Newsweek on gay kid murder: "He deserved it".

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http://www.newsweek.com/id/147790

I haven't seen a more blatant case of blame the victim in years. Basically, it says that Lawrence King more or less deserved to be murdered because he hit on other boys and cross dressed. I used to like Newsweek, but this is just sickening. Reminds me of those articles that spread the "gay panic" defense, saying things like "Oh, Matthew Shepard started it because he hit on some guys and they were so scared of being bum-raped they killed him, perfectly understandable."

You gotta love the 100 comments that basically boil down to "He TOTALLY deserved it / only perverted old men are gay / why would we let perverts in our schools".
 
And those are the kind of people that prevent me from being completely open in public. I'm still fearful that someone will come after me with a bat just because I "looked at him weird."
 
I don't see how anyone can sneak a gun into schoo like that. I mean, don't they have metal dectectors or something?

I feel sorry for larry though, he comes out thinking he's free and then he dies a few years after. I really don't understand why people can't just accept the fact that some people are gay?

And in all honesty, it comes from the people in the Bible Belt who thinks that being gay among other things are wrong.
 
Lethal Carnivine said:
I don't see how anyone can sneak a gun into schoo like that. I mean, don't they have metal dectectors or something?
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Columbine happened my freshman year of high school. I've NEVER seen a metal detector outside of an airport.

And in all honesty, it comes from the people in the Bible Belt who thinks that being gay among other things are wrong.
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Not only that, but "we" (the quotes are to note that while I live here, I'm not part of the Biblethumpers) believe there to be an actual gay agenda (I think some believe it to be a tangible object). One politician is even claiming to have successfully defended this state from the gay agenda (in a crappy comic book with guys dressed in fairy costumes, no less).

Zeta said:
You gotta love the 100 comments that basically boil down to "He TOTALLY deserved it / only perverted old men are gay / why would we let perverts in our schools".
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Ever been to FoxNews.com's forum? It's like walking into a mental institution.

All told, this is a sad thing to have to happen. But it's the sad price of acceptance in this country. Give it time. The killings will (mostly) stop (there are ALWAYS a few left, but they largely shut up over time). People are scared of things that are different. And, when faced with a frightful situation, you either run or fight. Running makes you look bad in front of your friends. Thus, fighting is all that's left. It's fucked up.
 
Sorry, Zeta. But I'm going to have to totally disagree with you there.

The article says no such thing. I also think "the other side" has a point. It was one thing for Larry to express his sexuality. But I think he was a bit too young to fully understand exactly what that meant. We see so-called signs of "sexual" behavior from kids younger and younger these days. I have a friend whose older brother made out with a girl on the kindergarten bus when he was little. I think a lot of that is simply emulation of what they see in the media, and what's siphoning down from their older siblings.

Larry was probably inundated with ideas on what "gay" was. But, I'll tell you what. I don't think I know a whole lot of gay people that would act like that. Most of them are just like heterosexuals, with a few key behavioral difference, but their attraction happens to be towards males. I'm not so sure the kid really was gay. Even if he really was attracted to boys and not girls, which is debatable, most of his actions were clearly a cry for attention. And I think the assistant principal was foolish to allow it to go on.

Had he been a girl dressing in such a manner, he most certainly would have been called on it. But I think maybe there is some ground for saying Larry's flamboyant behavior may have been manipulated as a political maneuver on the part of Principal Epstein. And that's just sad. She was using him as a pawn, I think. And she did put him in danger. Because kids are cruel. Perhaps over time they may develop more sex positive attitudes. But unless they're raised with the utmost respect for alternative lifestyles, and surrounded by peers who've had that same kind of upbringing, it's unlikely they'll display such attitudes during early adolescence. "Gay" is a slur and a slang word to them.

Larry was, in fact, sexually harassing a fellow student. And it should have been stopped. Especially since I believe Larry may not have been gay. Or perhaps he was confused about his sexual identity, and was pushed into a very unstable situation by people with an agenda. It should never have been allowed to happen. Larry should have been told there was a big difference between self-expression and potentially offensive behavior.
 
The sad thing is, there are people who won't care that there was a murder at all, at a SCHOOL, because the kid was/could have been gay. That's just about as fucked up. Whatever the "reason" was, there was a murder. That's enough to be angry about, and even more so that it was a student. And heck, whoever killed him is bound to kill someone else. No one in their right mind sees someone they just don't like and kill them (I'm emphasizing "right mind" here, because needless to say this happens a lot, so it's not like I'm saying otherwise, but the point that if it was on this level schools would be target ranges).
 
Ralli said:
The sad thing is, there are people who won't care that there was a murder at all, at a SCHOOL, because the kid was/could have been gay. That's just about as fucked up. Whatever the "reason" was, there was a murder. That's enough to be angry about, and even more so that it was a student. And heck, whoever killed him is bound to kill someone else. No one in their right mind sees someone they just don't like and kill them (I'm emphasizing "right mind" here, because needless to say this happens a lot, so it's not like I'm saying otherwise, but the point that if it was on this level schools would be target ranges).
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I'll agree to a point. It's a tragedy about the murder. But I think maybe you're missing some key facts in this case.

For starters, the shooter's name was Brandon. The victim's name was Larry. it wasn't that Brandon "just didn't like" Larry. Larry apparently had some kind of unrequited feelings for Brandon. And he was harassing Brandon about it publicly. Yes, "harassing" is the word. From what I've been told, it's a cardinal rule in the gay community that you don't hit on your straight friends. If you have serious feelings for them, you have to be careful about coming forward with those feelings. Especially in public where they might be potentially humiliated for it. This is certainly one of the things that makes me think that Larry may not have been gay, but simply using garish tactics and insincere flamboyancy as a means of getting attention. He didn't seem to have a clue about gay etiquette.

Seeing as how kids can be both ignorant and cruel by nature, the worst is exactly what happened. Brandon was being teased mercilessly by fellow students over the ordeal. Larry was making Brandon feel uncomfortable, and was pretty much encouraged to do so by the assistant principal. It's worth mentioning that said assistant principal, Ms. Epstein, was a lesbian who may possibly have had some kind of pro-gay agenda. There's nothing wrong with pro-gay, but trying to make a "little gay soldier" out of such a young kid in the emotional shitstorm that is middle school reeks of stupidity and negligence.

No one is arguing that Brandon wasn't disturbed. It was made quite clear that he came from a disturbed background. Larry, the victim, also came from a disturbed background. And both unstable elements met to cause a tragedy. Both of them probably needed counseling and better direction/guidance. But it's too late now. I feel very sorry for both of them and their families. The school really bungled things.
 
I don't see how the principal made larry into a gay solider just by sticking up for him.

But then again, the problem is as you said, the staff really didn't do squat about anything for both sides.

Personally, i think Brandon should be tried as an adult for this case. He murdered someone for crying out loud, and that is not something 3 years in prison can fix.
 
I probably should read more responses before I post but this leads me to wonder on the issue of wither Rape should be considered a crime of capital punishment/give death sentence. Is it enough to claim self defense in a case like this resulting in murder? It seems like no.. but if we change the genders, does this become a different issue?

Just something that this made me think about. (I should also note that I definitely am for getting life sentence or close to it... but death sentence is something different)
 
Lethal Carnivine said:
I don't see how the principal made larry into a gay solider just by sticking up for him.

But then again, the problem is as you said, the staff really didn't do squat about anything for both sides.

Personally, i think Brandon should be tried as an adult for this case. He murdered someone for crying out loud, and that is not something 3 years in prison can fix.
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Well, that's the thing. The staff tried doing something about it. But every time they did, they were shot down by Principal Epstein. Even if the staff had valid arguments that Larry was being "disruptive." They were told to basically just to let it be. To ignore it. And in my opinion, that wasn't helping anyone. They needed to get a third-party counselor involved. Not just a principal who may have had a gay/lesbian agenda. Larry needed a trained professional to help him work through his feelings, sexual and otherwise. Brandon probably needed much the same. But too late now.

And I completely disagree about "3 years in prison can't fix this." You're right. Three years in prison won't fix it. No amount of prison time will! The kid needs to be in a clinical facility, not a prison. I think one of the factors that led to him taking such a drastic and horrible measure to solve his problem is the fact that he was being raised by what sounds to be white trash parents. And I'll bet you a box of spicy stewed donuts that his father was not the "pro-gay type" and probably was no stranger to macho behavior and violent gay bashing.

Usually I might say that the kid had no excuse, and personal responsibility should be taken. But ONLY if the kid were an adult, or had a history of disregard for others and/or violent behavior. And this does not seem to be the case.

Bell02二世 said:
I probably should read more responses before I post but this leads me to wonder on the issue of wither Rape should be considered a crime of capital punishment/give death sentence. Is it enough to claim self defense in a case like this resulting in murder? It seems like no.. but if we change the genders, does this become a different issue?

Just something that this made me think about. (I should also note that I definitely am for getting life sentence or close to it... but death sentence is something different)
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Well, yeah, this Brandon kid wasn't really raped. But he was getting harassed sexually. Had this been a case of a boy harassing a girl, though, you bet the school would have done something about it. But since it was a gay male harassing another male, and the principal seemingly had an agenda, nothing was done. No action was taken to seperate the boys. No move was made to explain to Larry that his advances were making Brandon feel uncomfortable. Brandon identified as a heterosexual and that wasn't likely to change at that point in his life. Larry should have been made to understand that.

As a matter of respect, that respect goes two ways. The school was not ensuring that boundaries were kept on both sides. It was very one-sided. Larry was given authority to do whatever he wanted. And that was wrong. Do what you want freely, so long as you're not treading on the freedom of others. And sadly, Larry was. Though I don't blame him. Of course he was testing his boundaries. He was young. And when no boundaries were set, he took full advantage. And, unfortunately, he invaded the personal boundaries of another, very disturbed young man. And things ended tragically. But I don't think that means that Brandon needs prison. I think he needs intensive therapy.

It is Principal Epstein's fault for being so dismissive of the situation, as though by letting Larry do whatever he pleased she was striking a blow for gay rights. In fact, she was simply putting the very young and impressionable Larry in danger both emotional and physical. If he really was gay, he'll never know now. He'll never know true love in a secure relationship with an understanding partner, will he? And on top of that, the life of another equally young and impressionable young man has been turned upside down. Who knows. Brandon and Larry might have ended up together. But leaving things unchecked at such a critical stage in their adolescent development... That was the mistake. That's the tragedy.
 
After reading more into the article I believe I understand what Zeta meant. The article goes from being about a murder case to immediately going to the point of the article: homosexual children coming out a lot earlier than before. Obviously it isn't talking about an issue of Homophobia or even a hate crime that no one really reacted to. (Really, no kids jumped or hid? Teachers did not react? Everyone waited for police to make a reaction?) This leads to implications that it's the kid's fault that he is dead for "coming out too early".

They didn't directly say it, but if they can pick apart other's statements in the same manner, then I'm sure it's readers deserve that right as well. I just wonder if they will make an apologetic statement for it's presentation.

Mew2Too said:
Well, yeah, this Brandon kid wasn't really raped. But he was getting harassed sexually. Had this been a case of a boy harassing a girl, though, you bet the school would have done something about it. But since it was a gay male harassing another male, and the principal seemingly had an agenda, nothing was done. No action was taken to seperate the boys. No move was made to explain to Larry that his advances were making Brandon feel uncomfortable. Brandon identified as a heterosexual and that wasn't likely to change at that point in his life. Larry should have been made to understand that.

As a matter of respect, that respect goes two ways. The school was not ensuring that boundaries were kept on both sides. It was very one-sided. Larry was given authority to do whatever he wanted. And that was wrong. Do what you want freely, so long as you're not treading on the freedom of others. And sadly, Larry was. Though I don't blame him. Of course he was testing his boundaries. He was young. And when no boundaries were set, he took full advantage. And, unfortunately, he invaded the personal boundaries of another, very disturbed young man. And things ended tragically. But I don't think that means that Brandon needs prison. I think he needs intensive therapy.

It is Principal Epstein's fault for being so dismissive of the situation, as though by letting Larry do whatever he pleased she was striking a blow for gay rights. In fact, she was simply putting the very young and impressionable Larry in danger both emotional and physical. If he really was gay, he'll never know now. He'll never know true love in a secure relationship with an understanding partner, will he? And on top of that, the life of another equally young and impressionable young man has been turned upside down. Who knows. Brandon and Larry might have ended up together. But leaving things unchecked at such a critical stage in their adolescent development... That was the mistake. That's the tragedy.
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Actually, that is something I didn't think about, and you make a very good point. This was a cause of elevated aggravation.

When I originally made the statement, I was making an extreme case of this trying to allude to cases of that type. (Attempted Rape, not necessarily rape) However your statement brings up another valid point of unequal equality movement. Is it right for Non-whites to make White racial slurs, is it right to have an accepted unequal bias on one gender over another, or in this case, is it right to let a homosexual kid do whatever they want sexually because the person doesn't want to be labeled homophobic?
 
Bell02二世 said:
Actually, that is something I didn't think about, and you make a very good point. This was a cause of elevated aggravation.

When I originally made the statement, I was making an extreme case of this trying to allude to cases of that type. (Attempted Rape, not necessarily rape) However your statement brings up another valid point of unequal equality movement. Is it right for Non-whites to make White racial slurs, is it right to have an accepted unequal bias on one gender over another, or in this case, is it right to let a homosexual kid do whatever they want sexually because the person doesn't want to be labeled homophobic?
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Oh, yes. I certainly think the unequal equality factor figures into it. That's probably one reason the teachers took it no further than the principal of the school, authority-wise. They might have lost their jobs for being "homophobic."

But there's possibly a much deeper tragedy to it that occurs to me as I give the matter more thought. I start to consider something that was mentioned in the article in passing. Something about Larry having very intimate knowledge of a scratch that Brandon had on his arm. Larry said that he'd given Brandon the scratch while they were together. Who's to say that Brandon is a heterosexual at all? Maybe he did "experiment" with Larry. Maybe Brandon is actually a blossoming homosexual who has not yet come to terms with his feelings in the face of peer pressure. Who's to say Brandon would not have, or might still, leave the "closet" as a homosexual in the future.

This may not be just a "hate crime." In fact, it could be something much worse. It could be a case of betrayal. Two very young homosexuals may have had their lives ruined over this, and the school is at fault. Maybe Brandon really was developing feelings for Larry. Maybe they were even "acting" on it behind closed doors. But if Larry forced Brandon before he was ready to come to terms with his sexuality so publicly, it may have seemed to Brandon he was being forced to react drastically. He's just a kid. They were both just kids. And I think they were both very confused about... Well, everything.
 
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Regardless of harassment, shooting a classmate in the back of their head is not justified. My beef with the Newsweek article is that it seems to be justifying it by saying things like "Larry wielded his sexuality like a weapon", implying that it's justified to use one weapon to fight another and thus "gun vs gay comeons" are both an even match of arms, and both equally destructive.

I probably should read more responses before I post but this leads me to wonder on the issue of wither Rape should be considered a crime of capital punishment/give death sentence. Is it enough to claim self defense in a case like this resulting in murder? It seems like no.. but if we change the genders, does this become a different issue?
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This issue has been discussed recently with Bush trying to make it so that child molestation is punishable by death. Even if you believe it's justified, there's a highly flawed problem with such a tactic - many rapists let their victims live, not too terribly worried about them telling. If getting convicted of rape is a death sentence, more rapists would probably kill their victims since they'll be killed if they're discovered anyways.
 
Read this very article a few days ago. Sounds like one fucked up kid killing another fucked up kid to me. Incredibly sad, but not at all surprising.

Honestly, this Larry kid sounds annoying as hell. o.o; I don't think leaving the problem of this kid making a fool of himself unchecked was directly responsible for his murder, since the taunting and subsequent killing probably would have gone on either way. But it bothers me to see teachers being forced to ignore such a disruptive kid like that. Not that he deserved to be killed, of course.

Don't really see how the article is in any way saying anyone deserves to be shot in the head, but the way it focuses more on teenagers flaunting their sexuality instead of the murder is pretty odd. I remember going "so what exactly does this have to do with the actual killing?" in my head while reading the article.
 
Mew2Too said:
Oh, yes. I certainly think the unequal equality factor figures into it. That's probably one reason the teachers took it no further than the principal of the school, authority-wise. They might have lost their jobs for being "homophobic."

But there's possibly a much deeper tragedy to it that occurs to me as I give the matter more thought. I start to consider something that was mentioned in the article in passing. Something about Larry having very intimate knowledge of a scratch that Brandon had on his arm. Larry said that he'd given Brandon the scratch while they were together. Who's to say that Brandon is a heterosexual at all? Maybe he did "experiment" with Larry. Maybe Brandon is actually a blossoming homosexual who has not yet come to terms with his feelings in the face of peer pressure. Who's to say Brandon would not have, or might still, leave the "closet" as a homosexual in the future.

This may not be just a "hate crime." In fact, it could be something much worse. It could be a case of betrayal. Two very young homosexuals may have had their lives ruined over this, and the school is at fault. Maybe Brandon really was developing feelings for Larry. Maybe they were even "acting" on it behind closed doors. But if Larry forced Brandon before he was ready to come to terms with his sexuality so publicly, it may have seemed to Brandon he was being forced to react drastically. He's just a kid. They were both just kids. And I think they were both very confused about... Well, everything.
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The thing is, as you said, kids do experiment with their sexuality at this young age. And that's probably because of puberty and all of that stuff.

Now I'm not saying that your scenario could not have happened, but somehow I think Brandon was at the most bi. I mean, if he was gay adn did show feelings for him, than why did he shoot him? Why coulcn't they have their relationship behind closed doors?

The true underlying problem of this is that in middle school, it really is a jungle because if you say something unique or odd or anything(Such as larry's behavior), than you are shunned for it.
 
I herd u liek Swampert? said:
Why is that an issue? Would it be better for you if he had been an ACTIVE heterosexual 15 year old boy?
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It would sure be more natural.

But not very moral.

Well, that kid was apparently sick. His biological mother was a drug addict, the father is unknown (possibly the mother didn't know who was the father). It's pretty obvious she used drugs and drank during her pregnancy.

That's why this case is so hard. I really can't tell whether he deserved to be murdered, it is a really hard example.
 
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Maxim Gwanjangnim said:
It would sure be more natural.

But not very moral.

Well, that kid was apparently sick. His biological mother was a drug addict, the father is unknown (possibly the mother didn't know who was the father). It's pretty obvious she used drugs and drank during her pregnancy.

That's why this case is so hard. I really can't tell whether he deserved to be murdered, it is a really hard example.
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Wha? Of course he didn't deserve to be murdered. o.o How does someone being an attention whore and something of a bully equate even considering whether or not that person deserved to be brutally killed?
 
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