Karpi
The Darkest Magikarp
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2010
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It is no secret that there is substantial grumbling in the Pokemon Showdown community regarding the ban of Baton Pass in all tiers including Ubers. The controversy centers on a handful of pokemon that have low usage but are suggested to be overpowered enough to destabilize higher tiers with stat boosts from Baton Pass.
These are the most relevant:
While Necrozma may have failed to make an impact in OU, UU, and RU, and is a mediocre pokemon in NU, it is claimed - with replay evidence - that it has the ability to defeat entire OU teams with mindless play using boosts gained from Baton Pass.
Though a Necrozma team relies on several Baton Pass pokemon including Espeon, Scolipede is the most notable face of the team as the enabling factor that allows Baton Pass to dominate the tier.
The same appears to apply with Krookodile in Ubers. It finds itself in a middling position in UU after falling from OU, yet after being Baton Passed Extreme Evoboost, it becomes capable of defeating entire Ubers teams. It is important to note that this is only possible with Eevee, and other Baton Pass pokemon from lower tiers such as Espeon also make an appearance.
The core question here is why pokemon that appear to have no usage become capable of destabilizing entire tiers in competitive battling, and the answer is simple: Ubers is not a usage-based tier, and this pushes overpowered Baton Pass pokemon into tiers lower than what they belong in.
Much like Spore allowing low-BST pokemon like Breloom to compete in higher tiers, Baton Pass allows otherwise bad pokemon to excel. It is not that Smogon does not recognize this fact - their failing is in their fight for an OU tier based on an arbitrary idea.
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Under a scenario in which all pokemon were unbanned and then a new OU tier was formed based on the pokemon that did not gain enough usage in Ubers, we would see a very different scenario:
1. Pokemon such as Eevee would be banned to Anything Goes.
2. Ubers would be left with core Baton Pass pokemon such as Scolipede and Espeon.
3. The new OU would be left with "lesser" Baton pass pokemon such as Gorebyss or Mr. Mime.
The problem was never that Baton Pass itself was a broken strategy. The problem was that the opaque and arbitrary distinction between Ubers and OU forced Ubers-level Baton Passers into the OU tier, where they unsurprisingly dominated.
If - after the ban of Eevee - Baton Pass teams based on Scolipede and Espeon continued to be viable and highly used (yet balanced) in Ubers, then that is the tier they belong in.
To push them into OU or lower tiers is the equivalent of banning Lava Plume because Primal Groudon became overpowered in OU when it should not have been there in the first place. The only reason that this currently happens is because Ubers is not a usage-based tier.
---
I hope to hear the opinions of other people on this topic. Though the overlap between Pokemon Showdown players and Bulbagarden Forum posters is not as great as Smogon Forums, I feel confident posting here that the post will not get removed and will instead allow discussion to happen.
These are the most relevant:
While Necrozma may have failed to make an impact in OU, UU, and RU, and is a mediocre pokemon in NU, it is claimed - with replay evidence - that it has the ability to defeat entire OU teams with mindless play using boosts gained from Baton Pass.
Though a Necrozma team relies on several Baton Pass pokemon including Espeon, Scolipede is the most notable face of the team as the enabling factor that allows Baton Pass to dominate the tier.
The same appears to apply with Krookodile in Ubers. It finds itself in a middling position in UU after falling from OU, yet after being Baton Passed Extreme Evoboost, it becomes capable of defeating entire Ubers teams. It is important to note that this is only possible with Eevee, and other Baton Pass pokemon from lower tiers such as Espeon also make an appearance.
The core question here is why pokemon that appear to have no usage become capable of destabilizing entire tiers in competitive battling, and the answer is simple: Ubers is not a usage-based tier, and this pushes overpowered Baton Pass pokemon into tiers lower than what they belong in.
Much like Spore allowing low-BST pokemon like Breloom to compete in higher tiers, Baton Pass allows otherwise bad pokemon to excel. It is not that Smogon does not recognize this fact - their failing is in their fight for an OU tier based on an arbitrary idea.
---
Under a scenario in which all pokemon were unbanned and then a new OU tier was formed based on the pokemon that did not gain enough usage in Ubers, we would see a very different scenario:
1. Pokemon such as Eevee would be banned to Anything Goes.
2. Ubers would be left with core Baton Pass pokemon such as Scolipede and Espeon.
3. The new OU would be left with "lesser" Baton pass pokemon such as Gorebyss or Mr. Mime.
The problem was never that Baton Pass itself was a broken strategy. The problem was that the opaque and arbitrary distinction between Ubers and OU forced Ubers-level Baton Passers into the OU tier, where they unsurprisingly dominated.
If - after the ban of Eevee - Baton Pass teams based on Scolipede and Espeon continued to be viable and highly used (yet balanced) in Ubers, then that is the tier they belong in.
To push them into OU or lower tiers is the equivalent of banning Lava Plume because Primal Groudon became overpowered in OU when it should not have been there in the first place. The only reason that this currently happens is because Ubers is not a usage-based tier.
---
I hope to hear the opinions of other people on this topic. Though the overlap between Pokemon Showdown players and Bulbagarden Forum posters is not as great as Smogon Forums, I feel confident posting here that the post will not get removed and will instead allow discussion to happen.