Pokémon Universe (Canonical Games)

[Ash_Pokemaster]

I open this topic to discuss matters not cleared up with the first thought. Which Pokemon games consist the canonical Pokemon Universe, the relationship between them, timely, characters arround them, naming of each character, locations, and other things that have been matter of discussion. This of course starts by clearing up whether each of the spin-off Pokemon Games, meaning the non-Tranditional ones, is canon or not. I will start off by sharing my thoughts.

Pokemon Stadium Franchise - HAL Laboratory

Developed by HAL Laboratory, it made it to be the first home-console Pokemon franchise. It brought Pokemon from the GameBoy to the big screen. Simulating the battles and having extra features, the games turned out being a pretty acknowledged. I believe that it can easily be considered canon to the series. Indirect connectivity to the games, and schemes coming from them. Even characters from the respective Generation, like the Gym Leaders and the Elite Four.

While Pokemon Stadium games are not storyline oriented, there are some notable elements on them. For example, if the battles taking place on the game are fully canonical, then it would appear that the Gym Leaders of Kanto and Johto, moved from their places to the Gym Leader Castles, even for a probably short time to attend them. Furthermore, considering they use different teams, the Pokemon used by them during the events of the Stadium games, can well be called canonically possesed by them. Other things include the location where they are set, Pokemon Island and White City, as well as Proffessor Oak's role, Mewtwo's role, Earl's appearence and other minor things.

New Pokemon Console Games - Genius Sonority

Pokemon Colosseum and XD: Gale of Darkness made the first Pokemon games to keep the tranditional gameplay and be fully 3D. Perfectly retaining the gameplay aspects previously developed, those brought a storyline based Pokemon game on the TV. While their philosophy is wholy different, they are still easily though to be taking place on the same universe as the other main games.

Of course, there are certainly questions not answered. Their time relationship to the other games, as well as the location they are based on. They are still material for discussion.

Pokemon Battle Revolution on the other hand is closer to the Stadiums, although omiting any detail which made them be what they are. It can still be considered canonical though, I believe.

Pokemon Ranger Franchise - HAL Laboratory

Despite their introdusing a completely difference gameplay, Pokemon Ranger games are in my opinion plot-wise and event-wise canonical. To begin with, they share a lot schemes with the traditional Pokemon games. These include the Pokemon cries, for example, or the battle position with the classical line "A Wild Pokemon Appeared."

It should be apparent that they are set on a region of the same Universe with the other games. This shows from several indirect mentions of the other Regions, such as Hoenn. One big example being the Kyogre vs Groudon event, and the respective Pokemon going to rest in Fiore. I believe that there is no room for doubt on Ranger. The events even bond at some point, with use of the connectivity. Remember? The Manaphy Egg comes by post, stating that it is from another Region.

While there are still some others I might end up being for, I want to hear other peoples' opinions first. So, I will stop here for now.

 

[The Outrage]

Well Orre is recognised as an official "region of the Pokemon world" along with the Ranger areas.

Though Colosseum and XD do pose some continuity problems. Gale of Darkness takes place five years after colosseum if I recall, but both have compatibility between third generation games. Even in the main series, technically only three years have passed.

I guess Colosseum can be seen as taking place a few years before RBY/RSE and XD a few years after, but still before GSC/DP.

Basically to me, all the games are Canon in relation to the Pokemon Universe except for things like the TCG for your gameboy, Pinball, Puzzle League, Dash and Trozei. Though TCG for the games could just be called an alternate universe much like MD.

 

[sparkyrotom]

Dash and Trozei could be canon

 

[Ash_Pokemaster]

I guess Colosseum can be seen as taking place a few years before RBY/RSE and XD a few years after, but still before GSC/DP.

Well, except it is yet to be proved that the timeline is like that. Personally, I find it far more logical that the the games are chronologically placed, on the same order they were released.

Of course, both theories have bases, but I don't like the idea of claiming RSE take place along with RGBYFRLG just because of the events with the Storage Systems, in the Sevii Islands. I mean, it is not unreasonable to claim that the Storage Systems could be fixed any time. That problem could be resolved much before the plot of RSE begins.

Furthermore, the Red Gyarados event is not enough to make the claim of DP taking place along with GSC. There is not one Gyarados in the world. Not to mention that other Johto cameos actually can be taken as, so that one can state that DP does take place after GSC. Proffessor Elm's researches have already been heard of, while it is possible that Jasmine is training after seeing that she is not yet strong enough. Also, on the time GSC take place, Oak is in Johto, and then in Kanto, so a fair time should be given for him to visit Sinnoh.

More justification can be given by apparent technological enhancements that appear both Hoenn and Sinnoh compared to Kanto and Johto, or even more researches that have been done. Also, it is difficult to believe that in two regions evil forces have started moving on almost the same time. Like Team Rocket and Team Magma/Aqua, and new Team Rocket along with Team Galaxy.

Anyway, like I said, I can accept either, as correct, but am personally for the classic one.

 

[The Outrage]

Its not jsut the Sevii islands. How about the fact that the Devon Corporation was supposedly working on a machine to bring back extinct Pokemon? Surely if one was already in the works for over three years, the Devon Corporation would not have had so much trouble implementing the technology.

I'm not saying they took place at the same time, but aroudn the general time, before a big skip in the timeline.

As for Professor Elm's research, how wide spread is it really, I mean apart fromt that hiker guy. I'm pretty sure that the whole "Elm discovered Pokemon eggs" was just a bad attempt at introducing eggs, much like how the 100 Johto pokemon were supposedly new species.

Dash and Trozei could be canon

Saying they could is so much easier than explaining how isn't it?

 

[Ash_Pokemaster]

Its not jsut the Sevii islands. How about the fact that the Devon Corporation was supposedly working on a machine to bring back extinct Pokemon? Surely if one was already in the works for over three years, the Devon Corporation would not have had so much trouble implementing the technology.

True, this is something interesting to note. Although it is not proven, it can be assumed. Don't forget however, that Cinnabar Island, also has Pokemon Mansion, the place where Mewtwo was cloned. It is just as logical to assume the possibility that the technologies used for bringing back extinct Pokemon can derive from Team Rocket's researches, or even researches from the Pokemon Lab itself. Researchers there were after all the ones who created Porygon.

 

[The Outrage]

True, this is something interesting to note. Although it is not proven, it can be assumed. Don't forget however, that Cinnabar Island, also has Pokemon Mansion, the place where Mewtwo was cloned. It is just as logical to assume the possibility that the technologies used for bringing back extinct Pokemon can derive from Team Rocket's researches, or even researches from the Pokemon Lab itself. Researchers there were after all the ones who created Porygon.

I thought it was Silph Co researchers considering all the information found in Silph co about Porygon and the fact that Team Rocket had agents stationed there, and they also have a large amount of Porygon at their disposal.

Also, Team Rocket had absolutely nothing to do with Mewtwo's creation in the games, and if it was Team Rocket, I doubt anyone would have had access to it outside of the Rockets.

 

[Ash_Pokemaster]

I thought it was Silph Co researchers considering all the information found in Silph co about Porygon and the fact that Team Rocket had agents stationed there, and they also have a large amount of Porygon at their disposal.

Also, Team Rocket had absolutely nothing to do with Mewtwo's creation in the games, and if it was Team Rocket, I doubt anyone would have had access to it outside of the Rockets.

You're right, it was Silph Co., but things connect. I mean, Silph Co. could well have well developed such a system. It wouldn't be much different than the system Mewtwo was created by. Mew's genes were used.

As for Mewtwo, although not directly connected to Team Rocket, it is be easy to connect him with them, and we all know it. If they have to do with Porygon, which is a Pokemon Mansion's result of research, then it is highly possible that the researcher of the Cinnabar Island may even have a sort of connection with Team Rocket himself.

 

[The Outrage]

But Pokemon Mansion was, atleast hinted in the games, owned by Mr. Fuji, a man so kind-hearted that even Mew showed itself to him (quite ironic that he may have created Mewtwo) and Porygon was never referenced in th mansion either.

 

[Ash_Pokemaster]

Bleh, Pokemon Labs which are connected to Pokemon Mansion. Too many indirections. Either way, Mr. Fuji, although apparently a scientist, according to Faraway Island's messages, proves another thing; Blaine, a friend of his, is also a scientist, not wearing coinsidentally the respecive clothes. So, it should be possible that he alone wasn't the man who cloned Mew, but he along with Blaine, or even Blaine himself could have done so. Don't forget after all that Pokemon Mansion was burnt.

 

[The Outrage]

I didn't say he did it alone, but he could have been one of the creators.

Let's get back on topic of spin-offs being canon.

I was thinking that Stadium was like a battling theme park, and the Gym-Leader Castle would be like an anual thing where gym leaders shed their normal duties to gather and wait for challenges from prospective trainers.

Poketopia was just a knock-off of the far more successful Battle Frontier

 

[Nando]

You're right, it was Silph Co., but things connect. I mean, Silph Co. could well have well developed such a system. It wouldn't be much different than the system Mewtwo was created by. Mew's genes were used.

I don't think Silph created Porygon. I remember the Pokémon Report memo in question that you read in Silph Co.'s headquarters, and it says "Pokémon Lab created Porygon, the first virtual-reality Pokémon." Pokémon Lab is the facility on Cinnabar Island.

It definitely is possible that the two are connected though.

 

[The Outrage]

It definitely is possible that the two are connected though.

Probably since Silph is the one who definately created the Up-grade an d possibly the Dubious Disc. To do that they probably would have gotten the original plans for it, in whihc case a Rocket Scientist could have made a copy of it. Silph might also be the ones funding their research, in which case a big lawsuit for the Devon corporation for patent infringement on reviving fossils

I don't imagine that there are too many ways to do this. Though in the originals they had the fossils revived at level 30, but in the remakes, at level 5 which implies they were basically clones that developed much like real-world clones. If I recall, all fossils in Sinnoh and Hoenn are revived at level 20, so those two may actually be the same exact machine.

Spoiler

This makes me wonder about the whole tiemline theory again, but both of them lack sufficient evidence to call anything out.

 

[Ash_Pokemaster]

I don't think Silph created Porygon. I remember the Pokémon Report memo in question that you read in Silph Co.'s headquarters, and it says "Pokémon Lab created Porygon, the first virtual-reality Pokémon." Pokémon Lab is the facility on Cinnabar Island.

It definitely is possible that the two are connected though.

I didn't say Silph Co. created Porygon, I accidentally said Pokemon Mansion did, though however it was actually a result of research of the Pokemon Lab, which IS connected to Pokemon Mansion.

I don't imagine that there are too many ways to do this. Though in the originals they had the fossils revived at level 30, but in the remakes, at level 5 which implies they were basically clones that developed much like real-world clones. If I recall, all fossils in Sinnoh and Hoenn are revived at level 20, so those two may actually be the same exact machine.

Nice point.
That could possibly mean that Devon Corporation has a more literal way of reviving fossil Pokemon than merely cloning them. At least, it appears that the two machines are not necessarily the same.