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Pokémon 2000 on the timeline?

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AbsoluTotodile

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I'm hoping this is where a topic about a potential error on Bulbapedia in relation to the anime would go.

Under "Trivia" on the Pokémon 2000 page, a point is made about the movie's position on the timeline. It is stated that...

If this movie is counted as part of the anime timeline, it must take place after Charizard Chills because Ash's Charizard obeys him in the movie and before Viva Las Lapras, because Ash still has Lapras.
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However my view is that the movie actually takes place BEFORE Charizard Chills. I have two reasons to believe this.

Firstly, in the opening to the film while the theme song plays and they're releasing their Pokémon, Ash releases Charizard and it shoots flames everywhere in an angry and rebellious manner. Yes Charizard does obey Ash later and help him to get to Ice (I believe) Island. But it is stated in the movie that Pokémon are traveling towards the islands because they think they might be able to help somehow. Charizard would feel this desire to help as well. Of course he'd also want to show off and be a hero to boost his opinion of himself further.

Secondly, by looking at the Orange Islands map we can estimate where Ash and his friends were. Cleopatra Island (Where Charizard Chills takes place) is east of Shamouti Island. If this movie takes place before Charizard Chills, they would have been heading towards Cleopatra Island from the south (Trovita Island area), and been "thrown way off course" towards Shamouti Island. If the movie takes place after Charizard Chills...well they were heading north east from Cleopatra Island towards Ascorbia Island (The Pokémon Water War). So they were heading even further away from Shamouti Island...Sure, it was stated that they were way off course...but that's WAAAAAAY off course.

So what does everyone else think? That's just how I see Pokémon 2000 fitting in with the episodes, but does anyone else agree with me?
 
Charizard also obeyed during the first movie, looooong before it "learned" to.

Also, movie 2 has to be "counted as part of the anime timeline" because it's refered to in Johto.
 
I swear we're getting too "politically canon correct" on Pedia. Pikachu's a guy, 99% probability. All of the movies happened, or else every FILLER EPISODE didn't happen either. How many times has AJ been referenced? Or Samurai? Or anyone Ash ran into anywhere?
 
In Japan, the movie was released theatrically on the weekend between "Pikachu vs. Nyasu!?" ("Bound for Trouble") and "Lizardon! I Choose You!" ("Charizard Chills"). So that's where I'd place it.
 
Blackjack Palazzo said:
Charizard also obeyed during the first movie, looooong before it "learned" to.
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Not really, Ash's line, "I didn't say go," to Charizard when it went to battle meant it was still disobedient.

Charizard battled because it wanted to fight, not because it listened to Ash.
 
Dogasu said:
In Japan, the movie was released theatrically on the weekend between "Pikachu vs. Nyasu!?" ("Bound for Trouble") and "Lizardon! I Choose You!" ("Charizard Chills"). So that's where I'd place it.
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In that case, it's easy enough to just move it around one episode back and say it was after Lizardon was obeying him.

I don't think that's really a huge deal, though. At least, I never read that much into Lizardon's role in film.
 
Pikachu's a guy, 99% probability
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This might be off topic, but I agree on that. Buneary had a crush on pikachu, and Dawn has dressed it up in a dress (I saw a pic) so bunearies probably female, or has a complex.
 
I just watched the second movie and i think charizard is on ash's side already because at the end where ash is scared to be 'the chosen one' all his pokemon come out and cheer him on...charizard included....ash asks them 'you think i can do it?' and they all, including charizard nod to their trainer in an emotional moment.
 
Charizard did do everything Ash asked it to in the second movie.

It was always obvious it took place after the ep where Charizard started obeying him.
 
Chosen of Mana said:
It could also be the case that Charizard recognized the direness of the situation and that he HAD to obey Ash.

Just sayin. ._.
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As I already said, there is a scene late in Movie 2 where Ash is scared of the pressure of being the 'chosen one' and all of his pokemon let themselves out of their pokeballs just to show their support for their trainer.

Ash is emotional when he sees their support and asks something to the effect of, 'you all think I can do it too?' and they all compassionately nod, including charizard.

its clear he is on Ash's side and isn't simply the direness of the situation IMO.
 
He was puking fire all over the place on the boat in the beginning, and acting like the asshole he was at the time.

Yeah, I've always taken this movie to be set before he started obeying. The movie does state that pokemon from all over the world are flocking to the area just in case there might be something they can do to help, Lizardon helping out falls under that.
 
So I can take it that there are no arguments against the canonicity of any of the movies and that they're all just hour-and-a-half fillers for the most part?
 
Adamant said:
He was puking fire all over the place on the boat in the beginning, and acting like the asshole he was at the time.

Yeah, I've always taken this movie to be set before he started obeying. The movie does state that pokemon from all over the world are flocking to the area just in case there might be something they can do to help, Lizardon helping out falls under that.
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disagree. it was shooting flames on the boat but it never directed them towards ash like it normally did when it didnt obey him.
 
Yeah, I always took Charizard spewing fire at the start to be indication this was pre-Charizard Chills. If it were after that, don't you think Ash would have asked Charziard to cool it down (heh, overused puns) and Charizard would respectfully agree to do so? Instead, Ash and Misty freak out and immediately recall it to its ball.

TTEchidna said:
So I can take it that there are no arguments against the canonicity of any of the movies and that they're all just hour-and-a-half fillers for the most part?
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Oh, there are arguements. I can't fathom why, but there are. '_'
 
Legacy said:
disagree. it was shooting flames on the boat but it never directed them towards ash like it normally did when it didnt obey him.
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True. You'll notice when Charizard is breathing fire at the beginning, he looks happy. When he spit flames to be disobedient he always looked ticked off and annoyed. I think Charizard was just glad to be out in the fresh air and got carried away.

I also place this movie after Charizard Chills.
 
Lil Brother said:
Yeah, I always took Charizard spewing fire at the start to be indication this was pre-Charizard Chills. If it were after that, don't you think Ash would have asked Charziard to cool it down (heh, overused puns) and Charizard would respectfully agree to do so? Instead, Ash and Misty freak out and immediately recall it to its ball.

Oh, there are arguements. I can't fathom why, but there are. '_'
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no, i don't think ash would have asked charizard to cool it because it was during the opening credits music montage and there was no dialog, only the 'we all live in a pokemon world' song.


as you can see, (click pic to see it bigger) charizard is simply throwing flames into the air and even seems to have a happy look on its face. in every instance before 'Charizard chills' charizard spews flame in ash's face. ash and misty are just taking cover because charizard is being frisky...but not malicious.
 
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Legacy said:
no, i don't think ash would have asked charizard to cool it because it was during the opening credits music montage and there was no dialog, only the 'we all live in a pokemon world' song.
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He wouldn't have had to actually say it, a hand gesture could have been used to show him telling Charizard to settle down. Also it seems a bit odd to animate him with a trait he had pre-obeying so close to the episode in which he starts to obey (regardless of the smug look on his face). He could have been flying along side the boat or anything really...but instead he was spewing flames and got immediately recalled.

I still see this movie as taking place before Charizard Chills. I do see both sides here though...and I reckon it can't be said for certain (other than from the mouths of the writers and animators themselves) whether this episode is pre- or post- Charizard Chills.
 
The only thing in defense of the other view is that even once Charizard chilled, it would still shoot flames due to excitement or habit or something, and often burned Ash in the process. It'd be unintentional.

Though this was excessive, and he did act very reckless.

I'd actually agree that this is before "Charizard Chills" as well. Charizard's always been inclined to obey Ash when it suited HIM. He may've been a tool, but he still has values.
----

And to a few of you: Just because you say something's "obvious", doesn't make it so.
 
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