Ongoing Story - Malaysian Plane Crash in Ukraine

[Lyrebird]

Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine - CNN.com

Note - Until more information comes into play, do not place blame on any country or politicians. At the present moment the focus is on reliable information as it comes into hand.

Plane was going from Amsterdam to KL with 295 passengers on board.

It is stated that so far it is a crash however with Reuters and AP stating that the plane had been 'shot down'.

 

[Big Lutz]

Some updates from CNN, the U.S. now believes that the plane was shot down, and that Ukraine does not have the capability to shoot down a plane like that.

U.S. official: Missile hit Malaysia Airlines plane - CNN.com

It really leaves only one other actor in the region which does connect with some of the released conversations allegedly between rebels that Ukraine has released.

Fighter: Regarding that plane downed in the area of Snezhny-Torez.

Mykola Kozitsin: Yes.

Fighter: It turned out to be a passenger flight. It fell in the area of Grabovo, there is a sea of corpses of women and children. Now the Cossacks are looking at all this.

Fighter: They're broadcasting on TV that this is apparently an AN-26, a Ukrainian, a transport plane, but "Malaysian Airlines" is written on it. What was it doing on the territory of Ukraine?

M. Kozitsin: That means they were bringing in spies, I don't know. You see.

Fighter: Yes, sir.

M. Kozitsin: What the f**k were they flying in here for, there's a war on.

Fighter: I understand.

Ukraine Liveblog Day 150: Malaysian Passenger Jet Shot Down Over Ukraine | The Interpreter

There is also talk and video of a Buk missile system, in the area where the plane was shot which is rebel controlled territory.

 

[Kadabra]

It would be incorrect to say that Ukraine could not shoot down the plane. That said, they probably haven't:

At this time, the most probable scenario is that the separatists have shot down the plane by mistake with a Buk air defence system they stole from the Ukraine military. One of the separatist leaders tweeted about obtaining the system earlier, with said tweet now having been deleted.

Given that the separatists don't have access to IFF systems, nor the training, this scenario is plausible. Unlike the separatists, Putin did not accuse the Ukraine government of shooting it down. He did, however, accuse them of creating a violent situation where this kind of mess could happen.

 

[Big Lutz]

Couple of things to note this afternoon, first the Washington Post has video that allegedly shows a Russian Buk Missile System heading straight back to Russia... minus one missile.

A short video posted to YouTube by the Ukrainian government reportedly shows a “Buk,” or SA-11 “Gadfly,” surface-to-air missile system en route from eastern Ukraine to the Russian border on Friday.

While the video cannot be independently verified, the footage appears to show the system with at least one of its missiles missing. It also appears to be mounted on a tracked chassis, although it has been loaded onto a flatbed trailer. Tracked vehicles are decidedly slower than their wheeled counterparts. The use of the truck could indicate the system’s own propulsion system is disabled, or that speed is a priority for whomever is moving it.

New video allegedly shows ‘Buk’ missile system en route to Russia - The Washington Post

Meanwhile the Ukraine Government published their version of the timeline showing that the Buk Missile System "With a Team" was handed off to the Russian Separatists from Russia itself.

July 17, 1 a.m. SBU's counter-intelligence department receives information that Russian Federation passed a Buk, complete with a team, to the terrorist groups in Ukraine. It was transferred over the border close to the town of Sukhodolsk at 1 a.m.

July 17, 9:00 a.m. Buk was moved to Donetsk, and later to Pervomaisk. The information comes from another tapped conversation released by the SBU where two terrorists, identified as “Khmuryi” (Sergei Nikolayevich Petrovskiy, officer of Main Intelligence Department of the Main Headquarters of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation) and “Buryat” (an unidentified fighter of Donetsk People's Republic) discuss what to do with the missile launch system. Buryat says he brought one system, and it needs to be hidden. But Khmurui says it will traveling [sic] along with tanks of Vostok battalion, and directs the Buk to Pervomaisk.

July 18, 4:50 a.m. -- Interior Ministry's intelligence unit recorded a crawler tractor carrying a missile system moving towards the border of the Russian Federation. The video clearly shows missiles, but the middle one of three is missing.

“We're analyzing this and other collected information. We think this is the very Buk system which shot at the civilian plane flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur,” Avakov said. He said that the terrorists were “trying to hide evidence of the terrible crime.”

Avakov: 'Irrefutable evidence' shows that Kremlin-backed separatists shot down Malaysian plane

If there were Russians on the team that shot down the plane, then that changes this quite a bit.

 

[Solayoh]

I see Lyrebird has said we're not allowed to cast blame on any country or individual, but unless your watching Al Jazeera it is extremely obvious who is to blame.

My thoughts are with the families of the victims in this terrible time, no matter which side of the conflict you are on, we can all agree that the people involved were innocent civilians caught in the crossfire.

I just hope the international community, Obama included, does something a little stronger than wag their finger and tut a few times.

 

[lavachickens]

I see Lyrebird has said we're not allowed to cast blame on any country or individual, but unless your watching Al Jazeera it is extremely obvious who is to blame.

Well it's only fair. Things would get heated quickly because people would have different thoughts on who to blame for the entire incident as well as there being no concrete proof of what actually happened to MH17.

 

[Lyrebird]

Also naturally without more evidence as it stands, both parties are going to blame each other as per this