard being on a higher level and still tired from the fight with Gary, and Charizard being part flying so he should have logically had the advantage and won. To go even earlier, they made Charizard completely dissobidient, causing Ash to lose in the Kanto tournament, giveing Richie the win...and sparky. More recently, they gave Pikachu the win in Ash's final frontier battle...and made Charizard lost to Dusclops in the first round, just to make pika look good, and they did the same in the battle againt the Dragonite in the Orange League. Yes, one of Ash's most famous and best pokemon ever, but shafting it so many times like that, I had to put him on the underrated list.

Most Overrated:

1.) Pikachu: Probably the most overrated Pokemon of all time. It won Ash his Orange League trophy and final frontier symbol, both times at the expense of Charizard I might add. It is continuosly played out to be a monster powerhouse...but there are only so many levels a pokemon can rise, and with it being unevolved, I'd say it has hit that point for some time now. But the writers keep makeing it Ash's special trump card, even when logically there are pokemon in his arsenal far more powerful.

2.) Swellow: Argueably Ash's greatest flying, but they made it so in such an unbelievable way. Taking a massive thunder attack, and using it to make a combination attack with pikachu so he can get his 7th Hoenn badge. Or how about when he picked up that Donphan in the league match against Tyson. I mean, sure it's strong, but to not only stop the 10th rollout in a row, fly the Donphan up into the sky, and then throw it and win? Way too much, even if it is just a show...just too much.

3.) Buizel: The current powerhouse in Ash's sinnoh team, but way too unbelievable in my opinion. I mean, he gets traded to Ash, with barely any real experience under his belt, and goes on to win him two Badges back to back...one against it's evolved form. If this pokemon doesn't evolve can someone say pikachu 2.0?

4.) Donphan: I love how they brought this guy back and made it evolve...I was waiting for it to happen. But honestly, when a pokemon evolves, it gets some power, but does not become an uber powerhouse like he did. His rollouts shook the ground, and his hyperbeams nearly went right through pokemon. I think a gradual progression would have made it more believable, but when it happens right off the back...I don't think so.

5.) Bulbasaur: This guy is the best, in my opinion the second best grass type ever right after Sceptile. Even so, it is still a bulbasaur, and gets treated like a Venasaur. Yes, unevolved pokemon can be powerful, but not in the ways that this guy is. He's as fast as a Scyther, and a strong as well, a Venasaur. It's also incredibely calm, collected, and intelligent, makeing for a near invincible grass pokemon, showing nearly now flaws. I mean, back to back wins against a Beedrill and Scyther in the Indigo League 4th round. Then it went on to basically own in the prelims of the Johto league, tieing with Meganium after an equal solar beam. Then it went back to being gone from battles and training all the way until Ash's final Frontier battle, which unlike Charizard and squirtle it has had next to no real training, and yet it had more wins in that match than either squirtle, charizard, or even pikachu. But compared to number one, he's perfect to me.

So, what u guys think?
 
Most Underrated:

Torkoal- Perhaps the most underrated pokemon in the anime. Ash neglects this powerhouse like crazy. Torkoal is continuously ignored.

Kingler- I barely remember this beastly poke getting any praise back in the ol' days in the anime.

Pidgeot- The stupidest thing is, Ash ditches this beast when it finally evolves to its last stage of evolvement. Nothing else should be said, its a shame that happened.

Muk- Wtf, Muk was awesome, yet he was forgotten.

Heracross- I mean, come on, in the competitive battling scene Heracross is a feared attacker. Heracross is ignored in the Johto episodes, usually being left at Oak's farm. Heracross now in the 4th generation has improved alot moveset-wise and has a sweet typing, Heracross should be brought back to see the fame he never got.


Most Overrated:

Pikachu- Ugh, who wouldn't agree that this thing is starting to get very irritating. Its friggin' Thunderbolt attack seems to have a base power of 10,000. This this is not fully evolved but seems to be the strongest pokemon ever in the anime. Ash needs to evolve it and stop giving it so much attention.

Donphan- Way too overpowered and exaggerated. Nothing else to say, other than Donphan isn't that beastly. 0_o

Charizard- This thing beat Gary's Blastoise 0_o. It was always referred to as "Ash's secret weapon" when he was in a tough spot in a battle. I don't think his Charizard was anything amazing.

Swellow- I believe once Ash's Staravia evolves, it will be way more beastly than this stupid thing. It isn't even one of the good bird pokemon in my opinion, but yet it seems to be amazing in the anime.

Buizel- This thing beat Lucario in a gym match!?! No way, this terribly weak and generic Water type doesn't deserve a fraction of the attention and exaggeration it gets in the anime.
 
To be fair, Game Freak seems to give a lot of attention to Pikachu as well, what with the Light Ball giving it quite high Attack and Special Attack stats to go along with its wide movepool. So it's partly Game Freak's fault as well.
 
To be fair, Game Freak seems to give a lot of attention to Pikachu as well, what with the Light Ball giving it quite high Attack and Special Attack stats to go along with its wide movepool. So it's partly Game Freak's fault as well.

Pikachu does not have a wide movepool at all.
 
Most Underrated:

Primeape:primeape was only around for a couple of episodes and could have been a very strong Pokemon but ash left it with that Anthony guy.

Haunter:I know ash didn't technically capture this Pokemon but he could have and it could have been a very strong Pokemon and could of won alot of his kanto gym battles and if he still had it during battle frontier it could have won quite a few battles.

Glalie:This Pokemon could have been a powerful ice type Pokemon and it should have been used during the battle frontier and he could have used this Pokemon in Sinnoh.

Pidgeot:Ash promised to return to this Pokemon after the Orange Islands but never did and this Pokemon could of returned during the battle frontier since it was set in kanto but never did and could have possibly returned in the 10th movie but didn't it could have been a strong Pokemon but its just been left to guard wild Pidgey.

Muk:This Pokemon has almost been forgotten it will make a appearance when ash visits professor oak's laboratory to show its still there but i don't know why ash bothered capturing it he has only used it for a few battles and its only purpose is hugging people

if i have time latter i will post the Most Overrated list.
 
5.) Charizard: I know I'm gonna get a bunch of WTF are u talking about...but listen to my reasoning first. Yes, this is probably the most developed pokemon of Ash's next to Pikachu, and quite possibly more powerful than that electric rodent...but anytime they need to make Pikachu look good, or give somebody a pass...Charizard has to lose a battle...and most of the time it makes almost completely no sense at all. For instance, so Harrison could get to the final 4, and Ash would be stuck in the final 8...they gave Blaziken the win. Now for some, this doesn't seem so unreasonable, but if you noticed they were both on basically the same level, if not Charizard being on a higher level and still tired from the fight with Gary, and Charizard being part flying so he should have logically had the advantage and won. To go even earlier, they made Charizard completely dissobidient, causing Ash to lose in the Kanto tournament, giveing Richie the win...and sparky. More recently, they gave Pikachu the win in Ash's final frontier battle...and made Charizard lost to Dusclops in the first round, just to make pika look good, and they did the same in the battle againt the Dragonite in the Orange League. Yes, one of Ash's most famous and best pokemon ever, but shafting it so many times like that, I had to put him on the underrated list.
What is going on here is that Charizard is suffering from The Worf Effect. It has become such a powerhouse that the early loss at the Battle Pyramid was to increases the tension. Ash's chances of victory suddenly look unlikely, thus the cliffhanger. Note that Charizard did win against a legendary Pokémon at the Battle Factory so it got its Battle Frontier victory then.

As for the Silver Conference, once again Charizard was the hero. It did tremendously against Gary and was an equal to Blaziken. Type advantages don't help much when Charizard isn't using flying moves and Harrison had good strategy which eventually gave him the edge. (In both these examples, the opponent had a counter to Charizard's finishing move.)

Charizard being disobedient was a massive part of its character in Kanto. It wasn't something that came out of nowhere - Ash had to earn the respect of his most powerful Pokémon before he could use it effectively. The problem at the Indigo League, far more blatently than the Silver Conference, was Ash's skills as a trainer. He sent a disobedient Pokémon into battle and the risk didn't pay off.

As for the Orange League, Dragonite was tough. Pikachu got the final blow but the point was that the other Pokémon played their part in taking down its health.

So the only thing stopping Charizard from being the most overpowered is that the writers know it is the most overpowered. If that makes any sense.
 
Charizard being disobedient was a massive part of its character in Kanto. It wasn't something that came out of nowhere - Ash had to earn the respect of his most powerful Pokémon before he could use it effectively. The problem at the Indigo League, far more blatently than the Silver Conference, was Ash's skills as a trainer. He sent a disobedient Pokémon into battle and the risk didn't pay off.

while I won't deny its relevance in the story, it DID come completely out of nowhere. Seriously, as soon as Hitokage evolved into a Lizard, they just made the thing suddenly cope an attitude for the hell of it. It's like the writers figured they could give Satoshi a powerful, evolved beastie (namely the most popular one), but they still wanna put 99% of the focus on the cute plushies, so what do they do? Give him some pulled-out-the-ass handicap to ensure he almost never uses the bigger monster.
 
Somehow the title of this thread isn't really on target and doesn't really do justice to the topic...
3.) Buizel: The current powerhouse in Ash's sinnoh team, but way too unbelievable in my opinion. I mean, he gets traded to Ash, with barely any real experience under his belt, and goes on to win him two Badges back to back...one against it's evolved form. If this pokemon doesn't evolve can someone say pikachu 2.0?
You could reason that Buizel is strong because it is aggressive and loves to show off its power though... Still, he doesn't have a lot of experience I suppose.
 
What is going on here is that Charizard is suffering from The Worf Effect. It has become such a powerhouse that the early loss at the Battle Pyramid was to increases the tension. Ash's chances of victory suddenly look unlikely, thus the cliffhanger. Note that Charizard did win against a legendary Pokémon at the Battle Factory so it got its Battle Frontier victory then.

As for the Silver Conference, once again Charizard was the hero. It did tremendously against Gary and was an equal to Blaziken. Type advantages don't help much when Charizard isn't using flying moves and Harrison had good strategy which eventually gave him the edge. (In both these examples, the opponent had a counter to Charizard's finishing move.)

Charizard being disobedient was a massive part of its character in Kanto. It wasn't something that came out of nowhere - Ash had to earn the respect of his most powerful Pokémon before he could use it effectively. The problem at the Indigo League, far more blatently than the Silver Conference, was Ash's skills as a trainer. He sent a disobedient Pokémon into battle and the risk didn't pay off.

As for the Orange League, Dragonite was tough. Pikachu got the final blow but the point was that the other Pokémon played their part in taking down its health.

So the only thing stopping Charizard from being the most overpowered is that the writers know it is the most overpowered. If that makes any sense.


That last statement does make some sense, but I guess in a way you could say I have some bias towards this issue, and not because charizard is my favorite pokemon. I don't mind him getting beat, especially after a really good fight. I just hate the fact that it's mostly to make pikachu look like a complete badass, or give some trainer the win it really doesn't deserve(I can elaborate if I must).

Also, in Charizard chills I do recall Ash telling him to use wing attack against team rocket. I may be wrong, but I do remember him definately telling him to use his wings, it may or may not have been the actual attack though.
 
Yeah, but Ash didn't battle Harrison's Blaziken in Charizard Chills, did he? That's the point: Charizard may know flying-type attacks, but Ash didn't tell Charizard to use any of them against Blaziken. There's no type advantage if the advantageous attacks are not used.
 
Yeah, I know that, I just wanted to make sure he had the flying attack in his arsenal.

But, I feel it should be mentioned that in my original post, I've consistenly used the term they. Why is this important? Because I'm refferring to the writers. It's not that Ash wouldn't normally take the advantage, it's that the writers make it so Charizard loses, and make the other 4 underrated, well, underrated.(not completely relevant I know)

Neway, we can continue this debate at another time. I made this topic to see who thinks what about Ash's most underrated(shafted) and most overrated pokemon, not to discuss why or whynot charizard gets shafted and if it's reasonable or not, no matter how interesting this debate could end up being.

Dr. Ookido- Ur right, I should have called this, pokemon who get shafted because the writers suck and are in love with pikachu.
 
Are we allowed to talk about other Trainers' Pokemon in here? Because while I don't know if it's overrated, I think Hunter J's Drapion is overpowered.
 
Muk is definitely underrated. I was so disappointed Ash didn't use it in Battle Frontier....we haven't seen it in battle since the Johto league.
 
Are we allowed to talk about other Trainers' Pokemon in here? Because while I don't know if it's overrated, I think Hunter J's Drapion is overpowered.

I guess...I mean I did say we are here to talk about the most underrated and most overrated....so yeah why not.
 
Please note: The thread is from 18 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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