Plot of Humans in the games?

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PiccoloX

I'm just Saiyan...
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By "plot" I mean "If they aren't a Pokemon trainer then why do they exist?" I suppose the root of this evil is Professor Oak basically unable to fulfill his job due to never knowing anything about Pokemon past the character name screen, but it seems to stand out even more during my Alpha play through. During X and Y the people at least mentioned the land you were in, but in Alpha they are back to only talking about Pokemon.

Where's the economic reasoning for there being towns other than skipping stones between gym badges? You'd think there would be few in each town with reasons for being at that location, like the hot springs or the inept scientists launching rockets for no reason at all in an otherwise good location to launch rockets. And why are there scientists anyway? They have a damn wishing stone in front of their building! :goof:

I'm sure I've gone off track on a rant, but is there a purpose to humans other than being Pokemon Trainers or assisting Pokemon trainers? The only legitimate normal human job I think I've seen in the Pokemon world that had nothing to do with Pokemon were the Taxi drivers. Can't even go out to eat without someone wanting to curb stomp me. The Anime would be closer to the game if every time Ash ate a sandwich someone would fight him for it. lol
 
To say this is the "plot problem" of the game, I think this is more about the world-building and background setting problem of the in-game Poke-universe. Because the problem you mentioned now is not about the main events which is the game story to be experience by the player, but more correctly speaking the "texture" of the in-game world.

It is true that being an adventurous RPG game where player go travel a vast land to see many different things, the world of Pokemon series was always so Pokemon-centered, makes you feel like if you don't associate yourself with something related to Pokemon, you are not part of the world. This is the key of the problem as this makes the world so one-dimensional, lack of depth and dynamics, lack of vivid world-building.

Unlike world of many other RPG games, besides swordplay and magic and battles which is the main focus of players in many of those RPG world, there are NPCs that don't know any swordplay/magic/battle skills, there are NPCs that will talk about many things that is unrelated to swordplay/magic/battle, there are NPCs that will talk about the mundane daily life of themselves. All these different kinds of conversations from different NPCs add different colours and layers to the world, thus makes the world dynamic and vivid in the eyes of the player.

Yeah, this world-building problem withing the Pokemon game is getting severe in the recent generation.
 
Pokemon is very different from the real world. In the real world humans have an obsession with separating themselves from animals whereas in the Pokemon world they integrate despite the creatures in the Pokemon world being far more dangerous.

So in Pokemon humans act like they should do, act as guardians to the Pokemon and help them in various tasks while getting on with their own lives. Such as chefs having Pokemon help them cook and the Pokemon can live in peace with the human.

So yeah, the human's role in Pokemon seems to be to co-exist with Pokemon. Take that, N!
 
I want to believe that there is a deep untold story where Pokemon MUST fight each other and Humans have become moderators to keep the aggression in check. Would make more sense considering people in this world are so spiritual, yet maintain technology beyond the world we live in.
 
I agree that the issue has gotten worse in recent games, there are a few things that seem to be overlooked this far. Firstly , as far as the economic end is concerned, it's easy to forget that many in-game items that can be purchased , while only explicitly stated in game to have an effect on pokemon, would logically serve purposes for humans as well. It's hard to say that Soda Pop and MooMoo Milk are only able to be consumed by Pokemon.Additionally, while X and Y may have done a better job than ORAS at including more world-constructing NPC dialogue, keep in mind that Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are remakes and therefore X and Y had a lot more freedom in this area.
 
PiccoloX said:
I want to believe that there is a deep untold story where Pokemon MUST fight each other and Humans have become moderators to keep the aggression in check. Would make more sense considering people in this world are so spiritual, yet maintain technology beyond the world we live in.
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While I don't think that Pokémon HAVE to fight each other, I do agree that one of the roles a human has in the Pokémon world is to keep these creatures in line. Imagine that the Pokédex entries are true, and that the more ridiculous entries are what would happen should certain Pokémon's power go unchecked. Poké Balls are said to limit a Pokémon's powers to a less destructive degree, while allowing them to be stronger in combat as a trade-off. Simply put, if human's didn't exist, then the Pokémon would accidentally destroy their own world!
 
At first I thought the OP said that Professor Oak is the root of all evil. Darn it... this would have explained literally everything in the games.

In all seriousness... I've always viewed the Pokémon World as an alternate Earth that has super-powered animals instead of normal ones... even if some of them don't look like animals at all. And I've always thought that the "bond between people and Pokémon" theme that they always implement in the games kinda mirrors what a lot of people are trying to do in real life: protecting the environment and living in harmony with it. That's how I see it, anyway.
 
I've begun to wonder the same thing. Humans just don't seem to be anything more than conduits for the ideas of battle or culture. Pokémon can do the former themselves and have no need for the latter. Not to mention the Pokémon do all the work. Tajiri should've let humans battle on their own, at the very least each other. Have something besides Pokémon like angels otherwise and try not to have much human-on-Pokémon violence.
 
The setup's kind of strange. I think the role of humans and the rather simple nature of the world probably comes from the series' roots, where things weren't that fleshed out or deeply analyzed. The series overall may have developed a lot, but the basic template used for each game is similar to the original. Really though, in video games, there are a lot of things like that. For example, in the Mario series, certain mushrooms have a tendency to make you grow bigger, and that bigger size, for whatever reason, allows you to not die when a fish touches you. Why? That's the way it is. Humans seem to exist for the sole purpose of Pokemon for that same reason.

That's not a very satisfactory answer, but I see it as a consequence of making a world and some mechanics without stringing in a ton of lore into it. Not that it's a bad thing. Sometimes, simplicity's better. Besides, the lack of explanation makes for good fanfiction/imagination fodder, doesn't it?
 
IMO, simplicity is NOT anything good, especially for narratology and story+world building.

For a work of fiction set in a distanced world, one can say it is a prerequisite of at least giving the world a solidified structure that consist of plausible physics framework of its own. Please note, what I meant by "physics" in here, is not the knowledges of physical sciences of our real world, but I mean the principle laws which makes sense within the respective fictional world. Say for example, in the Tales of Phantasia, in order for the Elf and Half-Elf to use magic, mana (a form of energy produced by the Tree of Yggdrasil) must be consumed. And then, the excessive consumption of mana by the Magic Science is the cause of the whole story of Tales of Phantasia.

It doesn't have to use the same physical principle from our world, but in order for a fantasy world to make sense, there needs to be some principle physical laws that is plausible in its universe. I had play many RPG games and read quite a lot of fantasy manga and light novels. All the good ones with well-written stories will have their world well-constructed. That is not just the physics of its nature, but also the economies and politic power of different countries, the cultures and morals of each different cities/towns/tribes, even down to the in-universe roles of each single characters, including the NPCs that just talk to you for a single word, these world-building frameworks are all clear and definite.

Now when I think back and compare the main Pokemon series to many JRPG games, the in-game Pokemon world-building is surely under-developed to the level of only one single word of "strange". The kind of "solidified world-building" that everyone seems to deemed to be canon, I think it is merely the world is consisted of the magical creature "Pokemon", we human live with the Pokemon and use them for many different purpose, where the most significant one is being a trainer and travel the world and battle other trainers, being the top that called Champion (or Pokemon Master within the anime-verse). It seems like every single human possess at least one single Pokemon, and Pokemon battles is part of their daily life, and/or every single person will do something related to Pokemon. And then, the technology level of Pokemon-universe seems to concurrent or a little advance than our world, but somehow strangely every single technology invention must related to Pokemon.

About the rest that is not anything Pokemon-related, such as economy, politics, history and cultures to a more deeper level, even the human themselves, etc, are not explained nor referenced. Well, even the things that are directly related to Pokemon, such as the mechanism of Pokeball, the history and background setting of Pokemon League, the origin of Pokemon, and the newly introduced Mega Evolution, etc, are never explained in details in the game. All of these other things, even many of the poster mentioned is the Poke-universe a complete different world from ours or simply an alternate universe with Pokemon instead of animal, are all part of the unexplained of the series. Hence there are tons of fan theories and headcanons floating in every Pokemon community.
Well, this kind of vague settings without in-depth background surely delight the fanfic writers, because there exist so much blank spaces where one can freely daydream about. But not everyone is fanfic writers, so that it oppositely makes the non-fanfic-writer ordinary Pokemon fans very frustrating, because the plot holes that exist everywhere arouse doubt and uncertainty, where when such accumulating suspicion become too great, it will just become a dissatisfaction.

I just can't believe, a RPG game having a history of 17 years, yet its world-building is so incomplete having holes more than a Swiss cheese, still not trying to develop a little deeper even up to nowadays, leaving 99% of its in-universe settings to fan speculations and imaginations. On the opposite Game Freak (also The Pokemon Company and Nintendo) never explain these doubts that many fans cared about, just provide the least world-building content necessary enough for its story to run (Well, just get the story to run, sometimes it may not make sense, because there is not enough background information to support the logic behind the story). This is just fre*king crazy for a game under the RPG genre, especially when this JRPG game series is the most well-known series knew by worldwide.
 
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On the point of the unexplained history there have been several mentions within the game series of war. While not much is mentioned beyond "it happened" the idea of a war based on 2 individuals extremely vague opinions (Truth and Ideals) is beyond nonsense. In my RP I developed a character based around the opposition of human idiocy in the Pokemon anime. A Pokemon from the anime who couldn't make sense of the world around him due to there not being a developed history. His role is to represent how well a sensible being from a nonsensical world can adapt to extreme situations in a dangerous, realistic setting.

While writing the OP here I kept thinking of how more ridiculous the Yu-Gi-Oh! series has become. It went from a card game that existed in an alternate world to an alternate world that existed because of a card game. It wouldn't surprise me if in order to get a medical degree in the anime you had to know how to use a deck of doctor-themed cards. :XD:
 
There are some trainer classes like "Teacher" and "Nurse", so I would assume the people that aren't trainer have normal real-life jobs. Of course, the ones that have Pokémon and don't like battling just use them to help in their jobs, but people without Pokémon can live perfectly without them as well.
 
For a long time I've had a head-canon that what we see of the Pokemon world in the games is simply from the perspective of a new trainer, when the Pokemon world is actually no different from our own world, just with superpowered creatures. People who are and aren't trainers have normal jobs that don't relate to Pokemon at all, and are basically like jobs in real life. Being a trainer is entirely optional and not some sort of requirement that the franchise seems to make it out to be, they can go their entire work days without having to mention the "P-word" once.

Now whether real animals exist in the Pokemon world or not, I can go either way with that, but personally I think that not everyone in this world is to be solely obsessed with Pokemon and nothing else, like how more recent games and the anime seem to make out that humans basically cannot live without Pokemon being present, which I think is unrealistic. It's like the rich people who love their dog so much that they take it everywhere they go (ever wonder why Poke Balls even exist? I think this is why), and if humans cannot seem to live without Pokemon, it would be so stupid if humans didn't do anything for themselves as they would end up being like how the humans ended up being in the movie Wall-E where they're nothing but fat, lazy blobs who have robots do all the work for them. I tend to agree with some of the points made by N and Team Plasma in Gen 5 because they believed that humans should learn how to solve their own problems without always having to resort to Pokemon to solve them, because I think that's unrealistic even for the fantasy franchise that Pokemon is.

I mean, if we actually lived in the Pokemon world, you think that everyone is required to be a trainer? No, though it would be cool to be a trainer for a number of reasons, like as a pass time like how people would play sports or go fishing after work, but not everyone has to go on a journey and challenge the league. I mean, I could have an Eevee and record videos of it doing cute things, post it online and become popular, it doesn't have to be a combat-based Pokemon because why should all Pokemon battle or do all the work for people.

As for Pokemon doing all the fighting, I also find that illogical because again, do Pokemon need to be involved in every aspect of life? I mean, weapons can still exist and wars can still happen regardless, after all, Gen 6 has the "Ultimate Weapon" of all things, so if something like an ancient superweapon can exist, why can't guns, swords and missiles exist too, especially since if there were no such thing as swords or bladed weapons, there would be no point in Pokemon like Aegislash existing. Keep in mind that people have used animals as the basis for many inventions, such as airplanes being modeled after birds and such. Really, all that's different here is that the wildlife is super-powered, nothing different.

PiccoloX said:
On the point of the unexplained history there have been several mentions within the game series of war. While not much is mentioned beyond "it happened" the idea of a war based on 2 individuals extremely vague opinions (Truth and Ideals) is beyond nonsense. In my RP I developed a character based around the opposition of human idiocy in the Pokemon anime. A Pokemon from the anime who couldn't make sense of the world around him due to there not being a developed history. His role is to represent how well a sensible being from a nonsensical world can adapt to extreme situations in a dangerous, realistic setting.

While writing the OP here I kept thinking of how more ridiculous the Yu-Gi-Oh! series has become. It went from a card game that existed in an alternate world to an alternate world that existed because of a card game. It wouldn't surprise me if in order to get a medical degree in the anime you had to know how to use a deck of doctor-themed cards. :XD:
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Exactly my point, and this is a problem that's common in many merchandise driven anime (caused by none other than the Pokemon anime's influence on Japanese and Western pop-culture) in which it seems like nobody can live their lives out without this sport because these ridiculous duels decide everything in this universe. One series called "Battle B-Daman" takes this to a logical extreme in which the setting is literally called the "B-da world" and everything is a pun on the titular sport like there's nothing more important than playing a game with tiny metal balls, and the Pokemon franchise is slowly becoming like that.

Here's an example of a world in which such logic would work: In the anime series "No Game No Life", the characters go to a world in which the very laws of physics are dictated by people playing various games with others, moderated by a deity who oversees everything. It works there because it exists in a dimension where the laws of physics work that way, while in Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and other such franchises, it acts like the entire fate of the universe is dictated by all these duels when it really isn't (the Yu-Gi-Oh abridged series constantly mocks the logic of characters deciding on things with a "children's card game"). Does it really have to be like this all the time?
 
I do think people and Pokémon need each other in the Pokémon universe, and here's what I mean:
Pokémon are literally pocket monsters. These monsters often have extreme power and control over the elements, and it's been made clear that some of them are very destructive. For example, Gyarados' and Tyranitar's Pokedex entries mention that they go on extreme rampages and alter entire landscapes. Groudon and Kyogre are prime examples too, since they would have wiped out pretty much every single thing if the Draconids didn't summon Rayquaza to stop their fighting. Humans in general pretty much keep Pokémon from destroying their own environment.
Humans need Pokémon too, although many of them probably don't even have Pokémon as partners. Pokémon are probably used to help assist with activities of daily living, like acting as beast of burden more or less (stuff like Vigoroth and Machoke being used to lift heavy objects). This also brings up why guns don't exist in the Pokémon universe: These monsters are far more powerful. Why have a gun when you can have a predatory dragon that resists fire and electricity, and can fire powerful laser beams or cause earthquakes? Likewise, I'm guessing automobiles, ships, planes, and other forms of transportation exist just because it isn't as socially acceptable, and is probably faster (like how few people ride horses now that we have cars).
So basically, people and Pokémon can't exist in harmony without each other.
 
There was a gun represented in an old Safari Zone episode. It was cut from American broadcasting because...

Pokemon_Gun.jpg

tumblr_maxcj7bO0x1qam20a.jpg

... @#%* just got real!


(You just know his English voice would sound like Clint Eastwood.)
 
It was not only the guns that got banned from the anime. Many other things such as the 'dark' skin of Jynx, the move Earthquake and many tsunami-related water moves, and most importantly PORYGON!!!!!

I understand why those anime episodes should be banned, and why some of those things are offense to someone. But to say it to a more extreme rather bluntly, EVERY SINGLE THING EXISTED IN OUR REAL WORLD could be offensive to someone. That is not only guns and weapons, but even the human themselves. Granted, even the things that didn't existed in our real world, such as the Pokemon themselves and the battles they do, are offensive to many overprotective parents and extremists.

That's why the Pokemon anime, and of course the game it originated from should eliminate every single things that is related to our real world. Not just the guns and weapons, but also the society structure and human culture, the government and any other public administration organization, even the human themselves, and of course emotions and characteristic traits that what makes human to be "human". Just take it, the Poke-human have a complete different build from us, they can resist Thunderbolt and Flamethrower fired by IRL-wise life-threating monster head-on and yet recover the next second. The Poke-human is not the Real-Life-human, hence they don't need to have emotions that is same as us, they don't need to react in the same way as us when they are put under the same situation and condition. Hence there is no need of any Real-Life government/society/finance/history/cultures/politics, including the Real-Life human knowledge/logics/emotions. That's why the Pokemon World is not making sense, because we are trying to interpret it using the knowledge from our Real-Life, but that is not a world making use of Real-Life logics and knowledge.

But of course, such Pokemon World without a single strain of reality is not my headcanon. And do not forget, the Pokemon series was created by Real-Life human brain, that's why we should interpret its world using Real-Life knowledge and logics. Despite that its world may consists of natural physical principle laws completely different from ours, the human is still human, the mental emotion and behavioral science behinds one's action should still be the same.
And hence when one trying to interpret the Pokemon World, specifically the human being in this world using Real-Life psychology knowledges, we will not see much rationale behind one's behaviour. Especially when the background and world settings are incomplete and vague, such irrationality just magnified.


......BTW, isn't this thread about the game series rather than the anime? Well, if the OP wanted to include the anime as well for discussion, I'll gladly continue.
 
クリスタル said:
That's why the Pokemon anime, and of course the game it originated from should eliminate every single things that is related to our real world. Not just the guns and weapons, but also the society structure and human culture, the government and any other public administration organization, even the human themselves, and of course emotions and characteristic traits that what makes human to be "human". Just take it, the Poke-human have a complete different build from us, they can resist Thunderbolt and Flamethrower fired by IRL-wise life-threating monster head-on and yet recover the next second. The Poke-human is not the Real-Life-human, hence they don't need to have emotions that is same as us, they don't need to react in the same way as us when they are put under the same situation and condition. Hence there is no need of any Real-Life government/society/finance/history/cultures/politics, including the Real-Life human knowledge/logics/emotions. That's why the Pokemon World is not making sense, because we are trying to interpret it using the knowledge from our Real-Life, but that is not a world making use of Real-Life logics and knowledge.

But of course, such Pokemon World without a single strain of reality is not my headcanon. And do not forget, the Pokemon series was created by Real-Life human brain, that's why we should interpret its world using Real-Life knowledge and logics. Despite that its world may consists of natural physical principle laws completely different from ours, the human is still human, the mental emotion and behavioral science behinds one's action should still be the same.
And hence when one trying to interpret the Pokemon World, specifically the human being in this world using Real-Life psychology knowledges, we will not see much rationale behind one's behaviour. Especially when the background and world settings are incomplete and vague, such irrationality just magnified.
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This.

I think there's one major thing that people always forget whenever they delve into a fictional universe: it's fantasy. By its nature, it's not going to work the same way as our reality does, but it will have familiar elements that the audience will be able to relate to... things like humans, cities, shops, currency. Severing ties with the reality it's based off of isn't impossible, but explaining it all would require a lot of lore, and from what I understand, Pokemon was not intended to have that kind of backstory or complexity. Heck, even when you create something completely original, you still have to describe it in ways that the audience will be able to understand, through analogies or smilies. And if you don't, they'll still try to understand by comparing it to stuff they know and interpret it on their own.

Still, while similarities and familiar elements are unavoidable, the very existence of Pokemon ought to make it obvious that their world is NOT a parallel to ours at all. If you try to understand them by viewing them in a logical perspective, they're preposterous and irrational, for all the reasons posted in the quote above. If this is the kind of world where a living pitcher plant can get burnt to a crisp by a giant fire moth and not die, I'd say a lot of the other strange aspects of the world are probably justified. I just want to know why people get mad over, say, the Hoenn region not being a perfect representation of Kyushu while simply ignoring the fact that Pokemon themselves are incredibly irrational and don't behave just like real-life creatures (the kind that would probably die after taking a HyperBeam to the face).
 
BlackOsprey, thank you for reminding me one thing I forget to put in my previous post. (I was actually meant to be sarcastic......)

For a fictional works set in a distanced world having fantasy background, it is already a natural response from the audience which is to look for something relatable to our real-world. If the geography is nothing similar, then one will related themselves to the human characters. If there is no human characters, then it is expected the humanoid characters will possess human-quality and human natures. If no humanoid characters, then at the very least having personified mindsets and mentalities.

If a fictional work possess completely nothing relatable to our real-world, the story and world settings will just confuse the audience, as one cannot interpret the story and the logic behind the plot using any of the real-life knowledges and rationale.

So you can't blame the audience for viewing the Poke-world human in the same way as real-life human, hoping the human characters be mortal like us, act/think like us, and possess other human-quality and human nature just like a real-life human, as that is a natural reaction from any audience (including myself).
Yes, I expected the Poke-world human will have desires, intellectuality and mentality like a real-life human being but not a wild animal; I expected that it is natural where Poke-human always trying to achieve something better if one is competing just like real-life-human; I expected that Poke-human possess moral and ethics which gives one sentiment of shame where that is something animal doesn't possess; I expected that urbanized Poke-human are also generally driven by profits and benefits just like our urbanized real-life human, etc. I expected many of the philosophy theories describing human nature of our real-world are also applicable to work in the Pokemon world as well.


Unless, if the canon stated clearly that the human characters are not the same kind of human being from our world (e.g. Goku of Dragonball is Saiyan, a kind of extraterrestrial human being not born on Earth), then we as the audience will not related ourselves to such human characters, and we will not expect he/she will act/think in the same way as us.
 
Considering that there are vehicles, machines and buildings, there are probably builders, laborers and other non-pokemon related occupations in the world.

And before y'all say that "they're pokemon related because they work with pokemon", I should clarify that they're non-pokemon related in the sense that their job does not directly involve using pokemon in battling (which appears to be the dominant use of pokemon).

By analogy, someone who works at a factory assembling firearms is not in a firearms-associated job in the same way that say, an infantryman or a professional hunter is. Contact with =/= equal related.
 
If we consider trainer classes, the following jobs/hobbies exist in the Pokémon world:

Riding bikes
Catching bugs
Engineer
Gambling
Hiker
Fisher
Juggler
Sailor
Scientist
Swimming
Fire Breather
Interviewer
Ruin exploring
Triathlete
Artist
Camera Man
Clown
Cyclist
Cow Girl
Jogger
Policeman
Rancher
Reporter
Waiter/Waitress
Clerk
Dancer
Baker
Depot Agent
Doctor/Nurse
Football player
American Soccer player
Basketball player
Tennis player
Baseball player
Janitor
Musician
Nursery Aide
Pilot
Movie actor
Butler
Garçon
Gardener
Pokémon Professor
Teacher

I would say that's enough things to do if you don't like Pokémon.
 
Please note: The thread is from 10 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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