Paul's strength as a trainer?

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Infinity`

Katoné City Gym Leader
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Has anyone else noticed Paul's mediocrity as a trainer? It seems that Paul is unable to beat any trainers (save gym leaders and Ash). While that does make him a solid trainer, why is Ash always unable to beat him? Paul lost to Norman doing hardly any damage, while Ash was able to defeat him. Don't you think Paul should have been at least able to beat one of Norman's regi's? Also, he hardly scratched Cynthia's Pokemon as well (although, she's the best ever, so that was kind of expected). It seems that for someone who has completed Kanto, Hoenn, and Johto, Paul should be capable of beating more trainers than he does.

Anyone else think this, or am I alone in evaluating his talent as a trainer?
 
Paul seems to be fairly powerful. He lost to Brandon because he used 3 Regi's against him at the same time, whereas Ash only had to battle 1 Regi.
 
Well, Jindai/Brandon's Regis are goddamn legendaries and he is the goddamn Pyramid King.

Shirona/Cynthia is the motherf***ing Champion and Gablias/Garchomp is a freakin uber in Smogon's tier system. Shirona's Gablias is more uber. And in games all of her Pokémon have PERFECT IVs.

And Shinji/Paul was angered in those battles quite easily, which kinda caused him to dig his own pit of doom.

Besides, he defeated Porto/Provo, the four-time champion of Pokéringer competition of Wind/Squallville Town right?
 
Have we actually seen Shinji against many trainers apart from Satoshi, Shirona and Jindai?

Answer: A small few, and Shinji has beaten them all if I remember correctly.
 
I think the only others were Roark, Maylene (through flashback), and I can't recall any others on-screen. We know he beat all those Gym leaders though.

I'm sure Paul beat some other trainers I can't remember though.
 
All I can think of is those in the tag competition, which Shinji won. How on earth does the OP think that Shinji is a bad trainer?
 
All I can think of is those in the tag competition, which Shinji won. How on earth does the OP think that Shinji is a bad trainer?
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Because the only real trainer we've seen him beat is Ash, and a few gym leaders, which is pretty average. Ash beat Brandon, so if Paul is supposed to be so much stronger (Pokemon-wise) than Ash, why did he do so badly against Brandon? And why did he do so poorly against Cynthia? Surely someone who has participated in three league competitions should be able to at least dent their teams more than he did. He didn't just lose, he was HUMILIATED by both.
 
Infinity` said:
Because the only real trainer we've seen him beat is Ash, and a few gym leaders, which is pretty average. Ash beat Brandon, so if Paul is supposed to be so much stronger (Pokemon-wise) than Ash, why did he do so badly against Brandon? And why did he do so poorly against Cynthia? Surely someone who has participated in three league competitions should be able to at least dent their teams more than he did. He didn't just lose, he was HUMILIATED by both.
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So the participants in the tag tournament weren't serious trainers? The only one that we can say for sure isn't is Hikari who is a co-ordinator.

Satoshi faced Regice, Brandon's latest capture. Shinji had to go up against all three Regi's, who we can say for certain are more experienced now then they were during Battle Frontier.
Shirona is meant to be uber. Satoshi wouldn't have been able to do anything to her pokes either.
 
Seems like you can't wrap your head around a better trainer losing to a strong opponent. I thought it was obvious: not every fight is the same nor goes as planned.

Did you know Ash loses sometimes, retrains, and wins against the same opponent? It really isn't all that crazy to think a person losing could be due to all kinds of reasons: strength, skill, technique, know-how, luck... they all play a part. A single battle does not dictate whether one trainer is better than the other. Unfortunately, in the anime, that single battle is often where it counts and is the only chance you have to 'prove' yourself. If we had all the time in the world maybe watching fifty battles of Paul's would be more insightful, but such craziness isn't realistic.

One better hope the wind is blowing in his or her favor when the time comes.
 
Don't forget the fact Ash happened to have seen the Regis beforehand, so he probably figured out, at least somewhat, how to defeat them.
 
How does a battle against THE CHAMPION OF A REGION and A FROINTER LEADER WITH 3 LEGENDS compares? Those guys have most likely been in dozens of leages before.

Paul is a decent enough trainer to breeze throught most of his gym leaders fights.

Also,the characters in the anime beat each other all the time,it doesn`t mean anything(Ash beated Gary in the leage all the time, but always lost in Pallet town,similar case with May and Drew,Gym leaders with rematches...).

Oh,and Ash had two chances to beat brandon,Paul on the other hand...
 
I can't believe this is an actual question, OP.

Paul is a pretty great trainer, really, despite his conflicts with the protagonist. The fact that he's managed to consistently best Ash is proof enough (though it's also partly due to conflicting battle styles). Everyone has sort of covered why/how he lost to the Champion and the Pyramid King (who, might I add, I seriously doubt has been sitting around doing nothing while Ash is off having happy fun tiems in Sinnoh).
 
Paul beats Ash, IMO because Ash gets too riled up and just has the want to beat him, but he is not calm and cool enough to actually focus enough to do it.

Plus the reason I think Paul can't beat other trainers as (for the most) other trainers take care of their pokemon, and not get mad at them when they don't do well, or even get rid of them. Other trainers don't just go looking for strong pokemon, they find pokemon and make them strong by bonding and this lets their pokemon want to do the best they can for their trainer and therefore they will have a higher chance of beating Pauls pokemon.
 
Paul cannot defeat three legendary pokemon in the same fight, all three handled by one of the world's top trainers and that's the argument you use to say he must be a mediocre trainer... Ok, somebody's overeaching a little bit (and for once, it's not me!) Paul is a strong trainer, with strong pokemon... period.
 
Shinx3000 said:
Paul beats Ash, IMO because Ash gets too riled up and just has the want to beat him, but he is not calm and cool enough to actually focus enough to do it.

Plus the reason I think Paul can't beat other trainers as (for the most) other trainers take care of their pokemon, and not get mad at them when they don't do well, or even get rid of them. Other trainers don't just go looking for strong pokemon, they find pokemon and make them strong by bonding and this lets their pokemon want to do the best they can for their trainer and therefore they will have a higher chance of beating Pauls pokemon.
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I disagree with the first part slightly. I think Paul beats Ash because Paul has a well trained team. Ash's team is a new team, besides Pikachu whose power level fluctuates more than a heart monitor. If Ash went and brought out his best, like he did in the Battle Frontier episodes, it's possible that there would be a major turn-around. I mean, Snorlax alone is a tough MOFO who soaks up damage like a sponge soaks up water. Ash used Snorlax who single-handedly defeated both Gretchen's pokemon, one of which being a Hariyama. That there gives Ash experience in battling Paul's if he used Snorlax.

Either way, Paul is at full strength, while Ash isn't.

However, Paul isn't a shitty trainer. We know this since he actually got all the way to Brandon. Brandon's someone who I feel that if he went all out, could give Cynthia a run for her money.
 
Slipstream said:
I disagree with the first part slightly. I think Paul beats Ash because Paul has a well trained team. Ash's team is a new team, besides Pikachu whose power level fluctuates more than a heart monitor. If Ash went and brought out his best, like he did in the Battle Frontier episodes, it's possible that there would be a major turn-around. I mean, Snorlax alone is a tough MOFO who soaks up damage like a sponge soaks up water. Ash used Snorlax who single-handedly defeated both Gretchen's pokemon, one of which being a Hariyama. That there gives Ash experience in battling Paul's if he used Snorlax.

Either way, Paul is at full strength, while Ash isn't.

However, Paul isn't a shitty trainer. We know this since he actually got all the way to Brandon. Brandon's someone who I feel that if he went all out, could give Cynthia a run for her money.
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Ash always relying on the same 4-5 pokemon to win against any strong trainer = HELLA BORING. Ash training is team and making them stronger = interesting and oh, look ! It's what he's been doing all along Sinnoh... By the league, he'll have Torterra, Infernape, an ice punching buizel, a close combatting staraptor, a pikachu who'll pull a deus ex machina and DRACO METEOR MASTERING GIBLE. That's a winning team if I ever saw one...
 
Gible said:
Ash always relying on the same 4-5 pokemon to win against any strong trainer = HELLA BORING. Ash training is team and making them stronger = interesting and oh, look ! It's what he's been doing all along Sinnoh... By the league, he'll have Torterra, Infernape, an ice punching buizel, a close combatting staraptor, a pikachu who'll pull a deus ex machina and DRACO METEOR MASTERING GIBLE. That's a winning team if I ever saw one...
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It's all about experience. Bulbasaur has more experience than say Ash's evolved turtwig. If it weren't for the fact that Bulbasaur is anti-evolution, Bulbasaur would have been a Venasaur by now. And Sceptile is already fully evolved, and has a wide aresenal of moves to use. I'd rather use a pokemon that's fully evolved and I know what it can do, rather than a pokemon that I've been training but isn't quite there yet, in regards to a pokemon league battle that is. However, I don't think Ash will, due to the fact that this isn't a super-serious league match between the two.
 
Slipstream said:
It's all about experience. Bulbasaur has more experience than say Ash's evolved turtwig. If it weren't for the fact that Bulbasaur is anti-evolution, Bulbasaur would have been a Venasaur by now. And Sceptile is already fully evolved, and has a wide aresenal of moves to use. I'd rather use a pokemon that's fully evolved and I know what it can do, rather than a pokemon that I've been training but isn't quite there yet, in regards to a pokemon league battle that is. However, I don't think Ash will, due to the fact that this isn't a super-serious league match between the two.
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If this was the games, you'd be right. But this is the anime, why would Ash go to all the trouble of training pokemon throughout Sinnoh if he's just gonna dump then when he gets to the league to use Bulbasaur, Squirtle, Charizard, Snorlax, Pikachu and Sceptile. Can you see how illogical and repetitively boring that would be on the writers' part.

Plus, Paul beats Ash's Sinnoh team and Ash turns to them and says, "You guys are weak, next time I'm bringing my older pokemon to beat Paul" That is so contrary to the anime's philosophy, it's not even funny
 
Not to mention how contrary it is to Ash's own personal philosophy. He acknowledges that experience is important, but to him, the most important thing is having faith and trust with his Pokemon. Yes, training is vital and key, but those aren't the heart of the matter. It would be completely out of character for him to replace his Sinnoh team, who haven't had a chance to compete in a league yet, with his old Pokemon just to beat Paul.

Oh, and the whole thing about Paul's team being well-trained as the reason for his victory is true to a certain extent - however, it also has to do with very opposite style of training, I think. Paul treats his Pokemon like living weapons, basically, and attempts to maximize their obvious power as quickly as possible and then begins to swap them out and train new ones. A very game-like strategy, actually, and it works. He's able to decimate the gyms and Ash like most people do in the games. Ash's style isn't nearly as quick - it takes a while for his Pokemon to reach into their potential, but it yields more long term dividends.

I think the difference between the two will become evident when Paul and his team are really pushed - they won't be able to pull out the strength and ability to pull off a last minute win because that's not what they've been trained to.
 
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