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Nerfing the Walls?

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Matleo

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the same as by nerfing the types and others.
Your ideas what to buff and what to nerf to " nerf the walls"

We have 1 hit KO moves, wallbreakers and sweapers but is it enough?
 
You can't "nerf a wall" because it's not "the same as by nerfing the types and others". Both in theory and practicality, nerfing walls simply isn't a possibluty.

Theoretically, a wall is a role that a pokemon plays, by nerfing walls, walls no longer exist. The theory of these terms is to define a pokemon's role, not it's advantage compared to other pokemon.

Practically, to nerf walls, you would have to go out and nerf every single pokemon that functions as a wall, putting them ata disadvantage compared to other pokemon. This process is impossible because of how varied walls can be. Let's pretend that Pikachu and Articuno are now both walls in a new special teir. To nerf Articuno and to nerf pikachu as pokemon require completely different methods. Even though this is a made up teir with no relevance to the actual metagame, this example is useful in showing how difficult it would be to nerf all the walls.

Walls, stallers, and whatever other threads you put up suggesting to nerf these types just don't work, the terminology is there because they exist as a role, which defines how a pokemon functions, not how powerful it is.
 
do we have moves to lower defense and special defense? think of it.
We also have moves and abilities to regulate speed, attack and sp. attack.
 
Matleo said:
do we have moves to lower defense and special defense? think of it.
We also have moves and abilities to regulate speed, attack and sp. attack.
Click to expand...

These moves exist, but not for the purpose of nerfing other pokemon. They can be designed to create balance, or give advantage to other pokemon, but they don't offer and option of "nerfing walls". Adding more random stat changing moves does not solve any problem - of there was one.

Going further into nerfing walls, wallbreakers exist to "wallbreak". These pokemon are used in the role, in which they are used to get through the opponent's walls. If you want to nerf walls, make better wall breakers.

All of this is irrelevant anyway. There has to be a reason to nerf walls in the first place. Are walls dominating the metagame, causing havoc to all teams? Does every team have to prepare for walls? Are walls causing an inherent problem which makes the metagame unbalanced? Without reason, there is no reason to create an imbalance in pokemon which perfectly targets one specific role. Until walls provide a sufficient problem to the way the competitive scene is balanced, then there is no reason for their role in game to be nerfed.
 
Not really understanding what you mean. Like @Tea & Scones; said, you can't "nerf" walls. While there are clearly Pokemon meant to be more Defensive and Stally, there is no canon "wall Pokemon". ANY Pokemon can be a wall in the right situation and Nerfing is something that is meant to even out or weaken something specific. You can't nerf a role that can be filled by practically any Pokemon with the right spread because that nerf may not be applicable to all walls.

It's like saying how do we Nerf Lead Stealth Rock setters or glass cannons. Like...IDK, remove Stealth Rock from their learnset altogether? That'd be one way to do it. As for glass cannons, lower their attacking stats and Speed so you can outspeed them easier. Like you're essentially asking how to take away the purpose any particular mon has by asking how to nerf the role a Pokemon plays.
 
what about one hit KO moves?

not wanting to take anything away.
Only see what arguments and discussion will start.
 
The best way to ensure walls will not be problematic again would be to get rid of Shadow Tag and Arena Trap. Without them, walls can be destroyed by a lot of stuff (SubToxic Heatran, Band Tyranitar, Specs Lele, etc.) but trappers allow people to remove checks and counters, meaning that a team needs to dedicate at least two slots to deal with these teams, which isn't healthy when there are so many playstyles to prepare for.
 
Sablaireau said:
The best way to ensure walls will not be problematic again would be to get rid of Shadow Tag and Arena Trap. Without them, walls can be destroyed by a lot of stuff (SubToxic Heatran, Band Tyranitar, Specs Lele, etc.) but trappers allow people to remove checks and counters, meaning that a team needs to dedicate at least two slots to deal with these teams, which isn't healthy when there are so many playstyles to prepare for.
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ghost cant get trapped?
thats a way. But maybe we should get some bug or other pokemon that could hurt pokemon that trap you with arena trap and shadow tag and other moves?
 
Matleo said:
ghost cant get trapped?
thats a way. But maybe we should get some bug or other pokemon that could hurt pokemon that trap you with arena trap and shadow tag and other moves?
Click to expand...

This has turned into a discussion which pinpoints a particular team layout and strategy, and how most teams prepare for it. The point Sablaireau raised was that if walls were to become a sufficient problem, in the advent that they need nerfing, would be to remove the use of trapping abilities, which when used effectively, eliminate most pokemon that can deal with walls.

Furthermore, what you just suggested in response to his reply was a way that pokemon could hurt pokemon that trap them, without any given explanation of how this would work and the circumstances it would occur in. Is this an ability? Does it deal damage consecutively over turns? Or does it deal damage in one go? Is it a move that has it's power doubled? Maybe we could create items etc. etc..
 
Tea & Scones said:
Is this an ability? Does it deal damage consecutively over turns? Or does it deal damage in one go? Is it a move that has it's power doubled? Maybe we could create items etc. etc..
Click to expand...
lets say when some animal get trapped they have defense mechanism, like spraing acid in the eyses, use smoke screen to get away and etcetera.
Maybe a ability that when the user is trapped it send out energy or something? or a reaction to trapping like an extra attack or this kind?
 
Please note: The thread is from 8 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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