Pelosi Hits Bottom

[Rumar]

Just when you think the dominant left wing of the Democratic Party has hit rock-bottom, one of their partisans reaches new depths in slandering people who have an honest difference with them on policy. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi hit the gutter on Thursday, when she tried to explain why Democrats are losing the budget war to President Bush. Mrs. Pelosi (who says she hopes to be able to practice a more civil approach next year) said she had misjudged Republican resolve — particularly on the war against jihadists in Iraq.

"They like this war," Mrs. Pelosi said. "They want this war to continue. That was a revelation to me. I had thought they would listen to their constituents and change their position." She later tried to clarify things by saying she had meant to say that Republicans like Mr. Bush's strategy — not that they "like" the war. But the damage was done and the slur was uttered, and it will be approvingly repeated time and again in the next few months throughout the left-wing blogosphere.

This is not a happy time for congressional Democrats. As we went to press, they seemed to be gradually moving in the direction of yielding to Mr. Bush's threat to veto any appropriations measures containing an Iraq surrender date. In the House, Mrs. Pelosi's fellow Democrats are cutting their spending proposals down to levels demanded by Mr. Bush and have been bickering among themselves over what to fund. On Thursday, she complained about the Senate's filibuster rules and talked about a happier future without a Republican in the White House.

Source: http://washingtontimes.com/article/20071215/EDITORIAL/112150002/1013

 

[The Big Al]

What pile of right-wing shit did you pull this out of? The editorial of the Washington Times is a Republican propaganda bulletin board.

And the Republicans do like the war. The defense contractors that fund their campaigns are making a fortune off this war and greasing their palms. It's about damn time someone told the brutal truth. If anything she should have said "I said it and I'm damn proud I said it. It's about time someone called those war mongering bastards out.". At least I would.

 

[!Tommy]

And the Republicans do like the war. The defense contractors that fund their campaigns are making a fortune off this war and greasing their palms. It's about damn time someone told the brutal truth. If anything she should have said "I said it and I'm damn proud I said it. It's about time someone called those war mongering bastards out.". At least I would.

Ditto. It's true, Bush loves this war that isn't going anywhere. He should pull out before he kills more of our troops who could've accomplished a lot more in a real war. If you ever looked at Bush though whenever he talks on the TV about more people dying in Iraq, he has this shit-ass grin on his face, just look at it once.

 

[Rumar]

Good God, I thought you two would have at least be more open minded. =\

Edit: I don't need to get into a political debate, it's pointless and can lead to things that can easily be avoided. So I'll just let you guys go on with believing what you hear/read.

 

[The Big Al]

I would have been more open minded if you hadn't sourced an op-ed piece from a notoriously conservative biased news paper. I also already know what she had said was the truth. If anything, I'm disappointed she apologized.

Frankly, you asked for a political debate using an op-ed piece for your source.

 

[!Tommy]

Good God, I thought you two would have at least be more open minded. =\

Actually Rumar, I usually am very open minded about a lot of stuff however this one really has me.

All I hear everyday is that more and more of our troops are getting killed by road side bombs and stuff, there doesn't seem to be any real plan of attack. But the real thing that gets me is that you never hear anything being done about it. The reason we went to war was to get Saddam, even though it was Bin Laden that did damage to us. We got Saddam and now he's dead but yet we still can't leave because Bush can't get a government that he wants in there, now that he has, he won't let them take over running their country. That's just how I see it. Plus he's spending money on this war like it's water and then WE have to pay for it at the end.

However, I don't want you guys seeing me as a closed minded person because of my opinion on this war.

 

[Rumar]

I would have been more open minded if you hadn't sourced an op-ed piece from a notoriously conservative biased news paper. I also already know what she had said was the truth. If anything, I'm disappointed she apologized.

Frankly, you asked for a political debate using an op-ed piece for your source.

You do not support any counter points and you simply claim everything any Conservative says as bias? Why is it bias? Please support your statements.
And how do you know she speaks the truth? Where does she get her information?

Actually Rumar, I usually am very open minded about a lot of stuff however this one really has me.

All I hear everyday is that more and more of our troops are getting killed by road side bombs and stuff, there doesn't seem to be any real plan of attack. But the real thing that gets me is that you never hear anything being done about it. The reason we went to war was to get Saddam, even though it was Bin Laden that did damage to us. We got Saddam and now he's dead but yet we still can't leave because Bush can't get a government that he wants in there, now that he has, he won't let them take over running their country. That's just how I see it. Plus he's spending money on this war like it's water and then WE have to pay for it at the end.

However, I don't want you guys seeing me as a closed minded person because of my opinion on this war.

We're in there because of Al Quada is so close to being torn from its roots, which is a great start at destroying that radical terrorist group once and for all, it's a global organization, not just in Iraq. That's why Osama sent out that recent video to his own groups to unite because we were actually succeeding in tearing them apart. I see plenty of videos where soldiers really wanna STAY there and help get the job done, they aren't dragged from their beds and forced to be drafted against their will, they sign themselves up.

Look, you only see the problems in the war, not the actually work itself, all we see in the news is: Another civilian is killed, a soldier is killed. IT'S WAR, of course there's gonna be casualties. But the media focuses so much around it because they're liberal and showing a single pro in the war would side with the conservatives. CNN, NBC, ABC, the whole alphabet is controlled by the media. That's why we don't see the REAL news behind the war. We hear ASSUMPTIONS on how the oil company loves this war and all want the oil, they do business, they don't have any hand in this war. And it's BECAUSE we do business with them for oil that people attack the oil companies and state they have a hand in it and Bush supports them. If people don't want to help the oil industry, there's plenty of other means of transportation but they choose not to. They still go out and buy their own car, because well, it's for themselves, it's a personal thing.

Go look on liveleak.com they show a lot more details in what's going on in the war and other things that are banned from the media and banned from the papers. Hell, even the news over how Kerry betrayed his soldiers was banned from being aired to show what REALLY went on with him during Vietnam. They banned the clip about how Hillary and Bill stole over 2 million dollars in government cash and when the vid was leaked on the internet, Google banned it after it hit a certain amount of views. BECAUSE it would show more support for the Conservatives.

Here's something for you to chew on as well:

American soldiers in Vietnam were falsely accused of being a “barbarian horde,” “rapists,” “murderers,” “drug addicts” and “baby killers.”

Today, their sons, daughters and grandchildren serving in uniform stand accused of being “terrorists,” “Nazis,” “cold-blooded murderers,” people who wantonly conduct “air raids on villages” bombing and killing civilians.

Every one of those spurious accusations were spewed from the Halls of Congress, most often by the same men and women who voted to send America’s youth to war, only to denounce, vilify and abandon them later, when the opportunity for personal, political advantage presented itself.

Source:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d6f_1191542247

 

[The Big Al]

You do not support any counter points and you simply claim everything any Conservative says as bias? Why is it bias? Please support your statements.

What a neo-con. The Washington Times is infamous for it's conservative bias. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Times

And how do you know she speaks the truth? Where does she get her information?

I know she speaks the truth because I've read up on it. Do you know the kind of money defense contractors are making from the war? And much of that is filling the campaign coffers of conservative politicians. They're gaining money and power from this war, of course they like it.

We're in there because of Al Quada is so close to being torn from its roots, which is a great start at destroying that radical terrorist group once and for all, it's a global organization, not just in Iraq.

Dear god. We had Al Qaeda by the throat but we instead went to war on Iraq and let bin Laden escape. And last I checked Al Qaeda was stronger than it was before 9/11. Great job destroying terror guys. :banghead:

That's why Osama sent out that recent video to his own groups to unite because we were actually succeeding in tearing them apart.

1. bin Laden is dead. The fact was driven home becaue they're using a bad look alike in his place.
2. They don't need to be united. They're as strong as ever.

I see plenty of videos where soldiers really wanna STAY there and help get the job done, they aren't dragged from their beds and forced to be drafted against their will, they sign themselves up.

Polls say a majority of troops want the war to be brought to a close. Actually, it's not even a war. It's a God damned occupation.

Look, you only see the problems in the war, not the actually work itself, all we see in the news is: Another civilian is killed, a soldier is killed.

Because progress will not be made with military aggression.

IT'S AN OCCUPATION, of course there's gonna be casualties.

fixed

But the media focuses so much around it because they're liberal and showing a single pro in the war would side with the conservatives. CNN, NBC, ABC, the whole alphabet is controlled by the media.

Oh fuck. We've been discovered...NOT!

The networks are controlled by corporations. It's just this war was executed so poorly.

That's why we don't see the REAL news behind the war.

Then why does "Fair and Balanced" FOX News cover the war the least?

We hear ASSUMPTIONS on how the oil company loves this war and all want the oil, they do business, they don't have any hand in this war.

You can't deny they've benefited from it continuing.

And it's BECAUSE we do business with them for oil that people attack the oil companies and state they have a hand in it and Bush supports them. If people don't want to help the oil industry, there's plenty of other means of transportation but they choose not to. They still go out and buy their own car, because well, it's for themselves, it's a personal thing.

That's why E-85 sales are through the roof.

Go look on liveleak.com they show a lot more details in what's going on in the war and other things that are banned from the media and banned from the papers. Hell, even the news over how Kerry betrayed his soldiers was banned from being aired to show what REALLY went on with him during Vietnam. They banned the clip about how Hillary and Bill stole over 2 million dollars in government cash and when the vid was leaked on the internet, Google banned it after it hit a certain amount of views. BECAUSE it would show more support for the Conservatives.

"Liveleak"? More like lieleak. That was banned because it's absolute bullshit. I'd suggest fear.org and fair.org.

Here's something for you to chew on as well:

Source:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d6f_1191542247

If I remember correctly they have been saying that about the contractors. You know the bastards who get drunk and shoot Iraqi and are supposedly not covered by any law.

 

[Rumar]

What a neo-con. The Washington Times is infamous for it's conservative bias. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Times

I know she speaks the truth because I've read up on it. Do you know the kind of money defense contractors are making from the war? And much of that is filling the campaign coffers of conservative politicians. They're gaining money and power from this war, of course they like it.

Dear god. We had Al Qaeda by the throat but we instead went to war on Iraq and let bin Laden escape. And last I checked Al Qaeda was stronger than it was before 9/11. Great job destroying terror guys. :banghead:

1. bin Laden is dead. The fact was driven home becaue they're using a bad look alike in his place.
2. They don't need to be united. They're as strong as ever.

Polls say a majority of troops want the war to be brought to a close. Actually, it's not even a war. It's a God damned occupation.

Because progress will not be made with military aggression.

fixed

Oh fuck. We've been discovered...NOT!

The networks are controlled by corporations. It's just this war was executed so poorly.

Then why does "Fair and Balanced" FOX News cover the war the least?

You can't deny they've benefited from it continuing.

That's why E-85 sales are through the roof.

"Liveleak"? More like lieleak. That was banned because it's absolute bullshit. I'd suggest fear.org and fair.org.

If I remember correctly they have been saying that about the contractors. You know the bastards who get drunk and shoot Iraqi and are supposedly not covered by any law.

How are they gaining power from this war?? They're oil industries, they have no hand in this war, dude. You're just bringing them into it because we deal business with Iraq, and isn't gas prices RISING??? That's because of the war, we have to spend MORE money for the oil and therefore need to raise it, if they were seeing profit, they would lower the price of gas. They did it plenty of times before.

Dude, you're not even putting forth an effort to even read or look into anything that's not left wing. You say Live leak is Lieleak, why do you say they lie? Because it's been banned from the media?? No, they have professional articles and videos taken from the countries over there and you say they're liars. You need to put more research into what you're arguing against. Wikipedia is brought by the public, not professional businesses alone. Because I'm in the right wing and opposing your political views, I'm neo-con and bias, that's funny.

 

[The Big Al]

How are they gaining power from this war?? They're oil industries, they have no hand in this war, dude.

Their hand is Bush. His family was made filthy stinking by oil and they have connections to many an oil barren. They have his ear and as long as they're making money hand over fist they will tell him to keep the war going and being a fellow oilman he will agree.

You're just bringing them into it because we deal business with Iraq, and isn't gas prices RISING??? That's because of the war, we have to spend MORE money for the oil and therefore need to raise it, if they were seeing profit, they would lower the price of gas. They did it plenty of times before.

One word. GREED!

Dude, you're not even putting forth an effort to even read or look into anything that's not left wing.

I could say the same about you and the right wing.

You say Live leak is Lieleak, why do you say they lie?

I don't know, they fact that you can't support their claims with unbiased sources or what truth they do tell is twisted into a lie. And it being a .com site speaks volumes. It smacks of a right-wing propaganda site. I don't quote left-wing propaganda sites as news. Pay the same respect.

Because it's been banned from the media??

Last time I checked pushing lies as news is banned. So put 2 and 2 together.

No, they have professional articles and videos taken from the countries over there and you say they're liars.

Half truths are worse than complete lies. They have narrowed the field of vision to the small picture so it would be easier to support their claims despite the big picture contradicting it.

You need to put more research into what you're arguing against. Wikipedia is brought by the public, not professional businesses alone. Because I'm in the right wing and opposing your political views, I'm neo-con and bias, that's funny.

The fact you regurgitate irrational neo-con talking points makes you a neo-con.

 

[Zeta]

if they were seeing profit, they would lower the price of gas.

LOL! There goes any credibility you had right there.

We're in there because of Al Quada is so close to being torn from its roots, which is a great start at destroying that radical terrorist group once and for all, it's a global organization, not just in Iraq.

A) I thought we were in there for the WMDs that don't exist.

B) Attacking terrorists organizations doesn't work. It just makes them into martyrs which causes more people to sign into the organization for every one you kill. The only way to fight terrorism is through politics and diplomacy.

I see plenty of videos where soldiers really wanna STAY there and help get the job done, they aren't dragged from their beds and forced to be drafted against their will, they sign themselves up.

Because people who sign themselves up for a job where they kill or be killed are intelligent enough to judge the status of a political situation, M I RITE?

Look, you only see the problems in the war, not the actually work itself, all we see in the news is: Another civilian is killed, a soldier is killed. IT'S WAR, of course there's gonna be casualties.

But it's worth it to turn the Middle East into America II, right? Because that's what we need to spend our money on.

But the media focuses so much around it because they're liberal and showing a single pro in the war would side with the conservatives. CNN, NBC, ABC, the whole alphabet is controlled by the media.

And the media is run by rich corporations which are typically Republican for the sake of tax breaks. I noticed you didn't notice the FOX media conglomerate, which is basically permanently hooked to Bush's cock like a lamprey. Oh wait, they try to not mention the war at all . . .

That's why we don't see the REAL news behind the war.

So how do you know about this "real news"? And what is this "Real news"? Healthy American patriots shooting magical star-spangled beams that spread the Force of Freedom throughout the middle east and convert those heathen Muslims to the side of Christ?

We hear ASSUMPTIONS on how the oil company loves this war and all want the oil, they do business, they don't have any hand in this war.

Bush and all of his cronies ARE the oil company.

If people don't want to help the oil industry, there's plenty of other means of transportation but they choose not to.

I think it's a bit late to be riding horses into work.

 

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

I guess TBA also agrees with Pete Stark's statement that Bush gets enjoyment from the deaths of soldiers. There's a clear difference between legitimate disagreement over the war and baseless insults from people like Stark and Pelosi that Republicans love blood or other nonsense like that.

 

[The Big Al]

He doesn't get enjoyment from the death of soldiers. However, if he truly cared he would be part of serious discussion to bring this occupation to a conclusion instead of saying we've got to stay there.

And they don't love blood. They love money. The death and all is just a business expense. They're indifferent, not evil.

 

[Perxio]

So how do you know about this "real news"? And what is this "Real news"? Healthy American patriots shooting magical star-spangled beams that spread the Force of Freedom throughout the middle east and convert those heathen Muslims to the side of Christ?

EXACTLY.

Dammit, finally they must have taped and aired that. It took them long enough. The liberal media brainwashing the innocents of America with these "facts".

Anyway, I don't think anyone put this all better than Zeta, and The Big Al and Brian are right. I can't add much else to it. Except that what I quoted me chuckle.

 

[Misty]

Hi, please stop giving liberalism a bad name :/

Pelosi already corrected herself, she didn't mean that they "like" the war, more that they are very dogged on it and really refuse to discuss exit strategy, despite the war's unpopularity.

I read an article about this situation, and the truth is - this is the Democrats' fault. They made a lot of promises that they simply can't keep. As long as the Republicans stick to their hard-line positions, there is no way Congress will ever do anything, let alone get us out of Iraq.

The downside of all this is that it's all very short-sighted. Ideally, the Republicans are setting themselves up for a massacre in 2008, because it's hard to argue that the war is still very unpopular and a major issue for voters (along with economic issues, which historically have brought Democrats to power, and climate change, which is becoming a bipartisan issue but is still mostly Democratic) - but the real losers are pretty much anyone currently sitting in Congress, because they're going to bear the brunt of Congress' historically low approval rating.

 

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

Hi, please stop giving liberalism a bad name :/

Pelosi already corrected herself, she didn't mean that they "like" the war, more that they are very dogged on it and really refuse to discuss exit strategy, despite the war's unpopularity.

I read an article about this situation, and the truth is - this is the Democrats' fault. They made a lot of promises that they simply can't keep. As long as the Republicans stick to their hard-line positions, there is no way Congress will ever do anything, let alone get us out of Iraq.

The downside of all this is that it's all very short-sighted. Ideally, the Republicans are setting themselves up for a massacre in 2008, because it's hard to argue that the war is still very unpopular and a major issue for voters (along with economic issues, which historically have brought Democrats to power, and climate change, which is becoming a bipartisan issue but is still mostly Democratic) - but the real losers are pretty much anyone currently sitting in Congress, because they're going to bear the brunt of Congress' historically low approval rating.

That's a pretty cheap copout from her. At least Stark had enough guts to say that he was sorry after his remarks.

 

[Rumar]

I apologize Misty as I know you're trying to keep the peace. I thank you for that, I'm all up for this topic being locked as it's seeing no end.

Their hand is Bush. His family was made filthy stinking by oil and they have connections to many an oil barren. They have his ear and as long as they're making money hand over fist they will tell him to keep the war going and being a fellow oilman he will agree.

So you're saying George Bush himself owns the oil industry, that they only go out and invade Iraq for the oil they're good for? Then how come Congress hasn't stopped him? The president doesn't call for war, they can suggest it, but Congress says whether or not they go into war. He must be very intelligent to trick the entire Congress (which plenty of places and people state who aren't for him) to go out there. Then how come a lot of people say he's an idiot?

One word. GREED!

Please provide source that this is all about oil and greed. Why are all the other countries involved then? Because of greed and oil? No, they have been struck by the terrorists as well and they wanna pay it all back as well.

I could say the same about you and the right wing.

Dude, there isn't much right wing media out there anymore at all. Just the internet and radio we got now. Most news stations are liberal, FOX is the only one that leans more toward the middle and apparently they're biased.

I don't know, the fact that you can't support their claims with unbiased sources or what truth they do tell is twisted into a lie. And it being a .com site speaks volumes. It smacks of a right-wing propaganda site. I don't quote left-wing propaganda sites as news. Pay the same respect.

What respect? You haven't shown me any respect in this thread whatsoever. American soldiers in Vietnam were falsely accused of being a “barbarian horde,” “rapists,” “murderers,” “drug addicts” and “baby killers.”

Today, their sons, daughters and grandchildren serving in uniform stand accused of being “terrorists,” “Nazis,” “cold-blooded murderers,” people who wantonly conduct “air raids on villages” bombing and killing civilians.

Every one of those spurious accusations were spewed from the Halls of Congress, most often by the same men and women who voted to send America’s youth to war, only to denounce, vilify and abandon them later, when the opportunity for personal, political advantage presented itself.

Last time I checked pushing lies as news is banned. So put 2 and 2 together.

Yeh, and Loose Change WASN'T banned because is an obvious source of truth.

Half truths are worse than complete lies. They have narrowed the field of vision to the small picture so it would be easier to support their claims despite the big picture contradicting it.

I'm not even gonna bring it up. Not worth wasting time.

The fact you regurgitate irrational neo-con talking points makes you a neo-con.

LOL, you further prove my point, you're beginning to sound like a parrot. I haven't shown that I even supported until after you guys verbally attacked me, calling me an instant neo-con. I love this country and am grateful I live here. I don't like people bad mouthing the president as that is TREASON. A lot of people wouldn't know the threat to our freedom unless another million people died and the power source to their XBoxes or iPods were cut off.

A) I thought we were in there for the WMDs that don't exist.

Dude, it doesn't have to be a large nuclear missile to be a weapon of mass destruction. It can be a small rocket launcher. And yes, they have found missiles in the drinking water, when a plane flew over, it ripped the roof off a building and the British military found more missiles stashed in there. What about the ship full of bombs that was heading towards Iraq for Saddam? It was stopped by the Australian military.

B) Attacking terrorists organizations doesn't work. It just makes them into martyrs which causes more people to sign into the organization for every one you kill. The only way to fight terrorism is through politics and diplomacy.

What the hell are you talking about? The only way to fight terrorism is through politics, bull shit. You try to talk to a terrorist who wants to kill you, that won't stop them from killing you.

Because people who sign themselves up for a job where they kill or be killed are intelligent enough to judge the status of a political situation, M I RITE?

Being in the Marines and Army isn't just to go out for war, they have many different jobs out there in different fields in all the branches of the military. There's chefs, photographers, administrative work, communications, field in machinery, repairs, business running and even transportation and cargo.

But it's worth it to turn the Middle East into America II, right? Because that's what we need to spend our money on.

We aren't turning it into America 2, they are actually doing well in there own democracy, we helped them go into a revolution just like Romania got one. That's why Romania is so thankful and loves America, we helped support them in the time of need like we were doing for these people despite some trying to kill us and their own people. They hung Saddam, not us, THEY put him through trial and succeeded, before they couldn't because they would be killed for even saying his name wrong.

And the media is run by rich corporations which are typically Republican for the sake of tax breaks. I noticed you didn't notice the FOX media conglomerate, which is basically permanently hooked to Bush's cock like a lamprey. Oh wait, they try to not mention the war at all . . .

Right, they only bad mouth themselves and spread further liberal news just to make ourselves look worst. As I stated above, FOX is the only one that leans more towards the middle, but they're just bias and neo-cons, am I right?

So how do you know about this "real news"? And what is this "Real news"? Healthy American patriots shooting magical star-spangled beams that spread the Force of Freedom throughout the middle east and convert those heathen Muslims to the side of Christ?

Go read into the muslim faith and see why a lot of them are converting. If one tries to leave, they get killed, if they're NOT of muslim, they get killed. It's in their Quran to kill or enslave those who are not in their religion. Muhammed, their profit, also had a big hand in many massacres.

Bush and all of his cronies ARE the oil company.

Yeh, we're being protected from oil companies, now I know where to go to.

I think it's a bit late to be riding horses into work.

Yeh, I know, bikes, hybrids, and even roller skates/blades and our own two legs haven't been invented yet, when are we gonna break down and bring those to the public???

He doesn't get enjoyment from the death of soldiers. However, if he truly cared he would be part of serious discussion to bring this occupation to a conclusion instead of saying we've got to stay there.

And they don't love blood. They love money. The death and all is just a business expense. They're indifferent, not evil.

We'd be done months or maybe even a couple of years ago if people would just let the soldiers do their thing. Now they say that you can't shoot unless shot at. Yes, there are casualties of war, who says there won't be? But now I see articles where if a soldier accidentally shot someone, they are immediately taken as a murderer and cold-blooded killer. Then they face trial and what does the CAIR do? They take the enemies or people who had no idea what was going on and asked them to state that soldier's a killer. Because he's in uniform, of course they're gonna say he's a killer even if he never shot his gun once before that accident.

If it were Kerry as president, he WOULD HAVE done the same thing Bush was doing but we'd be seeing more support, seeing better statements on how many lives were saved instead of lost. He wouldn't it differently because he knows it's the right thing to do and it gets the public's eye. The liberal government knows the truth, they know what's going on, but they won't support because it goes against their political party.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

He must be very intelligent to trick the entire Congress (which plenty of places and people state who aren't for him) to go out there.

Yes, Bush was telling the truth. THE COMPLETE TRUTH. Just LOOK at all the weapons of mass destruction we found in Iraq. Oh, wait...there WERE NONE. But, surely, we found the ties to terrorism that Bush said Hussein had. What? We DIDN'T?

What DIDN'T Bush and the administration lie about going into the war? They said we would be welcomed as liberators. Didn't happen. They gave us a time table that it would take. That didn't happen. Hell, Bush himself said "mission accomplished." Yet, we're STILL THERE.

Then how come a lot of people say he's an idiot?

Because he is. You see, he surrounds himself with intelligent/manipulative people. Bush DID lie and deceive the people. But not knowingly. However, the people who were giving him his briefings, telling him what was going on there, etc., THEY were lying.

Because of greed and oil? No, they have been struck by the terrorists as well and they wanna pay it all back as well.

Iraq did not equal terrorism until AFTER we entered and destabilized the country.

But, to be honest, I don't buy the whole "we went for the oil" thing. It just seems...lazy.

American soldiers in Vietnam were falsely accused of being a “barbarian horde,” “rapists,” “murderers,” “drug addicts” and “baby killers.”

Not all of them were "falsely" accused. Many were very much guilty of those acts. Not a majority, though. And those who were treated like shit when they returned certainly didn't deserve the crap they got (unless they actually DID those things).

Today, their sons, daughters and grandchildren serving in uniform stand accused of being “terrorists,” “Nazis,” “cold-blooded murderers,” people who wantonly conduct “air raids on villages” bombing and killing civilians.

I have NEVER heard anyone say that about the current troops aside from the REALLY crazy people like the Westboro Baptist Church.

Dude, it doesn't have to be a large nuclear missile to be a weapon of mass destruction. It can be a small rocket launcher.

...A ROCKET LAUNCHER IS NOT A WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. Unless, MAYBE, it has a nuclear or chemical warhead attached.

What about the ship full of bombs that was heading towards Iraq for Saddam? It was stopped by the Australian military.

Wtf? When did THAT happen?

What the hell are you talking about? The only way to fight terrorism is through politics, bull shit. You try to talk to a terrorist who wants to kill you, that won't stop them from killing you.

And killing them has really helped. The more you kill, the more there seem to be.

We aren't turning it into America 2, they are actually doing well in there own democracy, we helped them go into a revolution just like Romania got one. That's why Romania is so thankful and loves America, we helped support them in the time of need like we were doing for these people despite some trying to kill us and their own people. They hung Saddam, not us, THEY put him through trial and succeeded, before they couldn't because they would be killed for even saying his name wrong.

...We SUPPORTED Romania's overthrowing of Communist rule. We didn't do it for them.

Go read into the muslim faith and see why a lot of them are converting. If one tries to leave, they get killed, if they're NOT of muslim, they get killed. It's in their Quran to kill or enslave those who are not in their religion. Muhammed, their profit, also had a big hand in many massacres.

I'm still waiting for someone to point out the exact verse.

We'd be done months or maybe even a couple of years ago if people would just let the soldiers do their thing.

Who's stopping them? Aside from the terrorists who came in after we invaded? And the initial (Republican-controlled) Congress who failed to give them enough money?

 

[Misty]

That's a pretty cheap copout from her. At least Stark had enough guts to say that he was sorry after his remarks.

To be honest I think it's mostly just political - Pelosi knows that she's beat and now is concentrating on framing the issue for voters in the 2008 election. She's just saying "Yeah, we know what we promised, but it's not OUR fault we couldn't do anything." Whether or not that's true - I'd argue it is - doesn't matter, because it's mostly a question of what the voters will think.

Also, FYI: This is straying off topic. If you want to discuss the Iraq War, make a separate topic.

 

[Fig]

To be fair, how much was willful lying on Bush's part and how much was, let's say, Bush deluding himself in the first place is not exactly clear.

Honestly, I think he went at the whole thing with the honest pre-conceived notion "Saddam is evil", bought into every proof presented to him that may have supported that theory, and looked down as "poor fools living in a pre-9-11 world" on anyone who objected. Unfortunately, Bush is very good indeed at acting on his own and ignoring others.

Or, as they say - never attribute to malice what can equally well be attributed to sheer idiocy.