Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

[DCM]

(please note, this thread has nothing to do with PokeSav, which is blatant hacking)

Pokemon hacking has long been a shamed upon subject of this forum, typically bringing ridicule and scorn, as well as a locked thread. Why?
As a player of the Metagame, i understand how frustrating it can be when you battle a Wonderguard Sableye, or a Shiny Heracross with perfect IV's and 9999 stats. I realize that once you hack in a pokemon game, that game can never compete within an official Nintendo tournament.
But Those are the extreme examples of hacking, where as some of the tamer examples are ignored. Tamer examples of hacking include the TM hack, where you obtain 99 of all TM's, and a copy of all HM's, the max money hack, where as the name states, your money is maxed out, to hacking for the Azure Flute as to complete your national dex. These examples are commonly overlooked when bashing hacking, yet many players do so anyways (its referred to as legal hacking)

please note that all text below this is refferring to the tamer hacking, not the wild version.

Which brings us to the real topic of this thread. Why is it wrong to hack a pokemon game? If you play pokemon purely for the in-game moments, purely for the story, what is wrong with hacking pokemon? If you find it more enjoyable to not have to worry about battling trainers for money, or being wise about how you use your money, then what is business of ours is it to tell you otherwise?
As long as you do not trade your hacked pokemon with/to us, or battle your hacked pokemon against us, its not my job to tell you how to play your game.

So, riddle me this bulbagarden.

1) Why are members whom ask about Action Replay Codes for say, getting all the TM's, flamed, yet that is referred to as legal hacking?
2) Why are you telling people how to play the game? if they want to play exclusively in-game, then its no business of yours whether they use cheat codes or not, as long as they know the consequences.
3)Why is the hacking mentioned above (in-game, no meta-game) wrong?

Please, do not answer with just "hacking is wrong".
give me a rason why that hacking is wrong.

~DCM

 

[Peri]

Many people take stance that by hacking for things like Arceus, event-exclusives, you make Ninetendo lose money they would make on those events, and as such it's illegal. I'm not going into this part of discussion, as talking whether Ninetendo is greedy about such things or not is dangerous.

I don't think hacking in just for yourself a few things is all that bad. If you screw up someone's game, it's yours. I have a few illegitimate things, but I'd never use them against real players - because I know it's not fair. However, when the Battle Tower is exploiting my every weakness, I feel cheated - so why should I not cheat it? As long as it's my own game, without impacting yours, it shouldn't really matter for anyone else.

 

[DCM]

Many people take stance that by hacking for things like Arceus, event-exclusives, you make Ninetendo lose money they would make on those events, and as such it's illegal. I'm not going into this part of discussion, as talking whether Ninetendo is greedy about such things or not is dangerous.
[/Spoiler]
Of course, when you consider that the majority of the events are not in convenient locations, and you would have to travel miles to get to some Toys-R-Us and gamestops, isnt hacking using the Action replay a more much attractive option?

Spoiler

I don't think hacking in just for yourself a few things is all that bad. If you screw up someone's game, it's yours. I have a few illegitimate things, but I'd never use them against real players - because I know it's not fair. However, when the Battle Tower is exploiting my every weakness, I feel cheated - so why should I not cheat it? As long as it's my own game, without impacting yours, it shouldn't really matter for anyone else.

Spoiler

Not the best way to put it, but sure. if you feel hacking is the only way you can beat battle tower, as long as you dont battle or trade with those pokemon, thats none of my business.

 

[DerMißingno]

It's not wrong. I don't think I've ever flamed anyone for asking for AR codes, but this is how I look at it.

There is nothing wrong with hacking, but I'm not going to help you do it. If someone asks for help, then it is up to the people that he asks to actually provide that help. If I don't want to help you cheat, then I'm not going to.

Besides, isn't it easy enough just to search Google for AR codes?

 

[Venom]

I think the problem that this forum has with the tamer hacking is that it doesn’t always stay in game. You say what is the harm in unlimited TM’s? I say that's fine if the trainer doesn’t ever trade or battle but eventually they will trade and they will battle, then we who don’t hack are at a disadvantage. Who would want my normal pokemon with standard moves when someone else can give them one loaded with rare TM moves? Or they beat my pokemon in battle because they could afford to buy vitamins or rare items?

 

[DCM]

I think the problem that this forum has with the tamer hacking is that it doesn’t always stay in game. You say what is the harm in unlimited TM’s? I say that's fine if the trainer doesn’t ever trade or battle but eventually they will trade and they will battle, then we who don’t hack are at a disadvantage. Who would want my normal pokemon with standard moves when someone else can give them one loaded with rare TM moves? Or they beat my pokemon in battle because they could afford to buy vitamins or rare items?

well, there are players, many of which reside on this forum, that choose not to battle, because they dont like the metagame. What I'm saying is why should we attack them for using an action replay when it doesnt affect us in the slightest?

Besides, isn't it easy enough just to search Google for AR codes?

reliability of the codes. Entire games have been lost because someone entered in and used a code that deleted their game, despite being told that it was one that simply allowed you to have max money.

 

[Mijzelffan]

1) because they start entire threads for it, while have a simple questions thread (for asking things like where can I get codes). Plus if they'd try harder they'd find them on google in no time.

2) that one does not apply to me.

3) because AR's were not made by nintendo/ GameFreak. If they were I'd have nothing against it.

 

[DerMißingno]

reliability of the codes. Entire games have been lost because someone entered in and used a code that deleted their game, despite being told that it was one that simply allowed you to have max money.

Hahaa, serves them right. If they really think that Pokemon too hard to beat without cheating... Well I won't finish that sentence.

But yeah, if you come to a board where people are pretty serious business about pokemon and ask for ways to cheat, common sense says there's no reason not to expect to get flamed. I'll help someone who has a stupid question if they put it in the simple questions thread, but definitely not someone who's trying to cheat. Do I care if they do it or not in the end? Of course not.

 

[DCM]

1) because they start entire threads for it, while have a simple questions thread (for asking things like where can I get codes). Plus if they'd try harder they'd find them on google in no time.

but questions like that come up all the time, ones that should be in Simple Questions and answers, but why is hacking treated with such scorn?

3) because AR's were not made by nintendo/ GameFreak. If they were I'd have nothing against it.

Nor was Shoddy Battle, nor bulbapedia, which is essentially the pokemon guides, un-authorized on the internet. but those are fine?

Hahaa, serves them right. If they really think that Pokemon too hard to beat without cheating... Well I won't finish that sentence.

But yeah, if you come to a board where people are pretty serious business about pokemon and ask for ways to cheat, common sense says there's no reason not to expect to get flamed. I'll help someone who has a stupid question if they put it in the simple questions thread, but definitely not someone who's trying to cheat. Do I care if they do it or not in the end? Of course not.

thats exactly the wrong answer to this. This site was not created for pokemon battling, it was created for fans of pokemon. how they play the game is their business. Until the day Bulbapedia starts showing Analysis and has their own tiers, then hacking is just another way of playing, albeit one that is frowned upon, then why should non competitive hacking be attacked? after all, here its just a game.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

I don't care when people hack, it just annoys me when they have to max out the Pokemon's stats and make every fucking thing shiny then it makes it so obvious. At least if you're going to extremely hack, don't make it obvious. Other than that I really don't see a problem with hacking as I've hacked many times for the 99x TMs.

 

[DerMißingno]

thats exactly the wrong answer to this. This site was not created for pokemon battling, it was created for fans of pokemon. how they play the game is their business. Until the day Bulbapedia starts showing Analysis and has their own tiers, then hacking is just another way of playing, albeit one that is frowned upon, then why should non competitive hacking be attacked? after all, here its just a game.

I didn't say anything about competitive battling.

Like I said, people come here asking for help with cheating. People can choose to either help them or not help them. Most people (myself included) choose not to help them. What is your problem with this?

And yeah, try to tell me that Pokemon is a difficult game to beat without cheating, and I'll kind of laugh a little bit. Maybe the battle frontier or completing the pokedex is a bit of a challenge, but I still fail to see the argument that some people need to cheat.

Also like I said, I don't care if people cheat in their own games. I'm just not going to help them do it, especially since most of the requests are just stupid "AR codez plz" threads that could go in simple questions.

 

[DCM]

I didn't say anything about competitive battling.

Like I said, people come here asking for help with cheating. People can choose to either help them or not help them. Most people (myself included) choose not to help them. What is your problem with this?

Thats not my issue. you can ignore it all you want, thats fine. search through a couple of AR threads, they tend to get flamed.

And yeah, try to tell me that Pokemon is a difficult game to beat without cheating, and I'll kind of laugh a little bit. Maybe the battle frontier or completing the pokedex is a bit of a challenge, but I still fail to see the argument that some people need to cheat.

Situation: say Red restarts his Pokemon game. he wants to get right to the battle frontier and Elite Four, but finds the eight gym leaders tedious. IS it wrong for him to use an AR to skip through the game?

 

[DerMißingno]

Thats not my issue. you can ignore it all you want, thats fine. search through a couple of AR threads, they tend to get flamed.

People are ass holes, what can I say. This isn't the only thing they're ass holes about.

Situation: say Red restarts his Pokemon game. he wants to get right to the battle frontier and Elite Four, but finds the eight gym leaders tedious. IS it wrong for him to use an AR to skip through the game?

Like I said, I don't care if people cheat on their game. Red can use the gym leader skip code all he wants, but if he asks for it here I'm not going to help him. Quite frankly, I'll have no sympathy if he gets flamed if he starts his own thread instead of going to the Simple Questions thread anyway.

Besides, this is different from what you were describing before. Red is cheating because he's lazy, not because he can't do it. If someone's like "OMG the E4 is 2 hard i need to cheat," then I'll lol if they erase their game in the process.

 

[snorlax255]

I havent ben a member of this forum long, but all the post I've seen about hacking are like this.

Is it ok to hack event pokemon?

No, its cheating. If your not gonna use it agenst other people then its your game, do what you want...

Stuff like that

 

[Mijzelffan]

Nor was Shoddy Battle, nor bulbapedia, which is essentially the pokemon guides, un-authorized on the internet. but those are fine?

Yes. They don't mess with game coding, and are thus perfectly legal. I forgot to mention that by the way: changing gamecodes of something copyrighted without permission is illegal. And we on these forums don't support illegal stuff, so that's why most people look down on ARs.

 

[Soulweaver]

No. I despise every aspect of hacking except cloning and Secret ID lookup. I do a lot of trading in GTS and I'm tired of getting blatantly fake Pokémon. I'm getting more used to legendaries being hacked, but nothing can make me angrier than this very lame Dex filling and hack Pokémon dumping at the GTS. I'm referring to a hacked German Anorith which was caught on an early Sinnoh route at Lv. 2 with a Master Ball.

 

[DerMißingno]

No. I despise every aspect of hacking except cloning and Secret ID lookup. I do a lot of trading in GTS and I'm tired of getting blatantly fake Pokémon. I'm getting more used to legendaries being hacked, but nothing can make me angrier than this very lame Dex filling and hack Pokémon dumping at the GTS. I'm referring to a hacked German Anorith which was caught on an early Sinnoh route at Lv. 2 with a Master Ball.

I feel you. I don't use the GTS much, but once I traded for a Gliscor, caught at the Elite 4 at level 69 in a master ball. Wow. Released the motherfucker on the spot.

I have to ask though, why are cloning and SID lookup exempt?

 

[Soulweaver]

I feel you. I don't use the GTS much, but once I traded for a Gliscor, caught at the Elite 4 at level 69 in a master ball. Wow. Released the motherfucker on the spot.

I have to ask though, why are cloning and SID lookup exempt?

Well, I see the cloning as a tool to make especially the distribution of special event Pokémon more democratic. I don't want to pay a thousand Euros to fly to Japan to just see a movie and get an Eigakan Arceus. In fact, I doubt Finland's still getting any events other than the Wi-Fi ones.

As for SID lookup, I don't feel that number should be so secret. Sure, it's a vital part of e.g. finding easy shinies, but the encountered shinies still have natural stats.

 

[DerMißingno]

Well, I see the cloning as a tool to make especially the distribution of special event Pokémon more democratic. I don't want to pay a thousand Euros to fly to Japan just see a movie and get an Eigakan Arceus. In fact, I doubt Finland's rtill getting any events other than the Wi-Fi ones.

As for SID lookup, I don't feel that number should be so secret. Sure, it's a vital part of e.g. Finding easy shinies, but the encountered shinies still have natural stats.

True, but you're still hacking the game's code and making things happen that shouldn't. If Nintendo wanted it like that, don't you think they'd make it part of the game? (just playing devil's advocate here)

 

[H-con]

I don't like cloning or hacking. I haven't looked up my SID either, maybe I'll do that, but I'm not too sure if I really want too do it. Rarely use the GTS.

I'm against hacking and such. Still, one most do what oneself think is right. If you think that hacking an event-exclusive item (like the tickets in gen III) is fair because you weren't able to attend the events, that's fine for me, though I don't really like it. If you use an AR or something to get 31 IVs in everything, you've crossed the line way back.