Pokemon Obedience

[whitekeys]

Hi everyone,

I have been trying to figure out why wild pokemon who are captured obey their new masters more-or-less immediately? They are not obedient to the letter, per se, but they seem to immediately accept the fact that they've been captured and join the "team" with no fuss.

For example, the first Caterpie that Ash catches in the anime at first disobey's Ash's command to climb onto his shoulder, and instead goes over to Misty. But when Ash gives the command a second time, Caterpie is perfectly obedient. Then it makes friends with everyone and never attempts to go back to its wild life. Same with Pidgeotto. Ash catches it, and before he even has a chance to talk to it or prove his respect/love for the pokemon, he uses it in battle and it follows his commands.

As another hypothetical, if I were to catch a Spearow, and then let it out of its poke ball, why wouldn't it just fly away?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Gengarzilla]

I think there's some sort of respect going on here. Remember that Ash actually had to put in some work to catch the Pidgeotto, Caterpie was just caught off the bat without any battle. I'd say Caterpie was only wanting to be friendly with Misty that one time anyway.

If you're able to weaken a wild Pokémon enough to stick a capture, then it's a sign that you, the trainer, are doing something right. I assume that this is what they pick up on.

 

[Sakuraa]

Well, from the game perspective it's a kind of obvious. If your Pokemon didn't listen to you right away it would take forever to complete the games

Lol, but seriously, this is one of the aspects of the Pokemon world that I do tend to think about frequently. I too find it a bit strange that a Pokemon that's lived its entire life in the wild will just give it all up with no issues to follow the orders of a random person, simply because they happened to catch it.

I guess I have to agree with the above post when taking the anime into perspective. If a trainer is strong enough to weaken a Pokemon to the point of capture, the Pokemon then respects that person and will obey their commands. That said though, I do wish the anime would have had plots with Pokemon who didn't immediately accept their new life upon capture. I think that could have made for quite an interesting story arc.

 

[Daren]

Didn't one of the games claim that any wild Pokémon that attacks you instead of hiding is interested in having a trainer? I thought I remember seeing that in an in-game book somewhere. If so, it makes sense; if you capture it you passed their requirements.
Even if it's not stated I think it's decent headcanon.

I guess it's never really bothered me since I've played video games where human characters get beaten up by you and than they join you with no loyalty problems.

 

[Esserise]

Well there are a couple of answers. I believe the one I've always sort of assumed is that battling them earns their respect, and when the Ball catches them, it is because they are recognizing your strength and allowing themselves to be caught. This of course gets a bit murkier when you have lucky first-turn captures, Quick Balls, critical captures, etc., but that's my general thought process.

There is a myth from Sinnoh which says this:

> "Long ago, when Sinnoh had just been made, Pokémon and humans led separate lives. That is not to say they did not help each other. No, indeed they did. They supplied each other with goods, and supported each other. A Pokémon proposed to the others to always be ready to help humans. It asked that Pokémon be ready to appear before humans always. Thus, to this day, Pokémon appear to us if we venture into tall grass."

... but who knows if that story is even reliable. You know how myths are. Though if you go to the Canalave Library, Lucian says this at one point:

> "I was just reading a collection of observations on Pokémon in the wild. One article addresses the question why Pokémon would go into a Poké Ball. According to this article, this behavior is based on instinct. A weakened Pokémon will curl up tight in an effort to heal itself. The Poké Ball was invented to take advantage of that protective instinct."

... which seems to be a more scientific reading from Pokémon experts.

The BW games, however, give me a slight impression that it's something about the Poké Balls themselves that "rewire" the Pokémon so as to be inclined to obey the Trainer. Consider these pieces of dialogue:

> Shadow Triad: "I stole this Pokémon five years ago in Aspertia. So it seems likely that it is the Pokémon you're talking about. But now, it only listens to my commands. Such is the fate of Pokémon that are trapped in Poké Balls! Ah... I feel sorry for Pokémon. They're ruled by Poké Balls and the whims of their Trainers... Lord Ghetsis spoke of Pokémon liberation two years ago simply for his own ambitions, but... If his plans had succeeded, many Pokémon would have been saved."

> Drayden: "When I was little, Poké Balls didn't exist yet. Sometimes Pokémon would run away from awful Trainers who didn't try to understand them."

> N: "Who decided that catching Pokémon and making them battle each other is how the world works? That wasn't how things were before Poké Balls were invented… The rules that govern this world are wrong!"

> N: "And someday both truth and ideals will come together… Then Pokémon and humans will be freed from the oppression of Poké Balls."

The Triad's quote seems to me to say that Pokémon that are caught in Poké Balls have no choice but to obey their Trainers. We know that they can be disobedient if traded to somebody other than their OT, but it does not appear as though they can defy their OT (presumably, the five years of being controlled by the Triad caused Hugh's sister's Purrloin to develop some form of PokéStockholm Syndrome, or they tricked it into thinking they had won x amount of Badges in order to gain its trust).

Now factor in what Drayden says - if Pokémon would run away from abusive Trainers before there were Poké Balls, does that imply that they no longer have that option? N (pre-BW climax) reiterates that the way of the world, and the relationship between humans and Pokémon was not only different in this era, but was actually preferable to the way things are currently, at least for the sake of Pokémon.

And even in B2W2, N still maintains that Poké Balls are something "oppressive" that should eventually be done away with, even though he has now learned that humans and Pokémon can coexist.

This all makes it hard for me to not view Poké Balls as, essentially, brainwashing devices of a sort. If you remove the Pokémon's ability to disobey its captor or to escape from an abusive owner, what else do you call it? And then I would seriously have to question the ethics of the Master Ball - because at least with standard-issue Poké Balls, they seem to have some room to resist when the initial capture is being attempted.

And to be completely honest, this is one of the few areas in which I do think that Gen V dropped the (Poké-)ball. Don't get me wrong, though - I love Gen V more than any other, and think this is a perfectly valid interpretation to go with. But it is also a very grim notion, to think that our Pokémon are actually being forcibly bent to our will. There is a clear ethical problem in that, which was of course actively questioned by Team Plasma (at least ostensibly). But there is about a Snover's chance in Hell that we will ever see the abandonment of one of the series's most iconic symbols, at least in the main series games. So we are never going to see a world freed from the "oppression" of Poké Balls. And that is what I call "writing themselves into a corner." They offered a very bleak and problematic interpretation of the fundamentals of Pokémon capture, but were not prepared to commit to dealing with its implications in the long-term. So should they, in retrospect, have even brought the idea up in the first place?

 

[whitekeys]

Well there are a couple of answers. I believe the one I've always sort of assumed is that battling them earns their respect, and when the Ball catches them, it is because they are recognizing your strength and allowing themselves to be caught. This of course gets a bit murkier when you have lucky first-turn captures, Quick Balls, critical captures, etc., but that's my general thought process.

There is a myth from Sinnoh which says this:

> "Long ago, when Sinnoh had just been made, Pokémon and humans led separate lives. That is not to say they did not help each other. No, indeed they did. They supplied each other with goods, and supported each other. A Pokémon proposed to the others to always be ready to help humans. It asked that Pokémon be ready to appear before humans always. Thus, to this day, Pokémon appear to us if we venture into tall grass."

... but who knows if that story is even reliable. You know how myths are. Though if you go to the Canalave Library, Lucian says this at one point:

> "I was just reading a collection of observations on Pokémon in the wild. One article addresses the question why Pokémon would go into a Poké Ball. According to this article, this behavior is based on instinct. A weakened Pokémon will curl up tight in an effort to heal itself. The Poké Ball was invented to take advantage of that protective instinct."

... which seems to be a more scientific reading from Pokémon experts.

The BW games, however, give me a slight impression that it's something about the Poké Balls themselves that "rewire" the Pokémon so as to be inclined to obey the Trainer. Consider these pieces of dialogue:

> Shadow Triad: "I stole this Pokémon five years ago in Aspertia. So it seems likely that it is the Pokémon you're talking about. But now, it only listens to my commands. Such is the fate of Pokémon that are trapped in Poké Balls! Ah... I feel sorry for Pokémon. They're ruled by Poké Balls and the whims of their Trainers... Lord Ghetsis spoke of Pokémon liberation two years ago simply for his own ambitions, but... If his plans had succeeded, many Pokémon would have been saved."

> Drayden: "When I was little, Poké Balls didn't exist yet. Sometimes Pokémon would run away from awful Trainers who didn't try to understand them."

> N: "Who decided that catching Pokémon and making them battle each other is how the world works? That wasn't how things were before Poké Balls were invented… The rules that govern this world are wrong!"

> N: "And someday both truth and ideals will come together… Then Pokémon and humans will be freed from the oppression of Poké Balls."

The Triad's quote seems to me to say that Pokémon that are caught in Poké Balls have no choice but to obey their Trainers. We know that they can be disobedient if traded to somebody other than their OT, but it does not appear as though they can defy their OT (presumably, the five years of being controlled by the Triad caused Hugh's sister's Purrloin to develop some form of PokéStockholm Syndrome, or they tricked it into thinking they had won x amount of Badges in order to gain its trust).

Now factor in what Drayden says - if Pokémon would run away from abusive Trainers before there were Poké Balls, does that imply that they no longer have that option? N (pre-BW climax) reiterates that the way of the world, and the relationship between humans and Pokémon was not only different in this era, but was actually preferable to the way things are currently, at least for the sake of Pokémon.

And even in B2W2, N still maintains that Poké Balls are something "oppressive" that should eventually be done away with, even though he has now learned that humans and Pokémon can coexist.

This all makes it hard for me to not view Poké Balls as, essentially, brainwashing devices of a sort. If you remove the Pokémon's ability to disobey its captor or to escape from an abusive owner, what else do you call it? And then I would seriously have to question the ethics of the Master Ball - because at least with standard-issue Poké Balls, they seem to have some room to resist when the initial capture is being attempted.

And to be completely honest, this is one of the few areas in which I do think that Gen V dropped the (Poké-)ball. Don't get me wrong, though - I love Gen V more than any other, and think this is a perfectly valid interpretation to go with. But it is also a very grim notion, to think that our Pokémon are actually being forcibly bent to our will. There is a clear ethical problem in that, which was of course actively questioned by Team Plasma (at least ostensibly). But there is about a Snover's chance in Hell that we will ever see the abandonment of one of the series's most iconic symbols, at least in the main series games. So we are never going to see a world freed from the "oppression" of Poké Balls. And that is what I call "writing themselves into a corner." They offered a very bleak and problematic interpretation of the fundamentals of Pokémon capture, but were not prepared to commit to dealing with its implications in the long-term. So should they, in retrospect, have even brought the idea up in the first place?

This is a great answer! Well researched. Thank you for the food for thought.

I had considered this to be true - that PokeBalls had some mechanic which force the Pokemon to obey their masters. However, there are still two problematic circumstances I find with this.

The first is the episode S1E2 Pokemon Emergency. Ash and Misty are attacked by Team Rocket during Ash's first visit to the PokeCenter. In an attempt to battle their way to freedom (before Pikachu was fully healed), they start grabbing pokeballs off the wall with the expectation that when opened, the pokemon emerging would obey their commands. So, there must be something to do with with person throwing the ball, too, or their voice. Maybe something to do with fingerprints and DNA. Its almost like a re-birth experience for the Pokemon.

The other is a simple problem with pokemon DISobedience in general. Even after some kind of brainwashing, or re-birthing, or whatever, there are still circumstances which lead a pokemon to disobey their masters. This is explained away in the anime based on Badges and respect. But is there something else? And what does this say about the initial question of obedience?

 

[CynthiaLover]

Well, for starters, I agree with what @Esserise said, at least the first part. It was said that Pokemon and humans, while they existed separately, learned to trust and work together, which started the concept of bonding and forming a feeling of trust between both sides, as both sides had things to offer that the other side needed.

Think of it this way. Do you know how the evolution of dogs came to be? In ancient times, humans and wolves lived in totally separate lives, but at one point humans and wolves started to work together. I believe it was because some wolves realized they can get better care if injured or get more frequent meals from humans, while humans can have more successful hunts and get better protection with the wolves. Thus started the evolution of the now domesticated dog. There are still wild wolves out in the world, living the same life as they always have, but we have our own version of wolves right in our homes, as dogs have 100% the same DNA as wolves do, despite the breeds. I may be missing a few bits of info here and there, as I haven't gone to the wolf conservation group seminars in a while, but that's the general gist of it.

Moving on into the Pokemon world, while Pokemon are wild animals, like the wolves in ancient times, they can eventually be tamed. When it comes to obedience, it's not so simple. By tapping into the natural instincts of Pokemon, Trainers engage them in battle to prove their strength. Then when the Poke Ball is thrown and they're caught, they have a chance to break free. This could be seen as the Pokemon proving how strong it is and will only want to listen to someone who it can respect. So if it bursts out, it means that it's not impressed enough. When it is successfully caught, that may mean that the Pokemon has come to respect its new Trainer. Remember Snivy in BW anime? She was mildly unimpressed with Ash at first, but when she saw his persistence, and his desire to protect his Pokemon (mainly Pikachu), even at his own expense, she started to see what she was looking for in him. He did have to battle her as one final test and, thankfully for him, Pidove was a girl, which made her immune to Attract, allowing both to fight on a equal footing. When Snivy had been worn down enough, she came to accept Ash and allowed herself to be caught. Ash had to prove himself in order to win Snivy over, which, in turn, earned him her trust and loyalty. It's like a ritual of sort, where one has to prove their worth to someone in order to gain their trust and loyalty.

In regards to the Poke Ball, it is designed to be comfortable and inviting, so when an injured Pokemon enters it, they will naturally curl up and attempt to heal themselves. That's the concept of a Poke Ball, to make it like a portable home for Pokemon, so they can be comfortable. I don't believe that there is some form of brainwashing mechanics in it, that may have been exaggerated during the BW era in order to further Team Plasma's "motives" (which, as it turned out, was all a lie) and make people feel guilty about catching Pokemon. N obviously swallowed all those lies due to how he was raised (he was only allowed to play with abandoned or hurt Pokemon and have limited to no human interaction so he would only see the subject from one side), which is why he was so actively against Trainers and Poke Balls in general, but he realized his way of thinking was wrong and that he was just a pawn all along. That's what the BW era was teaching us: accept all sides of the story, not just one, and it opens up worlds of new possibilities.

Moving on, let's talk about obedience and disobedience. Pokemon are, after all, wild animals, so they have natural instincts and think and act on their own in order to survive. But they're also very intelligent, which grants them greater properties. When a Trainer comes into the mix, it forces the Pokemon to make a decision: follow and obey the human, or remain true to their natural instincts. It's an argument of pros and cons. The pros consist of getting stronger, getting much more readily available medical help when needed, a constant source of food whenever they are hungry, a safe place to rest, and making new friends that it can trust. The cons are being forced to adapt to a new situation, possibly against their will, deciding if listening to the human is in the Pokemon's better judgment or not, and not being free to do as one pleases. However, the reason why Pokemon will accept being caught is because the pros almost always outweigh the cons, meaning that they don't have to worry about the more important things such as food sources and medical help, as any animal will die if it can't get enough food or is in poor health. Pokemon are no different. However, it doesn't insure obedience. That's where the Trainer comes in. The Trainer not only has to teach the Pokemon that some habits are bad, but the Trainer must also customize himself/herself to better accommodate the new Pokemon's needs and style. Like with Dawn's Togekiss, she had to learn to adapt Togekiss's elegant style into her own way of doing things. Basically, both sides need to compromise on certain things in order to find a level of understanding between Trainers and Pokemon. That way the Pokemon learn to trust the humans and become loyal while the humans learn more about the Pokemon so they won't make the same mistake or hurt it in some form. That's how one gains someone else's loyalty, by learning and understanding how they think and act, as well as prove one's own abilities. The games don't elaborate much on this, only in the form of X# of badges = obedience level, but it does provide bit of an example of Trainer worthiness = Pokemon's level of respect, so there is that to consider.

That's my 2 cents on the subject. Spend it however you'd like.

 

[Esserise]

This is a great answer! Well researched. Thank you for the food for thought.

I had considered this to be true - that PokeBalls had some mechanic which force the Pokemon to obey their masters. However, there are still two problematic circumstances I find with this.

The first is the episode S1E2 Pokemon Emergency. Ash and Misty are attacked by Team Rocket during Ash's first visit to the PokeCenter. In an attempt to battle their way to freedom (before Pikachu was fully healed), they start grabbing pokeballs off the wall with the expectation that when opened, the pokemon emerging would obey their commands. So, there must be something to do with with person throwing the ball, too, or their voice. Maybe something to do with fingerprints and DNA. Its almost like a re-birth experience for the Pokemon.

The other is a simple problem with pokemon DISobedience in general. Even after some kind of brainwashing, or re-birthing, or whatever, there are still circumstances which lead a pokemon to disobey their masters. This is explained away in the anime based on Badges and respect. But is there something else? And what does this say about the initial question of obedience?

And here is where I have to admit that the anime is completely alien territory to me, except for the original Kanto series (but even that was many years ago). I wouldn't really think of it as occuring within the same setting or context as the games anyway, but the more significant fact is that I only just recently became interested in watching it, and that's only in regards to the XY series. So I can't really speak to how obedience is portrayed on that end.

Moving on into the Pokemon world, while Pokemon are wild animals, like the wolves in ancient times, they can eventually be tamed. When it comes to obedience, it's not so simple. By tapping into the natural instincts of Pokemon, Trainers engage them in battle to prove their strength. Then when the Poke Ball is thrown and they're caught, they have a chance to break free. This could be seen as the Pokemon proving how strong it is and will only want to listen to someone who it can respect. So if it bursts out, it means that it's not impressed enough. When it is successfully caught, that may mean that the Pokemon has come to respect its new Trainer. Remember Snivy in BW anime? She was mildly unimpressed with Ash at first, but when she saw his persistence, and his desire to protect his Pokemon (mainly Pikachu), even at his own expense, she started to see what she was looking for in him. He did have to battle her as one final test and, thankfully for him, Pidove was a girl, which made her immune to Attract, allowing both to fight on a equal footing. When Snivy had been worn down enough, she came to accept Ash and allowed herself to be caught. Ash had to prove himself in order to win Snivy over, which, in turn, earned him her trust and loyalty. It's like a ritual of sort, where one has to prove their worth to someone in order to gain their trust and loyalty.

First of all, you've put up an excellent, high-quality post here. It was a very fulfilling read and that just needs to be said.

Secondly, I couldn't help but think of this topic again the other day, when the newest SM trailer was released. I was reading Passimian's description on the official site, and it said this:

> "Passimian wants its Trainer to have the qualities of a leader as well. It watches a Trainer’s form closely when he or she throws Poké Balls, and will not listen to the orders of a Trainer with poor form."

I think that aligns very well with the idea that Pokémon are themselves evaluating prospective Trainers who attempt to capture them.

I don't believe that there is some form of brainwashing mechanics in it, that may have been exaggerated during the BW era in order to further Team Plasma's "motives" (which, as it turned out, was all a lie) and make people feel guilty about catching Pokemon. N obviously swallowed all those lies due to how he was raised (he was only allowed to play with abandoned or hurt Pokemon and have limited to no human interaction so he would only see the subject from one side), which is why he was so actively against Trainers and Poke Balls in general, but he realized his way of thinking was wrong and that he was just a pawn all along. That's what the BW era was teaching us: accept all sides of the story, not just one, and it opens up worlds of new possibilities.

I see what you are saying here, but I feel I should reiterate that N still seems firmly opposed to the existence of Poké Balls even in B2W2, long after he's amended his beliefs, and that is where the second quote that I posted comes from. And for the Shadow Triad's quote, they outright admit that the ideology of Team Plasma was a lie, but the way the dialogue is phrased seems to imply, to me at least, that this particular function of Poké Balls is an underlying reality that would have genuinely been reformed if Ghetsis's plans in BW had succeeded.

Now granted, N was very thoroughly indoctrinated. I wouldn't be surprised if even two whole years after his epiphany, he hasn't managed to shake off all of what he was taught. He's coming at the situation from a completely different angle due to his unique upbringing and perspective, but we do know that he is as fallible as anyone, since BW were all about that. And the Triad, in B2W2, speak in a very flippant and aloof manner, so they could just be trying to rile Hugh up. That's possible. It's just that when those quotes are all taken at once, it paints an unfortunate picture.