Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

winstein

winstein

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In Pokémon, there are lots of different moves used by different Pokémon. However, there are certain moves we don't normally see being used, heard about, or used in a meaningful manner. On the other hand, there are moves we see that are famous or used often. In this type of discussion, we shall discuss the ins-and-outs of the move of the topic, and there will be some base questions that will help you. Every Saturday, a different move will be discussed.

For this week's move-of-the-week, we asked users to vote for a move that's a Hidden Machine. Because Waterfall received the most votes (only two, but it's still the most), the next move shall be Waterfall!

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In-game Description (Move) said:
Base Power: 80 (Physical)
Accuracy: 100
PP: 15

The user charges at the target and may make it flinch. It can also be used to climb a waterfall.
Click to expand...

In-game Description (HM) said:
The user charges the target at an awesome speed. It can also be used to climb a waterfall.
Click to expand...

That's right: this move has two descriptions! However, despite that, the move was not a HM at first. In the first Generation, this move was exclusive to Goldeen and Seaking, which was something to know. This move began to become a HM from Generation 2 onwards, so many more Pokémon began learning it. However, Goldeen and Seaking are still the only ones to learn the move normally.

This move is notable for being a Physical Water attack. Before Generation 4, it was Special, and as such, was inferior to Surf due to the latter's higher power and ability to hit both foes without hitting your teammate. However, Waterfall received some attention now because it's got something to differentiate from Surf. Despite being a HM, not every Water-type learns it!

Here are the usual possible questions about this move (though you could ask other critical questions beyond the listed):
  • How does certain Pokémon (who knows it) use this move?
  • What kind of purpose would this move have for them (in the Pokémon World)?
  • How could this move be used to aid a profession in the Pokémon World?
  • Realistically, would there be any advantage or disadvantage associated with using this move? If yes, what kind of advantage/disadvantage would they have when they use it?
  • Could this move realistically be used by any Pokémon who doesn't learn it normally? If yes, please explain your choices.
  • How would this move be used in competitive battling, realistically or video game-wise?

Other questions:
  • Why isn't it possible for some Water-types to learn or use Waterfall?
  • If a Pokémon is able to learn a stronger Physical Water attack (Crabhammer, Aqua Tail or Razor Shell (due to its secondary effect)), would it be feasible to replace Waterfall with that move?
  • Due to the way Waterfall works in-game (carry the player over a waterfall), if a Pokémon is able to Fly and Surf but not Waterfall (like Swanna and Pelipper), should they be able to achieve the same purpose?

Here are the current users of this move (put in Spoiler since there are so many to list):
  • Squirtle, Wartortle & Blastoise
  • Psyduck & Golduck
  • Poliwag, Poliwhirl, Poliwrath & Politoed
  • Tentacool & Tentacruel
  • Seel & Dewgong
  • Horsea, Seadra & Kingdra
  • Goldeen & Seaking
  • Staryu & Starmie
  • Gyarados
  • Lapras
  • Vaporeon
  • Omanyte & Omastar
  • Kabuto & Kabutops
  • Dratini, Dragonair & Dragonite
  • Mew
  • Totodile, Croconaw & Feraligatr
  • Chinchou & Lanturn
  • Azurill, Marill & Azumarill
  • Wooper & Quagsire
  • Qwilfish
  • Remoraid & Octillery
  • Mantyke & Mantine
  • Suicune
  • Lugia
  • Mudkip, Marshtomp & Swampert
  • Lombre & Ludicolo
  • Carvanha & Sharpedo
  • Wailmer & Wailord
  • Barboach & Whiscash
  • Corphish & Crawdaunt
  • Feebas & Milotic
  • Spheal, Sealeo & Walrein
  • Clamperl, Huntail & Gorebyss
  • Relicanth
  • Luvdisc
  • Latias & Latios
  • Kyogre & Rayquaza
  • Piplup, Prinplup & Empoleon
  • Bibarel
  • Buizel & Floatzel
  • Gastrodon
  • Finneon & Lumineon
  • Phione & Manaphy
  • Arceus
  • Oshawott, Dewott & Samurott
  • Panpour & Simipour
  • Basculin
  • Tirtouga & Carracosta
  • Frillish & Jellicent
  • Alomomola

Thanks for reading, and happy discussing!

~ The Pokémon World Forum Staff


Previous Move-of-the-Weeks:
 
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I wouldn't replace Waterfall for Razor Shell, due to its low BP, but Crabhammer and Aqua Tail I might since their slightly lower accuracy isn't much of a deal. However I may not use Waterfall and Surf at the same time due to the endangerment of having more than one Water type unless a non-water type was able to learn one of the two. I believe the reason why some Water types can't learn Waterfall is because it's only used by Pokemon who live in streams where waterfalls are present and are able to climb through them (like salmon).
 
I always thought the Water/Flying birds should have been able to learn it. (I use a Swanna as an HM slave with Surf, Fly, and Dive, and was really disppointed at the inability to learn Waterfall.) It makes sense for an aquatic bird to flap up waterfalls if it can already swim on top of the water.

I'm surprised that Luvdisc and Omastar learn it. They're based off animals that are weak or slow and would have a hard time swimming up larger cascades.

In the Pokemon world, I see Waterfall as a crucial move for mountain and cave explorers with Surf so they aren't stopped from going upstream. (although, despite game mechanics forcing travel to actual cities instead of around obstacles, Fly could use a similar purpose realistically in those situations)
 
I'm curious as to what Waterfall actually looks like when used. I always imagined it as a giant cascade of water appearing above the foe and crashing down on them, similar to Rock Slide in the anime, but the game description and animation make it seem like some kind of tackle.
I think the only time it was used in the anime it appeared to be some kind of water column that shoots upwards, though that was during a contest appeal.
 
Waterfall is good for Azumarill, who has access to Huge Power. Not only does it receive STAB, but it's also got an awesome physical attack boost when it uses Waterfall. In the recent games, I always had Huge Power'd Azumarill learn Waterfall if I can because the damage done is surprisingly similar to a STAB'd Surf, if not better.
 
The only really viable users of this move in OU are Azumarill and perhaps Feraligatr and Gyarados (Though these two are arguably not good enough). Azumarill fires these things off with ridiculous power in the rain.
 
I find this move to be a pretty reliable one. I imagine a user creating an "aura" of water around him and charging at the enemy.

Takaki said:
The only really viable users of this move in OU are Azumarill and perhaps Feraligatr and Gyarados (Though these two are arguably not good enough). Azumarill fires these things off with ridiculous power in the rain.
Click to expand...

Gyarados not good enough? I would say it is better than Azumarill in OU.
 
@Lord Clowncrete; Gyarados requires a lot of support to even switch in and all it really offers to rain teams is more weaknesses whilst at least Azumarill can revenge kill stuff.
 
Takaki said:
@Lord Clowncrete; Gyarados requires a lot of support to even switch in and all it really offers to rain teams is more weaknesses whilst at least Azumarill can revenge kill stuff.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but tbh, Gyara can fill a lot more roles than Azu anyday. I have used it as a phazer and it does pretty well. It can go bulky dd or even offensive dd. Its typing infact makes it easier to switch it in along with intimidate.

Although, cb azumarill is powerful, I rarely find it useful apart from revenging terrakion and occasionally volcy. Its speed is just far too less to sweep. Once it gets locked into a move, it is a sitting duck and frankly, I never regard choice banded mons as good wall-breakers(except for dragons).
 
Just a quick warning: this thread is about the move Waterfall, not about the usability of Pokemon.

Thanks for reading.
 
I love Waterfall, because it's oh-so-useful on my favorite Pokemon, Sharpedo. Besides fanboyism, it's the go to move for nearly all physical water types, such as Crawdaunt, Floatzel, Swampert, Gyarados. Water being the popular and common type it is, this move was probably benefited more than any other in the physical/special split. Well, besides maybe Shadow Ball and pretty much every dark-type move......
 
I imagine the aquatic birds can't learn Waterfall because they only use their feet to swim while everything else has fins and four-limb propulsion. Luvdisc is still a mystery though. Maybe Omanyte is strong enough to hold on to earth behind a waterfall and slowly climb up as the trainer holds on to it's shell? I like that image.
 
Waterfall is one of those moves with a very misleading name. It sounds like it should cast a waterfall upon your opponent, but instead it's a direct attack. When I imagine it being used in a "real world" environment, I picture a sort of Aqua Jet-like move where they charge while being engulfed in water. Sort of like how Squirtle uses it in Brawl.

Squirtle_Waterfall.jpg


If used in the water, I imagine it could be used with a bit more diversity, such as when Zoey's Finneon used it and swam up a geyser of water.
 
Waterfall is an amazing move. It is strong, accurate, has a good chance to cause flinching, and has an effect outside of battle in most main series games. Before the introduction of physical/special split, it was just a worse Surf, though. I'm really not happy that Liquidation has beecome a tutor move recently, since there aren't many Pokemon that learn the former but not the latter, and they could easily have made it an egg move for things like Ducklett, Shellder, and Binacle.
I don't mind certain Water Pokemon not getting the move, as it helps them stand out a bit. I also miss the times when it was required to progress in the story.
 
Please note: The thread is from 7 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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