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Nerfing the Water type

Guzma

Guzma

Actually Your Boy Guzma
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Okay, so something I've noticed a lot of Pokémon fans talk about is complaints that Water is a bit OP for a couple of reasons.

First off, it has great defensive typing, resisting two of the best offensive types: It resists Fire, which is already poor defensively (Stealth Rock, LOL), And also resists Ice, which ain't even that good offensively... Unless it's used as a coverage move by (guess what) Water-types. It also resists Steel, which isn't useful offensively aside from taking out Fairies. This means Water pairs real well with Fairy.
Second, Water is also strong offensively, dealing SE damage to the mighty Ground-type (which it pairs up well with, BTW), as well as dealing SE damage to the defensively poor Fire and Rock-types. In addition, its "weakness" to Grass isn't much of a weakness thanks to most Water-types having access to Ice-type attacks, leaving only Electric-types as a real threat.

So, do you guys think Water needs a nerf? It's nowhere near as bad as Gen I Psychic or Gen IV-V Dragon, so I'm not sure. I'm leaning towards "yes," though. My suggestions are the two cliche ones: make it weak to Ice (freezing water, although I understand GF's logic in making Water resist Ice) and Poison (pollution).
 
Water and Ice should be super effective against each other. Ice freezes water, and water melts ice.

Water and Poison should also be super effective against each other. Poison pollutes water, and water dilutes poison.

Other than that, I don't think there should be any changes.
 
I've always thought that Poisons SE advantage against Grass should be removed and instead given to Water. Like, Water gets infected with sludge and toxins and fish die.

And personally, I think it would make more sense if Water lost its resistance to Ice and they became neutral to each other (either that, or give Ice a Water resistance to make it even).
 
DoctorWhy said:
I've always thought that Poisons SE advantage against Grass should be removed and instead given to Water. Like, Water gets infected with sludge and toxins and fish die.
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I kind of agree? I mean, I can see the logic in Grass being weak to Poison, but Grass needs a buff of some sort. Hell, Bug lost its Poison-type weakness pretty quickly. I kind of wish it had kept the advantage against Poison, but I'm biased in favor of Bug.
 
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Kyriaki said:
Water and Ice should be super effective against each other. Ice freezes water, and water melts ice.

Water and Poison should also be super effective against each other. Poison pollutes water, and water dilutes poison.

Other than that, I don't think there should be any changes.
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I feel like if we follow this type of logic, then it would just add to the problem of type weaknesses and problems i.e. fire boils water, water corrodes steel, etc. etc. Although, your idea of poison being effective against water isn't bad, leaving pokemon with access to moves like poison jab or sludge bomb a chance against water types and their moves. A good example of this would be Garchomp, having a 4x weakness to ice, could now have a chance against slower water types. (Not that Garchomp is weak or anything, just an example). This sort of idea would leave a larger variant of Pokemon that are able to counter the water type.
 
as i say every time there's a "how do we buff/nerf [type]" thread: rip up the type chart and start over. (band-aid fix being to introduce a new type but since, as you say, it's not as bad as Psychic and Dragon have been i doubt Water being strong, as it has p much always been, would merit a new type to balance it.)
 
Water type, my old nemesis....

I think Water could definitely stand to lose the resistance to Ice.

Also, I've always been just a little irked that there just isn't much that resists Water. If you aren't packing a Water-type yourself, you need either Grass (which has too many weak points already, including Ice) or Dragon (hello Ice). But at least weather is a thing (Sunny Day) if you want to nerf it temporarily.
 
no nerf, I think its ok, wait till we will get faster electric types.

If water would be weak to poison then you would complain of primarinas 4x weaknes to it...
 
Giving it a weakness to Poison would be good. Even though Poison already got a boost being strong against Fairy it could still use more, Steel is more popular because of the massive amounts of resistances. That would definitely help balance things out a bit more.

The downside to that though, is that would hurt Grass even more, since not only would one of its weaknesses be more common but it'd be creeping in on one of its offensive niches.
 
PkmnTrainerV said:
@Matleo No Type weakness should depend on the fact that ONE Pokemon has 4x effectiveness on it. It's not as if Primarina is on its way to Ubers.
(And we already have fast electric types).
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that was not a wish only I though about it. I like the type hart like it is now, but would want only ghost resist ice and ice resist ghost.

(I would want a water/electric fast jaguar starter, fast and sweeper kind material, something like infernape in stats , but with lower ofense and better defense)

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what about maybe a poison move super efective to water pokemon?
 
Matleo said:
what about maybe a poison move super efective to water pokemon?
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Wouldn't really help much, because then either it would be too rare on Poison types to make an impact or it would have the same effect on Grass as just giving Water a regular weakness to Poison.
 
Water isn't too bad now, and the worst part of it (permanent weather) was nerfed in Gen VI. I'd say that the Fairy and Steel types are doing better currently. I wouldn't really risk changing the typechart for a type that really isn't much of a problem now, especially one that keeps threats like Heatran, Volcarona, and Landorus-T in check.
 
Sablaireau said:
Water isn't too bad now, and the worst part of it (permanent weather) was nerfed in Gen VI. I'd say that the Fairy and Steel types are doing better currently. I wouldn't really risk changing the typechart for a type that really isn't much of a problem now, especially one that keeps threats like Heatran, Volcarona, and Landorus-T in check.
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hope for new pookemon with a fairy and one with a steel immunity.
 
One thing I feel overlooked is how not only Water basically is only weak to Electric, but that Electric offense for the most part is relegated entirely to handle Water types, with the flying weakness being more of either a convenience or... coverage for water types. Electric should have an offensive buff.

Removing Ice's resistance would help immensely since Water is a tanky type in general. I'd be down for even an SE if not for Freeze Dry (which honestly, to me just sounded like GameFreak acknowledging the problems of Ice and Water and just slapping a tiny piece of tape over it)

I agree it needs resisted by something else too. I'd say Poison would be good for that.

But in general Water types have a ton of and the best coverage options and are really varied. There's not much you can do about movepools without retconning (which would solve a lot of problems), so it seems more of a matter of balancing the other types weighted against it.

So I'd think the best course would be to buff Grass types expressly against Water types a lot. Make a grass type entry hazard that works like stealth rock.
 
By far the most annoying water types are the bulky ones with access to reliable recovery options. Given the lack of good Electric or Grass wallbreakers, they can be incredibly difficult to take down while they chip away at your health with Scald burns or Toxic poison, unless you can set up on them or take advantage of their secondary weaknesses.
 
Slife said:
By far the most annoying water types are the bulky ones with access to reliable recovery options. Given the lack of good Electric or Grass wallbreakers, they can be incredibly difficult to take down while they chip away at your health with Scald burns or Toxic poison, unless you can set up on them or take advantage of their secondary weaknesses.
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Yes! I thought I hated Ferrowthorn (though it could be taken down by a fire move, and I had atleast 2 fire types in said Team with powerful moves (MegaZardX Flare Blitz and Typhlosion's Eruption)), but that was before Toxapex came. My Electric Type slot if filled in by a Volt Tackle Raichu, which more often then not gets poisoned due to Baneful Bunker and dies a painful death. So I have to risk and cripple my other cuicial Pokemon in order to prevent my whole team from getting poisoned.

Now I've taken a pledge to hate Toxapex with all my heart!
 
what if bugs and poison would resist water?
and if electric, bug, grass would resist fairy?
 
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