Orangeshipping VS Pokeshipping in Hoso

[Cybersai]

Very well written, I agree with all except the last part.

Being a Water Pokemon Gym leader is Misty's dream. She wants to become a great Water Pokemon Master, and by becoming a great Water Pokemon Gym leader that's exactly how she'll achieve it.

And as far as I know, Misty realizes her responsibilities and her goal is the Gym, which makes traveling with Ash again nearly impossible. There's also a question "if" she wants to travel with Ash again, as Daisy already told Misty she could leave the Gym and travel again but Misty refused. If Misty refused to travel again even after Daisy said it was OK to, then why would she give up possession of the Gym afterward?

There's also a clear Pokeshipping bias in your post, (no mention of Misty's crush on Ash possibly fading which seems to be the case in AG), and you didn't reference Orangeshipping at all which is quite blatant in the Hosos. (The connection between Tracey's Marril and her Azurill, the fact that Tracey spends time with her cleaning up her Gym, Sakura and Casey accussing Tracey and Misty of being a couple, Misty blushing over Tracey, Daisy imagining Misty/Tracey in a romantic play together, and having adventures with her, etc.).

Besides the bias Pokeshipping stuff ( ), the rest is fine.

 

[Kasumi]

Eeer, what? Since when Misty has blushed over Tracey? If you are talking about her blushing in the latest Oak's lab episode, that was to Team Rocket complimenting her Azurill.

 

[FabuVinny]

Actually, HandymanShipping is much more blatent. Denying being a couple, that Tracey actually spends time with Daisy while Misty is out, blushing over "somebody else", and Daisy's imagination (which Tracey and Misty wouldn't do) does not make a ship blatent. And Oak has been experimenting with the Cerulean Gym Pokémon for months. The Azurill is probably another result of that.

Maybe I am biased, but it is still the closest to canon at the moment.

As for being a Water Pokémon Master, being the Gym Leader does help that, certainly. But there are other ways it can be done. If she trusted Daisy with the badges, then I'm sure she would travel more.

 

[Kasumi]

FabuVinny's right. She doesn't leave the Gym because she doesn't trust at all her sister because they're very irresponsible despite being older than her. That doesn't mean she doesn't enjoy being a Gym Leader either, but it explains a lot why she doesn't leave the place so often.

 

[FabuVinny]

Well she's away for two minutes and Daisy gives a badge to that kid in "Judgement Day"! She needs a stronger lock.

 

[Cybersai]

Eeer, what? Since when Misty has blushed over Tracey? If you are talking about her blushing in the latest Oak's lab episode, that was to Team Rocket complimenting her Azurill.

When Casey asks Misty if Tracey is her boyfriend, Misty blushes and quietly pushes Casey aside.

Handymanshipping only has one episode going for it (and the line about Daisy going for dinner with Tracey was DUB added), otherwise the writers have put something between Misty and Tracey since their first Hoso together. It seems mighty strange to me that in two Hosos in a row they had Sakura/Casey ask Misty and Tracey if they were a couple, then Daisy imagining Misty/Tracey romantically playing the prince and mermaid together. The animators even put a lot of effort into that daydream. Then finally, Tracey gives Misty the child of his Marill, which was probably the best thing he could have done to swoon her over.

There's also Tracey giving Misty an Azurill, which connects the two in a parental sense. Secondly, Pokeshipping has never had any moments since AG started. Orangeshipping has been MUCH stronger in AG than Pokeshipping, as the latter has been pretty much nonexistant in the entirety of AG.

Which makes me believe that the writers are going with Orangeshipping since the Hosos started, as part of Misty's maturing is getting over her crush and realizing that she can't tag along with Ash forever.

 

[FabuVinny]

You should really watch the Luvdisc episode some time.

 

[Kasumi]

When Casey asks Misty if Tracey is her boyfriend, Misty blushes and quietly pushes Casey aside.

Where did you see that? The only time she blushed was when that guy in the Casey episode asked her out, she refused and he asked her if she liked someone else. Misty didn't say anything and Casey said: There is, isn't it? Then Psyduck appeared smirking, Misty got angry at it and that was all.

Tracey wasn't mentioned at all. Also, since when giving a pokémon to a friend is a hint of shippyness. Then Ash giving Casey the Beedrill he captured on the bug contest means he has a crush on our favourite Electabuzz fan? I don't think so.

 

[Cybersai]

^ Um, I'm not talking about the Psyduck scene.

I'm talking about this one:

Casey asks Misty if Tracey is her boyfriend and Misty blushes and pushes Casey aside.

As for the Azurill thing it's not particularly shippy but it's the writers way of connecting them in a parental sense. It was also a nice gesture on Tracey's part to let Misty take care of the child of his Marril.

Finally we can't forget Daisy's daydream. One must wonder, if Daisy wants Tracey to herself, why in the world would she imagine a romantic play between Tracey and her sister? I honestly don't know why people are thinking that Daisy likes Tracey.

^ Sure the above pics are a daydream and isn't real, but the writers really blatantly conveyed Orangeshipping to the audience. Pokeshippers would have LOVED to see Ash and Misty like the bottom pic (even if it's a daydream and not real), but the writers did it for Tracey/Misty to show the audience.

Pokeshippers may want to turn a blind eye to Orangeshipping and pretend it doesn't exist, but fact is Orangeshipping has been much stronger in AG than Pokeshipping. And it seems to be the writers showing Misty maturing, as she is moving on realizing that Ash isn't the only guy out there.

Bottom line, you can't write an article about Misty's character development and ignore the possibility of Misty's crush on Ash possibly fading since she stayed at the Gym (which appears to be the case with the zero shipping hints when Ash/Misty met each other again) and all the Tracey stuff (he's at her Gym a LOT, the number of times Casey and Sakura accussed them of being a couple, the romantic daydream that Daisy imagined that conveyed Orangeshipping blatantly to the audience, and how close Tracey and Misty are getting together with their Marril/Azuril connection, and the fact that they're good friends who live in towns relatively close to one another.

Orangeshipping at this point has a much better chance of becoming canon since Misty's been permanantly written off the show. The writers realize that writing a romance between their main character and a written off one makes no sense, as Misty only appears once every 100 episodes or so. They're pushing Tracey/Misty together because they're both former main characters, and the writers have no plans to bring either back to the main cast. It's more of a convenience ship that anything else.

Fact is, I don't even like Orangeshipping either. I dislike it quite a bit actually. But I can't deny what happens in the episodes, and Orangeshipping seems to be the main Misty ship in AG.

 

[FabuVinny]

That's a blush?

Does Oak love Tracey? Do ApprenticeShippers think Tracey loves Oak. HandymanShipping is AprrenticeShipping with Daisy in place of Oak, except Tracey actually has a chance. (And I thought that date was in the original.

Misty does know that there are other guys out there. She was very interested in Georgio for a moment. But you are turning a blind eye to the fact that there is as much OrangeShipping as PokéShipping in AG. I already explained that they didn't get much time together, except the picnic scene at the beginning of the Mt. Moon episode where she chose to sit next to Ash.

Tracey is at the Gym for two reasons: Oak or Daisy. Would you like to hear why he went?

"Professor Oak wanted me to come by to see if you needed help with any of the Pokémon."
"Professor Oak asked me to bring you a new batch of that Pokémon food."
"Daisy invited me"

Honestly! I'm glad I don't have to rely on a figment of Daisy's imagination to make my point! She is sterotyped to like that kind of thing! It is interesting that she sees Tracey as the handsome prince, though. Mainly, it is because she likes to use him since he will do anything for her.

 

[Cybersai]

That's a blush?

Yes it is. It's not a huge one, but it's visible.

But you are turning a blind eye to the fact that there is as much OrangeShipping as PokéShipping in AG. I already explained that they didn't get much time together, except the picnic scene at the beginning of the Mt. Moon episode where she chose to sit next to Ash.

I fail to see how sitting next to Ash automatically means it's a hint. Misty is still Ash's friend first and foremost. So we're saying people who sit next to each other are hints now? Please, this goes to show how limited Pokeshipping is in AG. There's virtually nothing shippy between them anymore, which is why Pokeshippers look at stuff like seating arrangements to prove that Misty still likes him.

Honestly! I'm glad I don't have to rely on a figment of Daisy's imagination to make my point! She is sterotyped to like that kind of thing! It is interesting that she sees Tracey as the handsome prince, though. Mainly, it is because she likes to use him since he will do anything for her.

Yet we don't have people accusing Daisy and Tracey of being a couple.

Writers do these things for a reason. They've had BOTH Sakura and Casey accuse Tracey and Misty of being a couple in the 2nd and 3rd Misty Hoso respectively. They had Daisy imagine a romantic play between them in the 4th Misty Hoso. And finally, the 3 episodes where Misty returned after Hoenn showed nothing besides friendship from Misty to Ash. And of course that's where the writers had Misty hanging around with Tracey more due to the Azurill/Marill thing.

I'm not saying Pokeshipping never existed, just that it doesn't exist in AG. Seating arrangements are not a hint. Misty watching Ash's Hoenn league matches are not a hint. Misty meeting Ash after he returned from Hoenn is not a hint. This is all friendship. And if you say the above stuff is are hints, it just shows how weak the state of Pokeshipping is in AG. Misty is still Ash's friend, and she's going to want to see him again before he goes off on another adventure.It's perfectly reasonable to assume that the time Misty spent away from Ash has gotten her crush on him to fade.

The writers are maturing her and having her move on. Having constant Misty/Tracey moments in the Hosos and in that one Pallet town episode show the writers slowly but surely phasing Pokeshipping out into obscurity.

And if Misty sits out for the D/P region, quite frankly she's done. Tracey/Misty will probably get even closer, due to her sitting out ANOTHER long region. By the time AG ends Misty will be away from Ash nearly 200 episodes, add in another 100 something episodes of the D/P region, and the subplot of Misty liking Ash will be as non-existant as ever. Misty herself is moving on, why can't Misty's fans accept the fact that she's moving on as well?

 

[FabuVinny]

That isn't a blush. Seriously, it's minor annoyance

Misty spent a few minutes with Tracey while Ash met up with his Pokémon. They must be in love!!! Misty chose to sit next to Ash. She can't be in love!!! Hmm...

Do you realise how hypocritical you are being? Anything proves that YOUR ship is true, yet you make sweeping generalisations against PokéShippers for pointing out that PokéShipping hints are still there.

Misty is Tracey's friend as much as she is Ash's friend. But there is nothing canon to say that she likes Tracey more than that compared to five seasons of PokéShipping hints and a "never give up" attitude to love shown in the Luvdisc episode.

 

[Kasumi]

Yes it is. It's not a huge one, but it's visible.

A very slight one and one that any girl would show if someone asked her she was a couple with a friend of hers. At least I would do that.

I fail to see how sitting next to Ash automatically means it's a hint. Misty is still Ash's friend first and foremost. So we're saying people who sit next to each other are hints now? Please, this goes to show how limited Pokeshipping is in AG. There's virtually nothing shippy between them anymore, which is why Pokeshippers look at stuff like seating arrangements to prove that Misty still likes him.

Sorry, but I read his post and he never implied that Ash sitting next to Misty was a hint. What he said is that it was the only time they were seen together in that episode.

 

[Cybersai]

I'm not being hypocritical. As I said, I don't even like Orangeshipping. Do I care if it happens? No, I'm not going to cry over it.

This is fiction. When writers want to bring a new romance into the opening, they'll constantly remind people of the two characters in question.

Why did the writers choose to have both Casey and Sakura accuse Misty/Tracey of being a couple? What was the point if they're not writing a pairing between the two? Why did the writers and animators go through the trouble of making that daydream so romantic for no reason? Why are they constantly reminding us of the "ship" between Tracey/Misty with each of their new appeareances? The writers are putting the SAME type of "hints" for Orangeshipping as they did for Pokeshipping!

The thing is that I haven't seen anything of the sort happen between Misty and Ash in AG. Yes, Pokeshipping existed in the first 5 seasons. I'm saying that since the writers removed her from the show, they decided to end the ship. And by having Misty mature and move on, it won't end up looking like Misty "failed" to get the guy she crushed after for 5 seasons.

If the writers were still writing Pokeshipping, they would have made it apparent when Ash/Misty met each other again. They could have added something, anything to prove that Misty still liked him. Meanwhile we got nothing but friendship between Misty and Ash...and Misty and May...and Misty and Max...etc.

Orangeshipping is the main Misty ship for AG judging by the Hoso's and Misty's lackluster interactions with Ash at Pallet, as the former has had multiple episodes devoted to the concept of it, meanwhile Pokeshipping has been non-existant. It's on life-support to be honest, and the longer Misty stays out of the series the less and less likely Pokeshipping will be canon. It's getting less and less plausible as time goes on, and if Misty isn't in the D/P region, I'll be convinced that Pokeshipping is dead. The writers aren't going to bother to write a ship between the main hero and a girl who hasn't even been in the show for nearly 200+ episodes and 4+ years aside from some cameos. From a fiction standpoint it makes no sense, which is why they've been phasing Pokeshipping out since AG began.

 

[Barb]

Tracey/Misty will probably get even closer, due to her sitting out ANOTHER long region.

I have a question concerning this statement. How can you be so sure that the writers are promoting Orangeshipping if Misty and Tracey are only minor characters who will make a few cameo appearances in the anime? There is potential for Orangeshipping, obviously, but I have to wonder about this considering Tracey realized that Ash and Misty liked each other way back during the Orange Islands episode. I think Tracey/Daisy is more probable than Tracey/Misty.

Oh, and Scott85: yes, there was a slight Pokéshipping bias in FabuVinny's initial post. Because that ship and the five years of anime hints it produced is part of Misty's evolution as a character, your own personal anti-Pokéshipping bias notwithstanding.

 

[Kasumi]

So when that couple in The Bicker the Better thought Ash and May were a couple it means Advance Shipping is canon? Because by your logic it seems so... *rolls eyes*

Edit: I couldn't agree more with you, Barb.

 

[Jo-Jo]

lol, I knew this would turn into a ship debate before five posts were out.

I agree with Scott. From the (limited, admittedly) amount I've seen of Chronicles, the evidence seems to point in the Orangeshipping direction at the moment, IMO. *shrug* It's not as obvious as Pokeshipping used to be, but it's still enough of a presence to be noticable.

That said, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, so if no-one minds me asking, can I get a few details sorted out?:

1. Is there seriously any reason to believe that Misty still likes Ash, apart from the "liking someone else" scene in A Date With Delcatty?

2. Did Daisy really offer Misty the opportunity to leave the gym? And why, according to the Pokeshipping perspective, would Misty turn it down?

3. What are the supposed Handymanshipping hints, anyway? I've never heard of any.

And, er, would it be worth agreeing to disagree on this issue and discussing something more general about Misty's character?

 

[FabuVinny]

We have had two Misty episodes devoted to the aspect of love. First, Misty meets Georgio while Tracey stays at the Gym with Daisy. In the other, Misty tells a Luvdisc to stop moping and make the other one love it, and then she goes to save the Luvdiscs, with Daisy using Tracey for most of the work. Yup, very devoted to OrangeShipping, that.

I do find it ironic that the dubbers actually come out and tell us that they are not a pair, but then that is the Chronicles team we're talking about.

The accusations, (which both came before Tracey got to know Daisy) were mainly there for humour, I expect. Misty has heard it before, but makes it clear that they are not a couple. (She had much bigger reactions to PokéShipping.) The daydream was romantic because it is all in Daisy's character. Think of it like a Meowth fantasy. "We have these Luvdiscs and will now use their main ability in our new show." Misty can be mature and stick to her roots.

You have admitted yourself that AG isn't very shippy in all areas, and that includes OrangeShipping.

 

[FabuVinny]

Wow. Five posts made while I was typing mine!

I agree with Scott. From the (limited, admittedly) amount I've seen of Chronicles, the evidence seems to point in the Orangeshipping direction at the moment, IMO. *shrug* It's not as obvious as Pokeshipping used to be, but it's still enough of a presence to be noticable.

It is more from the third and fourth Misty housou. If she did display an interest, she decided not to persue it.

1. Is there seriously any reason to believe that Misty still likes Ash, apart from the "liking someone else" scene in A Date With Delcatty?

The "someone else" being in Hoenn makes more sense than the "someone else" being back at the Gym, and going on a date with Daisy at the end of the episode anyway.

But there is also the line to Luverin about never giving up. That line is spoken from the heart.

But does she still like him? They are "best friends". Of course she still likes him!

2. Did Daisy really offer Misty the opportunity to leave the gym? And why, according to the Pokeshipping perspective, would Misty turn it down?

It is not a case of shipping preference for why Misty would want to be Gym Leader over Daisy. Just look at how Daisy gives the badges out! Misty is the best leader, and she knows it.

3. What are the supposed Handymanshipping hints, anyway? I've never heard of any.

They get to know each other behind the scenes in "A Date With Delcatty", and they go on a date later, (dub added or not is unknown at this time.)

But the real hnts come in the Luvdisc episode. Once the plot is established, all Tracey ever does or says is to show his attraction to Daisy. As I said, it's like ApprenticeShipping. Daisy knows it, and uses it to her advantage.

EDIT:

Misty is an excellent opponent in battle and has battled Ash to a draw at least twice.

She beat Ash with Psyduck! Yes, that was Ash's stupidity, but I think she would do even better now.

 

[Swifty]

Yes it is. It's not a huge one, but it's visible.

I don't understand the disparity between Misty's blushes that occur within the same episode. We've seen Misty go into major blushing fits before. This blush seems very tame in comparison. Yet in the same episode, when Georgio asks Misty if there's simply someone else, Misty gets an extreme rush of blood to the head, one that is a significant number of degrees higher than her previous one when being accused of being Tracey's girlfriend. Not to mention the difference in her demeanor and behavior. During her first blush she seems relatively calm and collected. However, in the second one, she starts getting all coy and even starts to surface her old temper which seemingly disappeared during Johto.

Is Tracey your boyfriend, Misty?

Is there someone else, Misty?