OU Offense - Standard City

[Exxthus]

I decided to post my OU team here to get some help picking it apart. It works fine for me so far but meh. For reference, A is attack, D is defense, SA is special attack, SD is special defense, and S is speed. And yeah, I made the pic.

Team:

Cruxxis - METAGROSS @Lum Berry
Nature: Adamant (+A -SA)
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 200 HP / 232 A / 44 SD / 32 S

~ Stealth Rock
~ Earthquake
~ Bullet Punch
~ Explosion

Notes: My lead. Stealth Rock and switch, or attack if it suits me. EQ for coverage and general damage, BP for priority (and 2HKOs a lot of frail leads). Explosion is always nice to have in case you want something to die horribly. I chose Lum instead of Occa because I have enough switch-ins for fire and ground attacks, and I want to be able to set up rocks against status leads. The EVs ensure that Metagross survives Fire Blast from a standard Timid/Sash Azelf every time.

Synergy:
Fire - Latias, usually. Starmie can take a few hits and Salamence can manage as well if need be.
Ground - I don't think anything shy of CB STAB EQ will kill it, so I can stay in and attack if I want to. If not, switch to Latias or Salamence.

Torvolem - MAGNEZONE @Choice Scarf
Nature: Naïve (+S -SD)
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 A, 252 SA, 252 S

~ Thunderbolt
~ Flash Cannon
~ Hidden Power (Fire 70)
~ Explosion

Notes: Typical steel trapper, mostly for killing Scizor. Switch in on a Bullet Punch and OHKO with HP Fire. Naïve nature maximizes speed without taking power away from Explosion, like Timid would do. Tbolt is for general damage and mayhem, and Flash Cannon makes for a decent second STAB. Scarf lets it outspeed a fair amount of things but I don't rely on it too heavily. I have a job for it and it does it well.

Synergy:
Fire - Latias or Starmie. Salamence in a pinch.
Ground - Latias or Salamence.
Fighting - Salamence or Latias, usually.

Latias - LATIAS (F) @Choice Specs
Nature: Timid (+S -SA)
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SA / 252 S

~ Trick
~ Surf
~ Thunderbolt
~ Draco Meteor

Notes: Specs makes this thing a beast. Latias is here to take resisted attacks and spam Draco Meteor. Tbolt is for Gyarados and Surf is for coverage alongside Meteor. Trick is on the set to screw up walls and things, especially Blissey who seems to love switching into Latias. I hate those damn things. However, I generally like to hang onto Specs as long as I can so I can kill more stuff.

Synergy:
Dragon - hit it with DM.
Dark, Bug, Ghost, Ice - Scizor. Bug can sometimes be handled by Magnezone, too. Tyranitar is a bit of a concern.

Nebriales - SALAMENCE (F) @Life Orb
Nature: Adamant (+A - SA)
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 A / 252 S

~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Claw
~ Earthquake
~ Roost

Notes: Basic DDmence and my first awesome breed. Normally I go for Jolly on sets like this since DD and LO are boosting attack anyways, but extra power is nice, too. I like to save mence for late-game sweeping when I've gotten rid of most of the likely counters. DD up and sweep, stopping to Roost off residual damage if I get the chance. I prefer Dragon Claw to Outrage for reliability and not being countered by steels that switch in while you're stuck on Outrage, and after a DD or two I find the power difference doesn't matter that much.

Synergy:
Dragon - DClaw it, or switch to zone, gross or zor.
Ice - Scizor. Maybe Metagross.
Rock - EQ, Metagross.

Qamaits - SCIZOR (F) @Choice Band
Nature: Adamant (+A -SA)
Ability: Technician
EVs: 32 HP / 252 A / 224 S

~ Bullet Punch
~ U-Turn
~ Pursuit
~ Superpower

Notes: I can't tell you how many times the extra speed has saved me against things I can't BP. Maximized attack and threw the rest in HP. BP decimates a lot of stuff, U-Turn is a great hit-and-run move, Pursuit hits things running from BP (like Gengar) and Superpower gives me something to use on other steels. I realize U-Turn works better with lower speed so you can switch to an un-hit counter, but the standard CBzor sets don't work well with me on this team. It's more preference.

Synergy:
Fire - Latias, Starmie or Salamence.

Shivik - STARMIE @Expert Belt
Nature: Timid (+S -A)
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SA / 252 S

~ Hydro Pump
~ Thunderbolt
~ Ice Beam
~ Rapid Spin (/Psychic)

Notes: Holy crap, I love Starmie. Very fast and godly coverage. An Expert Belt-boosted Hydro Pump kicks so much ass it's not even funny. I used to run Surf but I wanted the extra power, and Psychic was replaced with Rapid Spin because hazards were starting to get the better of me. I'm probably not going to put Surf on it again, but I may replace this Starmie with a slightly bulkier one for spinning purposes. For now it works as a sweeper with a spinning role.

Synergy:
Electric - Latias, maybe Magnezone.
Grass - Ice Beam it, or switch to Scizor.
Dark, Ghost, Bug - Scizor. Magnezone can handle some things in a pinch.



That's my main team. For now.

 

[Troggy]

Boring.

If you are struggling with beating something in particular I can try to offer advice, but this team is about as standard as it gets.

One question I do have though, does Metagross Bullet Punch 2HKO Azelf? It probably does, just double checking.

 

[coolking503]

^ He's right. Your whole team is in the top 20 for usage, and 5 are in the top 15 (and 4 are in the top 10, and 3 are in the top 5, and 2 are in he top 3, and 1 is in the top 1).
Notice that HP ice magnezone with magnet rise, and subtran with dragon pulse can easily set up and kill your whole team. Also, 3 pokemon have a fire weakness, thus heatran is a good choice. You could lead with it or replace something else, though I'd say lead.

 

[Exxthus]

Boring.

If you are struggling with beating something in particular I can try to offer advice, but this team is about as standard as it gets.

One question I do have though, does Metagross Bullet Punch 2HKO Azelf? It probably does, just double checking.

Fascinating.

It says "Standard" and "OU" in the title. The point of the team isn't interest, but efficiency. If nothing else, Tyranitar seems to be a bit of a problem for me for whatever reason, in part due to unpredictability.

Yes, Bullet Punch 2HKOs.

Notice that HP ice magnezone with magnet rise, and subtran with dragon pulse can easily set up and kill your whole team. Also, 3 pokemon have a fire weakness, thus heatran is a good choice. You could lead with it or replace something else, though I'd say lead.

I haven't ran into any Heatran or Magnezones running sets like that using this team, so I never thought of them. This is why I posted the team. lol Heatran sounds like a good idea. I'd rather not run a second Scarf unless I have to, but you recommended a lead. What is your opinion on a utility or a Sub variant fitting in here? Having other POVs is good.

 

[Troggy]

Notice that HP ice magnezone with magnet rise, and subtran with dragon pulse can easily set up and kill your whole team.

I suppose some Magnezone sets could cause a few problems here, perhaps another Fire/Fighting type attack would be nice. If you knew the Magnezone didnt have HP Fire Scizor could at least Superpower it. Do you mean a Magnezone with Sub/Magnet Rise/Tbolt/HP Ice?

I love Subtran, but I'm not sure it would destroy this team. Iirc Dragon Pulse can be like a 3HKO on Latias, maybe sometimes a 2HKO (That's why I went back to Toxic). If she switched in and started Surfing, Heatran wouldn't win. It couldn't really get past Starmie either. Teams are just so fast these days, so at best Sub Tran would kill while they break the sub, then be forced out. I guess if Sub Tran was able to come in and set up Sub multiple times, that could be trouble, but I don't know how often that would happen.

Also, 3 pokemon have a fire weakness, thus heatran is a good choice. You could lead with it or replace something else, though I'd say lead.

He also has 3 fire resists, though so is an immunity that crucial?

It says "Standard" and "OU" in the title. The point of the team isn't interest, but efficiency. If nothing else, Tyranitar seems to be a bit of a problem for me for whatever reason, in part due to unpredictability.

Yeah yeah I can read. It's just, okay what else is there left to do after you have made such a standard team.

Granted Tyranitar is always going to be unpredictable, which set bothers you the most? Nearly all of your Pokemon can do massive damage to Tyranitar (you have tons of Steel moves for one thing), the issue is just switching in safely and countering.

Do you usually explode your Metagross immediately after SR/countering lead? He could be an asset to stopping Tar later on. Scizor does a pretty good job at stopping Tar if its not DD Babiri Tar. Of course, using the less bulky set makes Stone Edge more of a factor.

If it IS DD Babiri Tar you could switch in Magnezone (resists both STAB moves at least) on the DD if Flash Cannon does enough damage? How much does Meta Bullet Punch do to 4 HP / 0 Def Tar?

You need to be a little more specific, because every single member of your team can hit T-Tar for super effective damage, and most of them outspeed him too.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

I suggest taking out Magnezone for a Scarf Tran as it would decimate this team with HP Ice and Fire Blast/Lava Plume/Overheat/etc etc. Starmie can handle Heatran's well but the opposing team usually has a really good water counter.

Also I don't know why T-tar is a problem since you have a Choice Baneded Technician Scizor with Bullet Punch...unless Pursuit T-tar is what fucks you up then you need to hit it hard with Draco Meteor and hope Scizor will revenge it.

Also how does this team do against a Zapdos? I mean HP-Ice/T-bolt/Heat Wave/Roost is pretty common if you ask me and iirc it can live Latias' DM.

I'm trying to think of other things that might cause problems but I can't think of things for now ._.

 

[Exxthus]

Yeah yeah I can read. It's just, okay what else is there left to do after you have made such a standard team.

Nit-pick and fine tune. Stuff is always changing and I can't always think of everything, so it's good to get advice from the masses every now and again.

Granted Tyranitar is always going to be unpredictable, which set bothers you the most? Nearly all of your Pokemon can do massive damage to Tyranitar (you have tons of Steel moves for one thing), the issue is just switching in safely and countering.

Amen. Mostly the mixed sets. The physical ones I don't have a whole lot of trouble with, even the DDers.

Do you usually explode your Metagross immediately after SR/countering lead? He could be an asset to stopping Tar later on. Scizor does a pretty good job at stopping Tar if its not DD Babiri Tar. Of course, using the less bulky set makes Stone Edge more of a factor.

I don't usually Explode unless Metagross is really low on health or I need something taken down pronto. Survivalist tactics seem to work best for me where I keep stuff alive as long as possible.

I'll run some calcs. I think Meta BP vs non-Babiri Tyranitar does less than 50%, but I could be mistaken. >_o

I suggest taking out Magnezone for a Scarf Tran as it would decimate this team with HP Ice and Fire Blast/Lava Plume/Overheat/etc etc. Starmie can handle Heatran's well but the opposing team usually has a really good water counter.

Also I don't know why T-tar is a problem since you have a Choice Baneded Technician Scizor with Bullet Punch...unless Pursuit T-tar is what fucks you up then you need to hit it hard with Draco Meteor and hope Scizor will revenge it.

Also how does this team do against a Zapdos? I mean HP-Ice/T-bolt/Heat Wave/Roost is pretty common if you ask me and iirc it can live Latias' DM.

I'm trying to think of other things that might cause problems but I can't think of things for now ._.

It's not an absolute terror, but I seem to run into trouble with them for whatever reason.

I'm trying to find a place for Heatran, actually, to see how it does. I like Magnezone's steel trapping abilities, however. Getting rid of the person's obligatory Scizor is always a plus. And yeah, Latias works pretty good vs Heatran so far, but a few of the non-Scarf sets are giving me something to think about.

I don't have an outright Zapdos counter. I usually just pound away at it with stuff and it eventually dies, but I'm open to suggestions.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

It's not an absolute terror, but I seem to run into trouble with them for whatever reason.

I'm trying to find a place for Heatran, actually, to see how it does. I like Magnezone's steel trapping abilities, however. Getting rid of the person's obligatory Scizor is always a plus. And yeah, Latias works pretty good vs Heatran so far, but a few of the non-Scarf sets are giving me something to think about.

I don't have an outright Zapdos counter. I usually just pound away at it with stuff and it eventually dies, but I'm open to suggestions.

Well you could replace Magnezone with Heatran and as long as you keep Trans speed above 251 iirc, you will kill every Scizor...but Scarf Tran is probably the best anyways to no worries there. I'm saying at least try a Heatran and then switch back to Magnezone if all else fails. Also a Scarf Tran would also take care of Zapdos. I don't really see many Scarfed Zapdos running around, more Lefties and LO one's and Heatrans HP Ice would take care of Zapdos really well.

 

[coolking503]

I didn't do Clacs, but having 3 fire weaknesses isn't good and mence and starmie can't really switch in if there's stealth rock, as fire blast 2kos both, and with a scarf, he outspeeds both. A lead set looks like this:

Heatran@ Shuca berry
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~ Stealth Rock
~ Fire Blast
~ Earth Power
~ Explosion

It will help scizor out alot, as your opponent knows it cant shoot out randm fire attacks.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

I didn't do Clacs, but having 3 fire weaknesses isn't good and mence and starmie can't really switch in if there's stealth rock, as fire blast 2kos both, and with a scarf, he outspeeds both. A lead set looks like this:

Heatran@ Shuca berry
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~ Stealth Rock
~ Fire Blast
~ Earth Power
~ Explosion

It will help scizor out alot, as your opponent knows it cant shoot out randm fire attacks.

Swampert(one of the top leads in OU) says hello and depending on how the game goes, the opponent doesn't have to be afraid to "shoot out random fire attacks" because they can trick her or simply...just KO Heatran right from the start...

 

[Troggy]

Amen. Mostly the mixed sets. The physical ones I don't have a whole lot of trouble with, even the DDers.

I don't usually Explode unless Metagross is really low on health or I need something taken down pronto. Survivalist tactics seem to work best for me where I keep stuff alive as long as possible.

I'll run some calcs. I think Meta BP vs non-Babiri Tyranitar does less than 50%, but I could be mistaken. >_o

I don't have an outright Zapdos counter. I usually just pound away at it with stuff and it eventually dies, but I'm open to suggestions.

Do you mean stuff like Substitute / Focus Punch / Ice Beam / Crunch? I love that one and it can be very good on the right team. That one can't get past Scizor, though. I know T-Tars do randomly pack Fire Blast (I've done it to good effect in the past), and it is a bit tough to predict when they'll unleash it.

So maybe give a Heatran a try, it's easy enough to fit in. Your only real choice is to put it in over Magnezone or over Metagross. I'd test both. It'd take your team over more to the special side if you switch it for Gross, but you can always explode on or trick Blissey, so that's probably not a bad thing.

And yeah, I did the calc for Bullet Punching a 4 HP / 0 Def Tar and it looks like it does max ~47%. So maybe forget that route for outright killing tar, but two Bullet Punches means that if he switches into a Latias Draco Meteor or something he is only going to get one or two attacks off at the most before something comes in and smacks him with it. I really don't see too many switch in opportunities for opposing T-Tars as nearly every team member has a set he is afraid of.

Let's see. He can come in on Magnezone if you used anything but Flash Cannon, Starmie if it used Tbolt or Ice Beam, uhhh...that's really about it unless it came in on Latias which isn't a good idea unless it is a very defensive Tar, in which case you would have several possible switch ins because its attacks wont do as much damage.

Zapdos hates Stealth Rock and taking high powered Special Attacks, so I think you're OK there. I love Zapdos so much, but it does certainly have its limitations against these new style Dragon/Steel teams.

 

[SSJ4Jesus]

Swampert(one of the top leads in OU) says hello and depending on how the game goes, the opponent doesn't have to be afraid to "shoot out random fire attacks" because they can trick her or simply...just KO Heatran right from the start...

Metagross (Exxthus' current lead) is just as vulnerable to a lead Swampert as Hetran is. I also think it would be pretty dangerous for someone to trick a scarf/specs onto a Heatran, so I don't think that would happen too often.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

Metagross (Exxthus' current lead) is just as vulnerable to a lead Swampert as Hetran is. I also think it would be pretty dangerous for someone to trick a scarf/specs onto a Heatran, so I don't think that would happen too often.

Yeah what I meant it's the same shit, she is still weak to Perts EQ, and if she had Tran that's also a Waterfall weakness. Why should she jeopardize loosing Heatran when Metagross can be sacrificed, either way she'd end up loosing a Pokemon better Gross than Tran.

Also I didn't mean the move trick, I meant trick as play mind games with her.

Example:
She has Scizor out. Opponent brings in Heatran. Exx is going to switch to her Tran but the opponent clicks on Earth Power because they know she has a Heatran, and boom Exx's Heatran is out. Now I'm not saying she is stupid or something but things like that happen to everyone.

 

[SSJ4Jesus]

Sorry, I thought you meant the move trick xD.

I see the point you're making, but we could play out a bunch of hypothetical situations.

I think heatran would do well on this team, I guess its just a matter of which team member Exxthus needs less (metagross or magnezone) and which set would be more benificial (scarf or lead)

 

[FocusPunch]

252 HP / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe, Correct EVs for the LeadGross. Occa Berry > Lum Berry.

If you are running both Latias and Salamence, you might want to consider converting that Salamence into the bulkier kind. The EVs and Nature changes, but the moveset remains the same, and also Leftovers > Life Orb

Salamence @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
Jolly (+Spd, -SpA)

 

[Exxthus]

252 HP / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe, Correct EVs for the LeadGross. Occa Berry > Lum Berry.

If you are running both Latias and Salamence, you might want to consider converting that Salamence into the bulkier kind. The EVs and Nature changes, but the moveset remains the same, and also Leftovers > Life Orb

Salamence @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
Jolly (+Spd, -SpA)

Uh, I explained why I went with the EVs and item I did on Metagross, so no, those aren't the "correct" EVs for my leadgross. lol

They work well, yes, and that's why Smogon lists it on their Metagross page. However, I know this one can take a beating and I'd rather be able to shrug off a status or sleep (early for set up or later or attacking) than worry over the occasional Infernape lead, which I have more than enough switch-ins for anyways.

And I wanted an offensive DDmence, not bulky, as it doesn't suit the role I needed. I... don't see how using both a Specs Latias and a DDmence on the same team would affect the need for a change in my boosting physical sweeper. They do different jobs and do them well. The only thing I sort of agreed with was Jolly over Adamant as speed is usually a deciding factor, but it matters little as it reaches around, what, 440+ speed after a DD?


Anyways, thanks everyone. You people brought up good points. I'll be trying a Heatran on my team sometime, so thanks for the help with my team.

 

[mc2094]

I think the mons are perfectly fine for the most part though I don't think zone is needed. First off, I'm going to give my thoughts on the EVs and attacks. Scizor should really be bulky. He has decent bulk and really benefits from it when dealing with guys like Suicune and Latias, you really don't need that extra speed. You say you're using Salamence mainly for late game, thus I would go Outrage over Dragon Claw. Always use + Speed DD Mence. The extra power isn't that huge, especially with Outrage, and the extra speed lets you tie with 100 base speed scarfers at worst. Also, for an offensive team like this, you really need all the momentum you can get so I would say Fire Blast is clearly the better choice over Roost which gives a free turn for your opponent to get in a counter, thus forcing you to switch out. As for Metagross, I don't really get how the attacks go with the moves. If you're going to go Lum Berry then Meteor Mash with Bullet Punch is a must to get rid of Roserade( the whole point of Lum Berry Gross.) I really don't get why you would want Lum Berry though, since only Starmie is hit by Toxic Spikes and it can always use Rapid Spin. I'd probably go with Shuca Berry instead. Occa isn't too useful imo since all you can do to tran is set up rocks which really isn't two big a deal to put off for a turn or too. You can easily just switch to Latias on the oppening turn then pivot to Metagross as Heatran flees and get the rocks up. Same goes for Infernape, though you'll want Latias to kill him instead of trying to double switch. I don't see any reason to use expert belt starmie. I mean, you need Life Orb to get some of the needed OHKOs and expert belt would prove useless since Starmie will be dealing enough damage anyways with it's SE moves, since the main targets are guys like Mence and Gyarados. Life Orb Hydro Pump helps with steels quite a bit, mainly Scizor. Rapid Spin is clearly the better choice over Psychic since you'll be switching often. Not too sure about Zone. I don't like the three fire weaknesses and scarf will really give your opponent an easy time getting free set up on you. I would probably test something Sub Champ in its place to help with your slight Tyranitar weakness since you lack something that can constantly switch-in. Gl