Pokemon Movies Full Screen and Widescreen Discussion (56k Warning!)

[Hikari-chan]

This topic like totally getting talked about lately, so we should talk about it instead the Movie 8 Thread

More comparisions comming soon.

Destiny Deoxys

Identification Card Picture Taking

4:3 without widescreen stretching

16:9

Minun and Plusle
4:3

16:9

Lucario and the Mystery of Mew
Sources: American Version of Lucario and Japanese/Austrian Release of Lucario in Widescreen

Haruka/May saying "That guy a girl?" after Kid Summers reveal herself e

4:3 on HDTV or Widescreen Monitor

16:9

Why Fullscreen is bad?
Fullscreen may show the whole image on a 4:3 TV, but it's a disavantage to 16:9 computer monitors and HDTVs

Fullscreen copies loses 45% of the image of the widescreen copy and you lose the ability to see what happen on the side of the widescreen copy.

Resources
Resources on Pan and Scan and Widescreen

http://www.widescreen.org/examples.shtml

http://plum.cream.org/HP/poa.htm

 

[Habunake]

Hey, could you post the scene in Movie 7 wheir they first see Plusle and Minun and May says how cute they are? In the Fullscreen, you can't even see them their!

 

[The Mysterious Blue Hiker]

Some "pan and scan" efforts are better than others, but in any case widescreen is definitely preferable.

For some movies cropping them doesn't hurt that much, but I don't think the Pokémon movies were really designed with 4:3 in mind. You lose a fair bit of detail.

Apparently the main reason all the R1 releases of the Pokémon movies have been pan and scan is because little kids don't like the black bars that you get when playing widescreen on a 4:3 TV; even then I'm not sure why they bother, given that widescreen TVs will be standard in the future.

 

[nYoo]

I like:
- Widescreen
- Fullscreen

I don't like:
- Widescreen cropped to Fullscreen
- Pseudo-Widescreen: A widescreen video that was resized to and saved as 4:3 resolution with the black bars saved, too (I have nothing against black bars, but don't save them! >:O every display device can do that job itself with a real widescreen picture!) (Even though I don't like this, it's still better than "Widescreen cropped to Fullscreen")

 

[The Power of Pika]

Though they can zoom in with the zoom button on the remote to get rid of the bars if they don't like them. It's not that hard to do. I use to do it all the time until I realised that there were details I missed. =P

One thing that bugged me about the American 7th movie in full screen was when Munchlax scratched himself and from squinting at the edge of the screen I think there was dirt or something that came out of his fur. The fact it was full screen made it hard to see since it was right at the edge of the screen.

I'm glad Australia got the 8th movie in widescreen anyway.

 

[Hikari-chan]

Movie 7: Minun and Plusle
Sources: American Release and Japanese Widescreen Release (all Japanese versions are widescreen)
4:3

16:9

Where Minun and Plusle?

 

[Hikari-chan]

I like:
- Widescreen
- Fullscreen

I don't like:
- Widescreen cropped to Fullscreen
- Pseudo-Widescreen: A widescreen video that was resized to and saved as 4:3 resolution with the black bars saved, too (I have nothing against black bars, but don't save them! >:O every display device can do that job itself with a real widescreen picture!) (Even though I don't like this, it's still better than "Widescreen cropped to Fullscreen")

Pararoma mode is another problem, you might get the widescreen experience, but you still missing action... it's like totally watching LOTR with Pararoma mode on....

Fullscreen is basicly cropping of Widescreen.

Fullscreen isn't good either since you get windowboxing if you don't have 16:9 streching mode on and if you strech it, the picture will strech the body and make them took fatter and shorter.

 

[nYoo]

Fullscreen is basicly cropping of Widescreen.

With "Fullscreen" I meant something that was actually produced as Fullscreen. That's why I mentioned "Widescreen cropped too Fullscreen" seperately.

Here are three additional examples of the three usual ways also with the scene where Satoshi-tachi arrive in Larousse (from my Japanese DVD) as it is a pretty good scene for example purposes:

Widescreen

Cropped to Fullscreen

Resized to Fullscreen (I don't like when it is saved like this. I prefer things being saved as real widescreen, but this is still better than cropped o.op)

 

[Hikari-chan]

Cropped to Full Screen looks identical to the Full Screen release of Movie 7, which totally could mean that they like only crop from the widescreen copy.

 

[Nomekop Oen]

One version gives you the complete picture.

One doesn't.


How is this even a debate? Fullscreen editions are only conventional if people own TVs with screens that are 19" inches or smaller.Other than that,most people should be able to enjoy a widescreen presentation on any other TV.


What I don't understand is why studios decided to produce 2 separate editions for every movie.Is it actually cheaper to make 2 different DVDs for each movie instead of adding a Fullscreen/Widescreen option onto a single DVD?

 

[Hikari-chan]

The debate is which is better, Fullscreen or Widescreen and why can't we get widescreen copies...

it should be Widescreen and Full screen Discussion instead

Movie 8 Continued:

Pikachu and Mew dancing while Conbusken, Corphish, Phampy, and Squirtle playing on the balls.
4:3

16:9

 

[nYoo]

What I don't understand is why studios decided to produce 2 separate editions for every movie.Is it actually cheaper to make 2 different DVDs for each movie instead of adding a Fullscreen/Widescreen option onto a single DVD?

I can't imagine that making two DVDs would be cheaper. o.o"
Also, I have seen this thing with two different editions of DVD only in USA so far.
Here they usually just release a film als widescreen as far as I know.

A DVD player can resize the film to the TV's screen width and for people who like fullscreen without the black borders and who don't feel bothered about not seeing the full picture, the DVD player can do that too. I think it's called "pan and scan" or so.
I haven't heard of DVD players that can't do those two things so I think fullscreen DVDs of movies that were originally widescreen are pointless. o.o

 

[Argy]

I usually notice that the top-selling DVDs in the U.S. are the fullscreen versions of movies.

 

[Habunake]

It's apathy.

 

[PDUTogepi]

I just don't see why they can't just have both a fullscreen and widescreen option, then everyone is happy X__X
Now since getting the American releases the full screen thing actually never bothered me cos I never realized they cropped it like that, that is, UNTIL a friend of mine noticed the Plusle and Minun bit the 7th movie, we were wondering why it was like that until I remembered about reading somewhere about movies being full screen and realized that was the cause and it does bug me that they were refering to something we couldn't even see because they were cropped off, in fact I seem to remember on my first viewing of the movie I was all "Plusle and Minun...?*looks*...where are they?" cos it felt like I should see them in that scene, like they were supposed to be seen.

So yeah, that part did bug me, but the rest of the time you don't really notice it and doesn't ruin the movie, but again, they should just put fullscreen and widescreen options on the DVD, then everyone is peachy happy.

 

[Birdyspot]

Boo fullscreen cropping! Hooray widescreen!

First of all: Amen, Nomekop Oen.

Shooting animated films is a much different process than shooting live-action films, of course. Because motion in a cel-animated film is not composed in real/screen time (i.e. an artist spends more time drawing each frame than that frame will appear onscreen), we more readily recognize subjectivity (the human artist's hand) in the animated work, where we also have a tendency to view live-action cinema as more "real" and "objective" because motion is captured by an unfeeling, mechanical device (rightly or wrongly, depending on your favorite film theorist).

Walter Benjamin wrote of what he called "aura" in works of literature and art, etc. It's a lot more complicated than this, but for my point's sake: aura means that the artist's hand, the artist's humanity, and the artist's subjectivity can be seen/felt in a painting, for example. The world seen in the painting is mediated very subjectively through one human being's perspective and skill. Benjamin didn't much care for aura, and was struck by film's ability to be aura-less (strictly objective; although that point is highly debatable)--but he was calling for filmmakers to use film toward the ends of social justice, and animated film lie outside the scope of that agenda.

However, I happen to enjoy the aura to be found in animated cinema, especially cel animation. There is something magical in knowing that the artists' (even the tweeners') hands mediate every motion and emotion--and one marvels at the acute level of observation to detail that animators and background artists must possess. And they compose their work being mindful of a certain canvas space, whether it's 4:3 for TV screen or 16:9 for theater screen--anyone who's studied the visual arts knows the all-importance of composition!

Therefore, I find it far more offensive for a widescreen animated film to be cropped down to fullscreen to please an ignorant audience (and I'm not giving that a negative connotation, just saying it straight up). I can watch live-action films in cropped fullscreen (although I DO DESPISE fullscreen-cropping in general)...but dub Pokemon movies on video? UGH. It's bad enough that we don't get the original Japanese audio outside of Region 2 on DVD, but butchering the film itself visually is adding insult to injury. :banghead:

The dub movie DVD cuts have fared better than the VHS cuts, however--the DVD cuts use pan-and-scan to pick the "important" parts out of the widescreen frame to show, but the three VHS versions I've seen lazily leave the fullscreen frame static in the middle of the widescreen canvas for the entire film. They might have implemented pan-and-scan for the Miramax-released VHSs--I only own the DVDs for those so I don't know. But the first three movies, released by Warner Bros., look positively AWFUL on VHS. Things are off-screen everywhere when they're supposed to be on-screen. Balanced horizontal compositions are destroyed. Jump cuts are created. Mass confusion ensues. ("Mommy, where's that voice coming from??")

If I get a chance, I'll make some mock-ups of widescreen shots and the VHS-DVD fullscreen discrepancy in the dub versions, to add examples to this thread or to the debate at large for anyone who's not convinced.

Mmmkay. Shutting up now. :ksmile:
</film degree>

 

[Hikari-chan]

Didn't they totally have widescreen pre-2000?

Movie 5 picture quality is like totally horrible, it was in full screen, but worse... blue tint.... which annoys me alot...

Heres a comparison of Movie 5, Widescreen vs Fullscreen. The fullscreen copy cut off the body of Ash and someone I totally don't know the name to. =/

Movie 5: Pokémon Heroes
Sources: Orginal Japanese Version (the American version has too much blue tint and it's full screen)
4:3

16:9

 

[Habunake]

Movie 5 had a sucky American version, the color was screwed.

 

[Doctor Oak]

Was like that in the PAL release too.

 

[Lil Brother]

I actually liked the blue tint until I found out it was a change.

...o.o