Orange Island saga discussion

[Cybersai]

I've noticed that when people talk about older sagas, the Orange Islands are sometimes overlooked. Its a shame, I think, because I thought this mini-arc was quite good and still retained some of that "Kanto magic" that unfortunately gets lost during the Johto era.

Ash finally got Charizard to obey him this saga, he captures Snorlax and Lapras, Tauros gets used in battle for the first time, and Bulbasaur and Squirtle become the strong Pokemon we know in the later seasons.

I rather liked how the Gyms this saga were unique. Instead of all battles, Ash had to race a Gym leader to get a badge, or shoot down cans, or participate in the shows first double battle. Ash also wins his first tournament this saga with his first 6 on 6 battle.

Then we get to Tracey, who, let's face it, opinion on was very mixed at the time of his debut. Brock was in the prime of his personality at the time so most people didn't want to see him replaced. I personally didn't mind Tracey, although I can see why others wouldn't like him.

What are your thoughts on the Orange Islands?

 

[Mooites]

I liked the variety of Gym battles, like you mentioned. Other than that, it just seemed like a big stetch of fillers.

Regarding Tracey, I dont mind him either. I wasnt crazy for him though, since these were Brocks best days (before 3/4 of the fanbase got sick of him) so thats where the Tracey grief comes from. A good thing about Tracey though is that he showcased a Gen II Pokemon. Im actually suprised they gave Ash a Snorlax instead of some Gen II thing. Early Phanphy?

 

[Nekusagi]

I hated it at first, but revisited it when I bought the DVDs and found it enjoyable. Some of the writing that season is REALLY good, and yeah, it was filleriffic, but anime doesn't have to have a plot to be entertaining.

 

[ShadowDeeps]

I feel the Orange Island Arc is good. I don't laud it as much as I do the Kanto episodes and I find the Johto episodes better in some ways but I'm glad that the Orange Island episodes did not fall into the predictable and drab like most of Johto. The Orange Islands are about the last of the immature and impulsive Ash we see as he begins to mature tremendously in Johto, and I liked how the Prima episode worked with that facet of Ash. Having Charizard obey Ash and Ash going to the lengths that he did to make that so was great as well. I also liked Drake's Dragonite. At the height of it, it was good... at the very least it wasn't a point where character personas were flogged like they are later on (*cough* Misty and Brock *cough*). Togepi's further developments were also intriguing, though I do feel Togepi sort of toned down Misty's character... to an extent. But that topic starter is another thread of discussion.

As for Tracey, I like him more than I like Brock now. He (Tracey) may be dulled in character but as Scott85 said in another post Tracey is a good example of how nice guys finish last (as the Pokémon Chronicles episode "A Date With Delcatty" goes to show). I don't quite think Tracey had the chance to get as much limelight as he could have, or to grow into his character to the degree that he could. But he was not forced into the background like certain others were later on. Oh, and I love Pokémon 2000: The Power Of One. Movie 2 is easily my favorite Pokémon movie.

In summation: I like the Orange Island season. If I had to rank it amongst my favorites it'd probably be in 3rd place.

 

[Pokemaster Justin]

Orange Island Adventures were a nice follow up to the Indigo series. It was refreshing, fun, and had some of the last good quality of the series.

Although this is where the series started to use the CoTD, and essentially becoming really boring - they really didn't nail that formula down until Johto.

Although I do think taht Pokemon the Movie 2000 sucked hard compared to Mewtwo strikes back

 

[Adamant]

Im actually suprised they gave Ash a Snorlax instead of some Gen II thing. Early Phanphy?

The big question is why they gave Kasumi a Nyoromo. Sure, it was one of the few Gen I pokemon not to have been showcased yet (Nyorozo didn't get an episode until mid-Johto when Kasumi's Nyoromo evolved), but with only a month left before Johto, and a "league" right around the corner, you'd wonder what the point was. I mean, did that thing even make another pre-Johto appearance following it's capture?
In Johto it made so few appearances and did so little of interest I frequently forgot she owned it in the first place, so what was the point of it? Did she drag it around for over a hundred episodes just so she could get a Nyorotono near the end of Johto?

 

[Snake Bandage]

Dude, what's there to discuss? It's a bunch of way awesome fillers. With Meowth Rules in the middle, which is about the best episode ever.

Okay, I exaggerate. But I do love Meowth Rules.

 

[Cybersai]

In Johto it made so few appearances and did so little of interest I frequently forgot she owned it in the first place, so what was the point of it? Did she drag it around for over a hundred episodes just so she could get a Nyorotono near the end of Johto?

Poliwhirl did get a lot of screentime later on though. Poliwhirl was Misty's main battler in Johto.

 

[Adamant]

It was? Eh, haven't watched those episodes in ages, but it made like 3 appearances total before it evolved., and most of them was just "water gun Team Rocket off".

 

[JB88]

Orange answered questions from Kanto, Tracey and Brock aside. I definitely liked the episodes with Rudy, and the one with Charizard finally obeying Ash made me shout "Thank God!" back then.

 

[Cybersai]

It was? Eh, haven't watched those episodes in ages, but it made like 3 appearances total before it evolved., and most of them was just "water gun Team Rocket off".

Yeah, but its the same with Brock's Pokemon. Zubat was captured and did absolutely nothing for its entire run. Vulpix hardly got any spotlight either.

Tracey captured a Scyther which only got 4 episodes of screentime before he left. Venonat barely appeared either.

The writers had absolutely no clue how to handle Misty/Brock/Tracey's Pokemon back then. Its like if you're not a coordinator, your Pokemon are doomed to hardly appear.

 

[Kasumi]

I *love* the Orange Islands season. It was full of interesting and funny episodes. In fact, it's my favourite season of all.

And maybe Kenji wasn't as funny as Takeshi was back then, but I like him a lot because he's an artist to some extent. ;P

 

[PDL]

The orange islands episodes were unique in that it was the only arc where the anime was able to go off on a tangent and didn't need to follow a game's plot.

They could have expanded on it, but I get the feeling that it was just a "gap" between the indigo episodes (which ended prematurely since the anime was only going to last 52 episodes) and the Jotho games (which were probably still in development at the time.)

 

[Cybersai]

I think Orange was the perfect length. It was only 36 eps long, and for 4 Gyms and a 2-part league, it was perfectly fine.

If Orange went on longer people probably would have gotten sick of it, but since it was so short it was the perfect bridge from Kanto to Johto.

Its Johto that needed to be a lot shorter.

 

[Rocketshipper]

The Orange saga was AWESOME!!! It was my favorite arc up until DP. I loved how it was all completely original material, not based on any of the games, and it had some of my all time favorite episodes in it, like Pikachu Revolts, Meowth Rules, Misty Meets Her Match, and the two part league match. And I also like Tracey way more than Brock, and it had lots of Pokeshipping ^^.

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

As for Tracey, I like him more than I like Brock now.

If Tracey lasted so long with so little character development or significant position in the grand plot, you'd hate him even more. Brock at least had his prime. Tracey suffered from flat line throughout his entire time in Ash's party.
----

I wasn't a fan of Orange Island. The biggest thing for me, I'll easily admit, was the removal of Takeshi/Brock. I remember as a kid, I hated this, because somehow Brock became my favorite Kanto character quickly after his introduction. So yeah, I'll be honest, that had a huge impact on my outlook towards the series, and it didn't really help that Tracey was incredibly boring. The whole "artist" thing...?

Apart from that, I mean, it had it's ups and downs.

The unique badge gathering in this league was an interesting twist. With that being said, the challenges themselves were a love/hate kind of thing for me. In some ways I thought it was awesome that both Ash and his Pokemon had to prove themselves through the various styles of challenges. And yet at the same time, I had to question, at least of the first two gyms, what that really meant for a trainer's progression? I couldn't help but, I guess, feel that the Orange Island league was rather "weak" to an extent...at least compared to Indigo.

The absence of Gary, or any rival for that matter, was a bit awkward for me. As it didn't really push Ash's trial very much, if that makes sense. It almost seemed to me like Orange Island was overlooked by a lot of trainers. As there seemed to be no "great competition" around there save for a few like Hide/Tad, who didn't really amount to much.

A lot of the filler episodes bothered me too. One that comes to mind as a prime example of bad was the Pink Pokemon episode. It was just really meaningless, but it had a few diamonds in the rough (Nidoran's Love Story was awesome).

Obvious positives from the league were the obedience of Charizard, and the appearance of Lorelei.

I also thought the final battle against Yuji was great. Definitely one to watch. My only complaint with that was how the actual "League championships" were put together. It didn't really say what happened with Hide or anyone else who competed in the Island games, and because of that it emphasized the feelings I had about it being a weaker playing field.

I have a lot of mixed feelings about Orange Islands, as my post shows. I guess all in all, my biggest complaint was that it was fairly dull. It had great moments, but it was rather mundane throughout. I think it was a smart decision of the writer's to keep it as short as it was, because that helped it.

May any possible flaming commence.

 

[Snake Bandage]

If Tracey lasted so long with so little character development or significant position in the grand plot, you'd hate him even more. Brock at least had his prime. Tracey suffered from flat line throughout his entire time in Ash's party.

And then he got a personality in Hoso and was fun there.

 

[Cybersai]

The problem is a lot of people never watched the specials for some reason. I think its because they came out in the dub so damn late, in Japan the specials aired while Hoenn was airing, but for the dub I remember we didn't get them until right before the DP series.

I thought Tracey was more interesting when he was interacting with Misty and Daisy at least. Once he finally got out of that "second Brock" status he had on the main show, his character seemed to improve.

 

[MetaRobo]

I also thought the final battle against Yuji was great. Definitely one to watch. My only complaint with that was how the actual "League championships" were put together. It didn't really say what happened with Hide or anyone else who competed in the Island games, and because of that it emphasized the feelings I had about it being a weaker playing field.

Yes, the League Tournament battle was epic. It's interesting that this is one of the rare times Ash actually uses a full roster of six in a battle (but that's understandable due to time restraints). And he actually wins!

 

[Lil Brother]

I'm with the "OI rocked" party. It was fun because it was so unique; the ocean theme really sets it apart and it would be cool if we could have something like that again (I really want the twerps to stay in one location for the length of a short OIesque arc, for instance).

The different Gym battles were cool. We had the introduction fo double battles, and Danny's and Rudy's were fun to watch. The "shoot down stuff" portion of Cissy's Gym was stupid, although her Gym actually resembling a soda can was just too strange and dumb not to laugh at. XD Maybe it's odd that Ash could ace all these specific challanges and do better than their creators without any preparation, but it wouldn't be that great to have to watch Ash go through those twice. In any case, it all led up to the first six-on-six battle of the anime, which is still to this day one of the most entertaining battles of all.

Character development was rather good, with focus on Ash's Pokémon to an AG/DP level and Ash's and Misty's up-and-down relationship being on full display. And I don't mean just in a romantic sense. With the two of them being the only two of original twerp trio around, their interactions seemed that much more fun to watch.

Not that I don't love Tracey. He may be the least entertaining of all the twerps, but I guess that soft-spokeness and quiet admiration for pretty girls are what set him apart and make him special. XD It's a pity his Pokémon didn't receive more focus, though, especially Venonat.

And yeah, good filler. I love Bye Bye Psyduck and Meowth Rules (which is so bizzare and features one of the first backwards cults of the series, which are always disturbing and fun).