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Archaic

Archaic

黒い王様
Archaic - Webmaster Scorbunny Fan Sprigatito Fan
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Clubs in this forum are highly encouraged to migrate to the Social Groups system over the next few weeks. You've got about a month's grace period, tops, then this forum and all threads in it go to the archives. I'll leave public viewing for it on, through a social group, but it won't be on the main forum list when that happens.

If you need help setting up a social group, ask here.

Please don't create duplicate social groups. If one already exists for your club's purpose, and it has an inactive founder or there's some other conflict, let us know and we'll try to resolve it. For preference, we'll merge the groups, but if there's a valid reason you can't be together, we'll work something out.
 
I vehemently disagree with this move.

People don't use the social groups because they're clunky, badly formatted, not easily linked, you can't upload any files to there, and you have to jump though hoops to get anything accomplished.

People use the clubs because they're convienant--just like the entire rest of the forum. Why have something that's so incredibly far removed from the rest of the forum? Why in the world would we want to move?

It's worked swimmingly for years and years, then when social groups were added, hardly anyone went over there. If people actually liked them or thought them worthwhile, that would have been different, but there's hardly any activity over there at all.

Hell, if anything, get rid of social groups. No one will miss them.
 
Archaic, I also disagree with this.

What's the harm in club threads? A lot of threads have been here for years, and I don't see any reason to ditch them now. And Blackjack is right about the social groups. For one, you can't post pictures or links in Social Group posts. A lot of clubs quite frequently are used for posting art, links, etc.

Honestly, I don't see what the problem with club threads is. Unless you have a good reason for archiving them (and if so, please do share,) there's really no reason to get rid of them.

EDIT: I tried posting a URL. It doesn't work.

However, it DOES at SPPf. Can you at least fix the social groups to allow posting of images/URLs/file upload?
 
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Blackjack Palazzo said:
Hell, if anything, get rid of social groups. No one will miss them.
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...maybe YOU won't miss them, but don't speak for ALL of us here on the forums.

I still don't see a need to kill club threads, especially considering that there are quite a few clubs that have been around for years. The social groups are not really enough like the forums to replace clubs that have been around for ages.
 
As the social groups stand now, they're masked under several layers of the main forum site. If you were somehow able to give them more visibility, then I don't see large problems with this.

However, Archaic, this change was sudden. I don't remember reading anything about this in the development discussion threads and I don't think it was fair to expect such a quick embrace of the social groups function. As Blackjack and Neku have pointed out, some freedoms are stripped when placed into the social groups which has been the bane of most groups from getting off the ground. Visually, the format is awkward. If there were an ability to browse a complete list per category, that may make things look a bit more palatable and approachable.

But like I said, the main problem with the social groups are their lack of visibility to the site. If that can be fixed as well as with the images and urls, then I think this may not be much of an issue. Though, if at all possible I'd much rather keep the Clubs forum where it is. Blackjack has a point, if it's worked well for this long, why remove it now?
 
If we ARE going to move it, then I'd need someone to tell me how. . Just because everyone debating this now, doesn't mean Archaic is going to change his mind.
 
I agree with Blackjack and company. The social groups as they stand are hard to access and post in and spoiler tags are unusable. If the move to them is truly desired, the Social group function will have to be improved a little more. :/

That said. I'd prefer Clubs stay.
 
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Nekusagi said:
Honestly, I don't see what the problem with club threads is. Unless you have a good reason for archiving them (and if so, please do share,) there's really no reason to get rid of them.

EDIT: I tried posting a URL. It doesn't work.

However, it DOES at SPPf. Can you at least fix the social groups to allow posting of images/URLs/file upload?
Click to expand...
I can indeed. It's no secret that it's pretty much standing policy that whenever we have a feature that's both here and on other forums, we go out of our way to give you more ways to use it. ;) Please keep in mind that I didn't have the time to adjust and tweak everything with the social groups yesterday. You'll see quite a few changes to it before it goes live.

As of now at least, you should have access to all those. If anything's not working properly, let me know the exact issue you're having, and I'll find a way to fix it up.

Rayne said:
As the social groups stand now, they're masked under several layers of the main forum site. If you were somehow able to give them more visibility, then I don't see large problems with this.
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The clubs forum on the main forums list would be replaced with a link directly to the main page for social groups.

Chosen of Mana said:
I agree with Blackjack and company. The social groups as they stand are hard to access and post in and spoiler tags are unusable.
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Fixed. Just had to enable some of the BB code to work.

Please be assured everyone that I'm listening to your feedback here. While at this point I do still intend to replace the clubs forum with social groups, I will go out of my way to make sure you have all the same functionality of your forum threads duplicated in your social groups.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, if you feel that the current social groups pages are clunky in the way they're organised, I'd be perfectly willing to post up the templates later and let people look at them, play around with them, and make suggestions for how they can be changed. Note though that when I'm asking for suggestions, I'm asking for actual code here, not for people to just tell me what they want it to look like and hope I can figure it out on my own.
 
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wait, so whats the problem with the clubs?
 
Aren't the staffers supposed to come together and make a decision about this and not Archaic VS. Blackjack & everybody else? :/ Or... maybe you did and you're just bringing it into the public's view...? Either way, I disagree with removing the clubs. ._.; IMO, a forum beats the Social Groups any day of the week, whether they BB codes work or not. I think others will agree.

Though apparently it doesn't matter what WE think, it's what Archaic thinks. >_>
 
If you think the forums work better than social groups for it, you're going to have to give me reasons why and convince me. What is there that you can do here that you won't be able to do in the social groups, taking into consideration what I've already mentioned above?
 
Yes, besides those. Social groups are just as easy to access (they'll have a link to them in the exact same place as where you click to enter the clubs forum now), and as for "already here"...so what? That doesn't make them better. That just says that people are afraid of possible change.
 
I lol'd. You just used both present tense and future tense in one sentence. "Are" and "they'll". So which is it? "Are" they easy to access or "will they" be? >_>

And it's a valid point. They're already here. They function just fine. People like them. Sorry if they clutter up the forum or something. :/ But having the club owners move them into Social Groups just seems... selfish. You can update the BB codes and whatnot but having a bunch of people move their clubs into Social Groups is just... wtf. This makes no sense whatsoever, to me.
 
Archaic, maybe the club members just like things the old fashioned way. You're facing opposition, so isn't that reason enough?

Honestly, I don't see the harm of keeping the club THREADS. Hell, we could even merge them into games and have Fun, Clubs, and Games like we used to.
 
DarkMaster, the link is right at the top of every forum page with the Community link in the navbar. I'll rename that to social groups or clubs if it makes it more obvious, but frankly, they're already easier to get to than scrolling down to click on the clubs link on the front page, or finding it in the drop down list from other pages. Adding that will make it even more easy.

And in all honesty, no, it's not a valid point, opposition isn't reason enough. "It's not broke, doesn't need fixing" is just being lazy. It doesn't need to be broken to be able to be upgraded. Fact of the matter is though, it is broken from a moderation perspective, from a perspective of trying to encourage more activity, and from a perspective of trying to encourage more social groupings beyond the current small cliques. The social group system would also make things a lot easier and streamlined, and it's much nicer from a forum performance and search engine readability perspective as well. The people who run each club would even have their own mod like powers for their social group, making policing a community issue and freeing up staff resources for more important matters.

As far as the threads go, do I really have to repeat that ever social group gets its own mini-forum on its social group page? You'll still have your current threads (though they'll be archived and unpostable if I can't find a way to migrate them to the group), and you'll be able to start as many new threads within each social group as you want.


Now that we've got that out of the way...two things for people to address, so we can actually have some logical discussion here.

1: What is everyone's problem with the idea of migrating to social groups? Just the hassle of having to move over initially? The fact that it was sprung on you suddenly?

2: What do you feel that you'd actually be losing by going to social groups over the existing individual club threads?
 
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Is there a place on here to read how to get into one of the social groups and one that tells where to choose from one?
 
Archaic said:
1: What is everyone's problem with the idea of migrating to social groups? Just the hassle of having to move over initially? The fact that it was sprung on you suddenly?

2: What do you feel that you'd actually be losing by going to social groups over the existing individual club threads?
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1: Both.

2: The fact new members can just stumble across the club threads and join from there. And just the ease of use.

Honestly, practically everyone else is in opposition to this. Why do you keep insisting on pushing it on us, Archaic?
 
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