Observation: Game/Anime vs. Manga

Velveteen

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Pokemon in the game, anime, and manga are all quite different from each other, not only plot-wise and character-wise, but the motives for the Baddies. (When I refer to Baddies I simply mean the people opposed to the goals of the protoganists.)

One major difference between the game/anime and the manga is those Baddies. In the game/anime, we get essentially no insight into the motives and character of the Baddies. Taking Giovanni for an example, he is so minor in the anime that originally even his voice was dubbed and digitally altered. (The rumor goes that they didn't want to waste money on another voice actor for such a small part they just got another person to do it. There is no proof of this.) Perhaps this was to make an air of "vindictive malicious mystery," or maybe it was just an effort to save money. Either way, from the anime alone we get virtually no insight into his character or his motives. And then in the game, what does he do? He provides a convinient plot device for the schemes of Team Rocket. We meet him on an average of two times, both times he uses too many exclamation marks, breaks out into maniacal laughter, and runs away after being defeated.

However, in the manga, we get most of the fog cleared away. He was from the Viridian, he likes his Beedrill because it was caught there, he kicks his balls for a faster reaction time (Well. I mean, POKEballs.), and so on. And he has a son that he only wants to see grow up. The manga clearly gives so much more background for the Baddies than both the anime and the game combined.

Another point is the sympathy and motive factor. Let one examine the role of the Baddies in the game and anime. The Pokemon hunter, J, is a vicious character that seems to only use Pokemon for her own gain. Team Rocket is only out for world domination, power, and money, and their high-ranking members are generally vicious and cruel. The Baddies seem to have all the same motive- power, money, and the such. They are unsympathizable motives too, generally used to make a viewer apathetic or disenchanted by them.

Please contrast this to the manga. Pryce, who opposes the protagonists, is in the end shown to be an old man with an aching heart. His schemes to capture Celebi are actually revealed to be a sentimental effort to be reunited with the two Lapras he lost. This was designed to tug on the heart of the reader- it is sympathizable. It's moving, touching, turning- an old man simply wishing to get over a tragedy from his past.

In conclusion, the manga provides us with a much kindlier view on the Baddies than the game and the anime do. The latter two designed the Baddies to be distant from our emotions and pity, quite the opposite of the manga's intent. So what was the original intent for the characters of Pokemon?
 
Well, the creator always said the manga, one of them, at least, I think its the Special, was more like what he imagined.
 
The games aren't known for their intrecate plot, but atleast they did try to give insight into people's past through the fame checker. There's a lot there, you just have to know where to look.

Riley (DP) for instanse shows his compassion for Pokemon by going into Iron Mountain when it seemed like something wrong was happening. He even shows that he is considerate to others, while talking to him he mentions that he was being offered the job to take over for Byron, but did not immediately jump at that chance since he did remember Byron's son Roark and believed he should take over (although this makes me wonder if he's been living in a cave since Roark is already a gym leader)

[There's also some stuff I got from the games on Mr. Fuji, but am afraid the Anime/Manga may have swayed my opinion]

But aside from that there really isn't much character development, and the game does not really go in depth in the motives of the bad guys, which is why I like it. It leaves more room for your imagination to give them personality.

For Cyrus, I'm actually thinking that something traumatic must have happened in his past for him to act like this. He seems well educated, and is probably a very charismatic speaker to actually manage to convince his grunts to do his bidding. He takes advantage of their weaknesses, and offers them salvation. I do remember one of his grunts mentioning that he was a former member of Team Magma. He probably takes in those outcasted in society and promises them something great, that's the only way I can see them following his cause so greatly. Despite the fact that he does confiscate Pokemon from his grunts, they still follow him. The entire team galactic also seems more like a radical political group then anything, I mean they actually broadcast on Sinnoh's airwaves and has a couple beidlings set up through Sinnoh. I can't wait to see the Manga's take on him. (Also they mention he grew up in Solaceon in the games)

As for your final question, all the teams preceeding Team Rocket may have acted evil, but their motives behind it always seem like they are trying to make the world better. Magma wished to expand the land for the Pokemon, and Aqua wanted to expand the sea for the very same reasons. (resisting a long rant on how these teams, despite their awsome uniforms are possibly the stupidest bunch of peopel I've ever layed eyes on)

Cyrus wanted to destroy this universe because he saw corruption in it and wanted to make a "better world." Now if the Manga creates an awsome back story for Cyrus, there is no doubt that I would sympathize with him.

As for Team Rocket, I doubt the original intent was at all pure. Their organization seems to be all about the money. They kidnap Pokemon, and store them on Five Isle before shipping them off to Celedon Casino. They took over an entire city for a single masterball,which I can only assume was done for the profits they would make selling it (or the fact that they can capture legendary Pokemon with ease). They give hostile take over a whole new meaning.
 
I donno, until he dumped TR in the FR/LG plot, Special-version Giovanni wasn't all that interesting either. I much prefer the sadistic maniac on the show. Just because he has a Beedrill and is from Viridian doesn't mean much of anything. Mewtwo Returns gave him more characterization than pretty much all of Special.

But for manga stories, let's not forget the PokeWake story with him rescuing Persian. That was touching, and presented a different side of him way before the stuff with Silver happened in Special.
 
Blackjack Palazzo said:
Mewtwo Returns gave him more characterization than pretty much all of Special.


I concur. Mewtwo Returns is why I got into Pokemon in the first place.
 
Mewtwo Returns didn't reveal anything about Giovanni.

Except, y'know, he wants Mewtwo.
 
Well, the creator always said the manga, one of them, at least, I think its the Special, was more like what he imagined.

I'm pretty sure Satoshi Tajiri said that before the plot twist.

Also I didn't really get much from Giovani in the Manga either. I mean the small pieces of information you give us on Giovani is hardly any better than the random pieces given to us from the games.

I mean to Giovanni, his gym leadership was not even very important to him in the games, often abandoing his posts for months and months. He only retreated to it when everything else he had was lost, his gym leadership was his safezone. Once he had lost once again, he permanently abandoned his post and disbanded team rocket to train. It seems as if his true motive here is power, and after being repeatedly beaten by the proteagnmoist, he realises what he has done does not give him the power he desires.

Also the fact that Giovanni is probably on Kanto's most wanted, and yet is an official gym leader tells me that he probably has friends in high places, or atleast under cover Team Rocket members working for him in the Pokemon League. He did have undercover agents in Silp Co, so why not the Pokemon League? After all, in Saffron, one of the NPCs said that he wished that the Elite Four would show up to stop Giovanni, yet none did, not even the resident gym leader. Whether Sabrina is actually allied to Giovanni, or has recieved orders from the Pokemon League not to act, we would never know (or perhaps her Foresight had shown her that a hero would triumph over this evil so she would not have to act at all).

This is a complete contrast to that of the re-grouped Team Rocket in Johto. Once they began messing around with the radio system to force POkemon to evolve, who shows up to investigate? None other than Lance, the current League Champion and former Elite Four member. I'm pretty sure Magikarps randomly evolving is much less obvious than an entire city going under siege, and actually having all entrances shut off. If I recall, this was happening even when the protagonist was in Vermillion. So why is it that Lance now investigates? Perhaps the higher up in the league that I mentoned might be working for Giovani was completely unaware of this reformation, or perhaps they were merely being blackmailed by Giovanni and see no reason to help Team Rocket now that he is out of the picture.

Giovanni himself was probably very well respected since the entire purpose of the new Team Rocket was to find their leader. No one person truely took charge, there was a division of power between all the Rocket Executives. None of them claimed to be the new leader of Team Rocket, instead they searched for Giovanni, their true leader. Unlike the members of Team Galactic who seem like gullible fools, even the higher ups, these people knew what they were doing, and chose to reform to find their former leader.

The game also mentions he has a red haired son, which is most likely to be Silver. His son obviously disagrees with the actions of team rocket and is seen trying to disband them many times in the game. Like his father, he has a strong desire for power, but like his father, his methods on gaining this power is also questionable.

Does his desire to disband Team Rocket automatically mean that he hates his father? No, he was trying to disband the reformed team rocket. perhaps he understands his father's wishes to no longer be affiliated with a criminal organization, and takes it upon himself to stop Team Rocket from dragging his father back into this life of crime.

Silver also seems to be a loner, relying on his own powers and no one else. He even regards the members of Team Rocket as weak, perhaps because they need each other to be powerful, and alone, they are just like anyone else. His self dependance is even emulated through his Pokemon. He does not trust them, and his Golbat did not evolve until later in Mt. Moon when Silver admits to changing his ways. If Giovanni was his father, then he would have been too busy to spend much time with him, which caused this independant personality in Silver.

Now that only holds if Silver is his son, but the moral of the story is, you have to read between the lines, rather than just the text they shove down your throat.
 
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King K. Rool said:
Mewtwo Returns didn't reveal anything about Giovanni.

Except, y'know, he wants Mewtwo.

I disagree. We learned little about his backstory from it, but we learned a lot about his personality.
 
Another thing to remember is that Silver possibly being Gio's kid is a fairly recent development. In one of the mangas, Golden Boys, Black (same guy basically) hates Team Rocket, but not because of any family relation; he hates them because he used to be a member, but quit when he realized how weak they were.

And yes, Tajiri said that Special was the closest to what he was picturing, but he also said that when Special was first released. I haven't heard anything about his views on it or any mangas since. He also said "closest", not that it was perfect, something a lot of fans seem to forget.

Also, the show doesn't really develop much of anyone's backstories. What do we really know about Ash before the show started? He used to slide down grassy mountains on a board, he likes stupid movies, and he either knew Gary for years or only met him shortly before becoming a trainer.
 
Manga... Manga... Which manga?!

There are many Pokemon mangas with Team Rocket and other villains.

This habit of fans really makes me mad.

I agree that in Special, they put more thought to the villains. But the Akagi in DP is also pretty different. Because he seems to have good intention about all that "recreating the world" thing. And sadly, I'm entirely sure that they'll turn him into another shallow freak that wants to take over the world for no reason...
 
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He even shows that he is considerate to others, while talking to him he mentions that he was being offered the job to take over for Byron, but did not immediately jump at that chance since he did remember Byron's son Roark and believed he should take over (although this makes me wonder if he's been living in a cave since Roark is already a gym leader)

Riley said they offered him the job to become a new Gym Leader, not replace Byron.
 
Riley said they offered him the job to become a new Gym Leader, not replace Byron.

It was Byron who offered him the job though. So possibly it was the Gym Leadership of Oreburgh, but it still doesn't change the fact that he was still considerate enough to think of Byron's son before accepting the job.
 
Green Cherrim said:
Well, the creator always said the manga, one of them, at least, I think its the Special, was more like what he imagined.

Why do people keep bringing up a decade-old quote and still trot it around as if it's current?
 
good point Dogasu!
that quote only seems true for the first few manga, as for vol. 4 and up its starts twisting ya know?
Personally I like the Manga Pokemon Special the best, then comes the main series games, then the rest of the manga series, then in very last is the anime....
 
because quotes can age, and bulbapeida didn't cite the year.

It still doesn't change the fact that, at the time Tajiri had said that, Special's plot was not at all as wild as it is now. Do you really think he intended Pryce to reband team rocket in order to capture celebi to save his two laprases, which in my opinion si pretty seflish of him. He would risk destroying the present day world just so he can lift his guilty conscience.
 
It still doesn't change the fact that, at the time Tajiri had said that, Special's plot was not at all as wild as it is now. Do you really think he intended Pryce to reband team rocket in order to capture celebi to save his two laprases, which in my opinion si pretty seflish of him. He would risk destroying the present day world just so he can lift his guilty conscience.
is that the "plot twist" refered to a few post back? well, i don't know, but we have no data on whether or not he still thinks that, so i was merely quoting what he once said. anyway, the discussion is about how the manga syndicates were more developed than the game/anime ones.
 
is that the "plot twist" refered to a few post back? well, i don't know, but we have no data on whether or not he still thinks that, so i was merely quoting what he once said. anyway, the discussion is about how the manga syndicates were more developed than the game/anime ones.

if you're refering to the plot twist I brought up, no it isn't, I was refering to, in vol. 4, howRed was kidnapped or something and his pikcahu comes back to Dr. Ookido's lab and then yellow comes in and has the power of something she gained by being born in the viridian forest....

but yeah Neo Rocket was another plot twist as well ( I liked it)
Pokemon special is full of twists thats what makes it interesting!
 
is that the "plot twist" refered to a few post back? well, i don't know, but we have no data on whether or not he still thinks that, so i was merely quoting what he once said. anyway, the discussion is about how the manga syndicates were more developed than the game/anime ones.

We can't quote someone on something they said about a subject early on in it's development and expect it to apply years later. I could go into extremes on this, but I'll just use a Pokemon example and mention how a good competitive battler once regarded Draco Meteor as a cool, but enevitably useless move on Salamence early on in DP's metagame. (I doubt I need to explain the comparison)
 
Please note: The thread is from 18 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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