Question For Theists: Did God Think Of Star Wars Before George Lucas Did?

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Rishi

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Over the span of many years, I have wondered about this concept known
as 'creativity' and if it actually exists. However, only a few weeks ago while meditating, a thought spontaneously entered my mind. The thought was my inner voice telling me this message: True creativity is not possible for any living entity.

There are several philosophical viewpoints and concepts that support this message. First of all, the majority of the religions that exist in the world today believe in the existence of a 'Supreme', whether they conceive of it as a Supreme Being, a Supreme Force or a Supreme Reality (or any combination of those three or even all three at once). It may be called by a variety of names, such as God, Allah, Yahweh, Buddha Nature, Brahman etc. but it's all essentially referring to one and/or all of those three conceptions of a 'Supreme'. Furthermore, two of the most common qualities given to that 'Supreme' is omniscience and an eternal existence. If a thing has an existence that is eternal, then its existence has neither a beginning nor an end. Also, if a thing is omniscient, then it has infinite knowledge. It knows all. So if omniscience and eternal existence are combined together, what implications does this have in regard to so-called 'creativity'? It means that the constituent thoughts responsible for every painting you've ever painted, every sculpture you've ever sculpted and every song you've ever composed has been known by the Supreme even before both of your grandparents were born. Actually, to be more precise, it means that such knowledge has been a part of the Supreme without any beginning and thus such knowledge will remain a part of the Supreme without any end. Think about what I've just said for a moment. If you believe in a Supreme that is BOTH eternally existent AND omniscient, then this is an inevitable consequence of that.

Now another concept that supports my view that true creativity is impossible is the 'eternal return' concept. The eternal return concept is believed to have its roots in the civilisation of ancient Egypt, yet the same concept can also be found in the Dharmic religions of Hinduism and Buddhism. The concept of eternal return basically posits that the universe has been recurring and will continue to recur in the exact same manner an infinite number of times. As infinity is all-inclusive by its very nature, this means that every thought that you or I have ever thought has been thought countless times before an unfathomable amount of time ago and, by extension, will be thought again a countless number of times in the future as well. Not only this, but beings exactly the same as you both in appearance and in personality have thought all of those thoughts that you've thought throughout this entire lifetime of yours so far. So, in that sense, you've never 'made' anything new. Nothing is 'new'. This whole notion of 'newness' would therefore be illusory because all that seems to be new would in fact be infinitely old. In fact, to be more precise, it would be eternal.

And finally, there is the concept of the akashic records. The akashic records concept is a concept that traces its origins to Hinduism but also exists in other Dharmic religions such as Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism. It is also a concept that exists in the Western organisation known as 'Theosophy'. There are many variations of details regarding what the akashic records are actually supposed to be. However, the original Hindu conception of the akashic records concept states that every thought, every sound, every sensation, every emotion, every event and all combinations of matter and energy that has ever occurred, is occurring and will occur anywhere and everywhere are all eternally encoded within the very fabric of space itself in the form of subtle vibrational patterns which are modifications of consciousness. Thus, space is not actually a vacuum (as it has long been thought to be) but is actually a plenum instead. Space is full instead of empty. Space is fullness as opposed to emptiness.

If every thought, every sound, every sensation, every emotion, every event and all combinations of matter and energy (every everything, in fact! lol) is eternally impressed upon the subtle akash, then how can any living entity be truly creative? They can't! Just a day after I received this thought about creativity while deeply relaxed and immersed in meditation, I read a book written by the great Indian yogi Paramahamsa Yogananda known as The Divine Romance. I randomly chose a chapter from this book to read out of interest. I was surprised to read that he mentioned in that very chapter how yogi masters are able to tap into the akashic records through expanding their consciousness and can then instantaneously know whatever they want to know at will. I do not consider this to be a coincidence. He even also stated that every invention that has ever been made as well as every invention that is yet to come already eternally exist in akash as subtle thought-forms. Yogananda confirmed what I already strongly felt to be true.

Even the Sanskrit word 'srishti' attests to the impossibility of true creativity. The word 'srishti' is commonly translated into English as 'creation' but this is in fact an inaccurate translation. The true meaning of the word 'srishti' is 'a gross thing projected from a subtle substance'. What does this mean? It means that the materials which compose this entire universe were pre-existing even before this universe was born, albeit in an unmanifest state. Then supposedly the first living entity of this universe, Brahma, externally projected all of the pre-existing materials of this universe which were inside his mind through the sheer power of his consciousness. As a result, these subtle pre-existing materials gained gross shape and solidity and transformed from their unmanifest state to their manifest state. Then Brahma enters within this external universe which is a projection from his mind and becomes the first living entity in this universe. So what I'm getting at here is that if this entire universe could be but one single thought from an inconceivably great mind, imagine how infinitely greater all the limitless thoughts of the Universal Mind are! All of our so-called 'creations' as well as the thoughts that led to their so-called 'creation' have forever existed in the solitary akash and will forever have their existence there. This is why I sometimes laugh silently whenever I see 'copyright' and 'trademark' symbols. I shall now close this post by possibly paraphrasing something Paramahamsa Yogananda said in his book The Divine Romance:

"Science has invented nothing. It has only rediscovered what is already eternally existing in God."

=]
 
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Hmmm, interesting post XD

The notion of creativity and knowledge is my opinion relative. Yes, a person's thoughts have occured an infinite number of times, but the person in question can not recall that thought being thought of by all of the other people. I believe God is eternal and knows everything, that is part of my beliefs. Does he know everything that is basically everything? Yes, and he knows all that will occur and that has occured, but he does not give that infinite knowledge to man. Each person that lives must learn things for themself, a never-ending cycle of knowledge that (hopefully) builds over time.
Creativity is "created" by the individual as at that present time, he is unique in that regard. I personally don't think 2 people can ever be identical, only similar, so "new" ideas are continually recycled so to speak. Human nature makes things "new" and so places claim on them (copyrights, trademarks, etc.).
In essence, the human being discovers "new" things many times within it's life, but I do agree in that those experiences, thoughts, feelings, wishes, and hopes have been done before by others.
 
Hello, Rishi. Firstly, this argument is a stab largely at the notion of Omnipotence, although due to that it does challenge the roots of your post. I am not entirely sure of it's context, but I think that it would be worthwhile mentioning it here, nevertheless.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post. However, the driving point of your argument appears to be in ignorance of the Omnipotence Paradox. As a concequence, I convey that your argument applies only to theists that believe in a supreme omnipotent diety without question. Nevertheless - The core premise of the Omnipotence Paradox is based on the idea that any Omnipotent diety cannot be truly omnipotent without violating its own nature as being Omnipotent.

Here is my own personal variation - A diety is Omnipotent. That means it can do or know anything. Think about that. Anything? I argue no, as the idea is easily deconstructed with simple reasoning. Here is an example:

Can an Omnipotent, Omniscient diety create something beyond it's comprehension? If it can, it creates something that it cannot comprehend, meaning it is not Omnipotent. If it cannot, it is not Omnipotent. If it can create it, and comprehend it regardless, it fails to create something it cannot comprehend, thus rendering it not Omnipotent. Therefore I argue that true Omnipotence is logically impossible, because in order for it to be true, said diety would need to constantly surpass its own, unsurpassble power. Omnipotence would need to be more powerful than Omnipotence to be truly Omnipotent.

There is one final option, the idea that the Omnipotent diety transcends all logic. Yet that in itself is a cop-out, and if it is used, I see no reason for any logical argument to stem from it, simply because the premise wouldnt be so.
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Here is another refute to the original post. The existence of an Omnipotent being means that all possible realites - everything - exists at least in premise, or the possibility of existing. Therefore, you cannot actually say that anything is impossible - including the idea of limited human creativity.
 
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This looks more complicated than it probably needs to be.

George Lucas thought up Star Wars and all that and such, yes...

But God knew what he was going to think and do before George was even born. That's all there is too it. It's not as though God "thought it up before George Lucas", he simply knew what his spirit son George Lucas was going to think up.
 
Jamesredsilver said:
It's not as though God "thought it up before George Lucas", he simply knew what his spirit son George Lucas was going to think up.
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That essentially means the same thing and you KNOW it. God "simply knew what his spirit son George Lucas was going to think up", ergo God thought of Star Wars before George Lucas did.
 
Well, there's always the idea that you can't say anything that hasn't already been said before.

We're all products of our societies. The way we think has always been molded by other people, our cultural norms, what we read, what we see, etc. I suppose, in that sense, our thoughts are not really random at all, but merely the end product of all the input we receive.

But in the larger scale of things, does it even matter? My ideas will seem new to me, whether or not an omnipotent or supreme force thought of them first XD
 
I think that all knowledge/information, both conceivable and inconceivable to the human mind, has existed eternally and will continue to exist eternally in the ether. A person who is an expert at interacting with the ether need not read very often, it is not necessary for him/her. By the time they get through a few pages of a book, they know from its vibrations whatever truth it contains. Here is what Paramahamsa Yoganananda had to say about this matter in his book The Divine Romance:

"All the knowledge there is to be known in every branch of science and art, including the mystery of the atoms and the history of the universe and of human beings, is already existing in the ether as vibrations of truth. These vibrations are all around us even at this very moment and will remain so forever and there is indeed a way to contact these vibrations directly. That way is through the all-knowing intuitive power of the soul. To discover any truth, we have only to turn our consciousness inward to the soul, whose omniscience is one with God. When those who are receptive hear someone speak truth, it seems so familiar. Their first reaction is "I thought so!". The mind has simply recognised a truth already known intuitively by the soul. Great souls who reveal to mankind deep spiritual truths receive their knowledge through direct attunement with the vibrations of those truths. Also vibrating in the ether are the concepts for every invention man has created or will create in the future. When an inventor's concentration is right, he is attuned to receive intuitively the idea vibration for the creation of his invention. The discoverers of these ideas may say that they have invented this or that, but they haven't really invented anything. They have only uncovered what was already there: the vibratory blueprint hidden in the ether. A well-known example of this phenomenon, recounted in the book Prodigal Genius, by John J. O'Neill, is the manner in which the great scientist and inventor Nikola Tesla (1856-1943) 'discovered' the principle of the rotating magnetic field - a discovery that made possible his many alternating-current devices and subsequent inventions that form the foundation of today's power and industrial systems. In 1882, while walking with a companion and reciting poetry in a Budapest park at sunset, Tesla suddenly froze into a rigid trance-like state. To his friend's dismay, Tesla soon began to speak of an inner vision: "Watch me. Watch me reverse it", he said, over and over again, in a voice bubbling with enthusiasm. The friend thought he was ill; but the great inventor later explained that he was actually 'seeing' an alternating-current motor in operation: "I have solved the problem. Can't you see it right here in front of me, running almost silently?..... No more will men be slaves to hard tasks. My motor will set them free, it will do the work of the world." Over the next few months, he continued to elaborate upon the detailed blueprints in his mind, where they remained stored for six years until he was able to put them into practical application."
 
"All the knowledge there is to be known in every branch of science and art, including the mystery of the atoms and the history of the universe and of human beings, is already existing in the ether as vibrations of truth. These vibrations are all around us even at this very moment and will remain so forever and there is indeed a way to contact these vibrations directly. That way is through the all-knowing intuitive power of the soul. To discover any truth, we have only to turn our consciousness inward to the soul, whose omniscience is one with God. When those who are receptive hear someone speak truth, it seems so familiar. Their first reaction is "I thought so!". The mind has simply recognised a truth already known intuitively by the soul. Great souls who reveal to mankind deep spiritual truths receive their knowledge through direct attunement with the vibrations of those truths. Also vibrating in the ether are the concepts for every invention man has created or will create in the future. When an inventor's concentration is right, he is attuned to receive intuitively the idea vibration for the creation of his invention. The discoverers of these ideas may say that they have invented this or that, but they haven't really invented anything. They have only uncovered what was already there: the vibratory blueprint hidden in the ether. A well-known example of this phenomenon, recounted in the book Prodigal Genius, by John J. O'Neill, is the manner in which the great scientist and inventor Nikola Tesla (1856-1943) 'discovered' the principle of the rotating magnetic field - a discovery that made possible his many alternating-current devices and subsequent inventions that form the foundation of today's power and industrial systems. In 1882, while walking with a companion and reciting poetry in a Budapest park at sunset, Tesla suddenly froze into a rigid trance-like state. To his friend's dismay, Tesla soon began to speak of an inner vision: "Watch me. Watch me reverse it", he said, over and over again, in a voice bubbling with enthusiasm. The friend thought he was ill; but the great inventor later explained that he was actually 'seeing' an alternating-current motor in operation: "I have solved the problem. Can't you see it right here in front of me, running almost silently?..... No more will men be slaves to hard tasks. My motor will set them free, it will do the work of the world." Over the next few months, he continued to elaborate upon the detailed blueprints in his mind, where they remained stored for six years until he was able to put them into practical application."
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What defines the ether? I cannot find a solid definition that sets the concept in stone. Perhaps it simply refers to an undefined sense or power in the universe that is intangible. If so, it is a useless definition and is merely a facade.

Absolutely there must be some form of inherent truth, but it is beyond human cognative ability for that or any truth to be absolutely true in our minds. How does this undefined element interact with the human brain? Assuming that there is no rational demonstration of this, what is the basis?

Essentially, you are asserting: "The inherent truth exists, and therefore it is possible for the universe to communicate it directly into our brains, as ideas or a premise, without any direct or observed contact". There are many assumptions that arent productive and are easily questioned. Is there absolute inherent truth? Can people define it? How does this apply to supposed 'false prophets?'. Or outdated, yet brilliant, science?

It is simply of greater prudence to assume that the human capibility to discern the considered truth comes from our superior brain power.

An encompassing notion of great scale, yet I see no logical premise to propell it. Simply, too, truth is a human concept, fallible, and unconstant. Being that as it is, it renders this entire concept a chameleon, that changes depending on the human perspective on the truth of the said idea. To deem this as true, or factual, would be assertion. To believe it, from my current standpoint, would be... for lack of a better word, irresponsible.
 
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