Questions About My Deoxys

[Hubologist]

I traded with a Bulbagarden Forums member for a Lv.100 Deoxys today. I was told it was legit, and I've traded with him several times before, so I took that at face value. But, after doing some research, I now have my doubts.

It came in a Master Ball, and although it's Lv.100 (you're supposed to catch them at Lv.30 on that triangular island), it appears to have absolutely no EV training whatsoever (I'm not talking about specially EV trained, just the Effort Points you get from doing any old battles.) Here's what I came up with (source = Marriland's Ultimate Stat Calculator):

Deoxys Lv.100 (Normal Form) {Master Ball}
Modest (- Attack, + Sp. Attack)

NOTE: Actual = the actual stat of my Lv.100 Modest Deoxys in Normal form.

HP: 210 (Untrained Minimum)/ 227 (Actual) [+17]
Attack (-): 274 (Untrained Minimum)/ 284 (Actual) [+10]
Defense: 105 (Untrained Minimum)/ 127 (Actual) [+22]
Sp. Atk (+): 335 (Untrained Minimum)/ 336 (Actual) [+1]
Sp. Defense: 105 (Untrained Minimum)/ 134 (Actual [+29]
Speed: 305 (Untrained Minimum)/ 328 (Actual) [+23]

(Total points above the minimum for each stat = 102/ Average = 17)

To me, an average bonus value of +17 per stat indicates that this Deoxys has barely any EVs at all, if any. That looks like nothing but pure IVs to me.

So, did someone leave this Deoxys in the Day-Care for seven months, until it went from Lv.30 to Lv.100? Did they feed it 70 Rare Candies? Did they use a whole bunch of EV-reducing Berries before it reached Lv.100?

Or is it, as I suspect, a hack? Is there something I'm missing? Should he have a "Classic" Ribbon?

EDIT: It would be one thing if it was a level 30 or 50 hack. But it's level 100... I mean, seriously.

 

[Talon87]

There is no way to "know" know know. :| If you don't want it, ask that member to trade back with you. If he refuses and you feel cheated, bring it up in the Trade Thread and the community will decide for themselves whether they wish to blacklist this person or not.

Either way, it sounds like you're not very happy with your trade (since even if it is legit, a Deoxys at Level 100 with no effort is pretty useless), so you really should ask that member to trade back with you. The legitimacy (or illegitimacy) of the Pokemon shouldn't matter at this point, since you've already proven that the only way it can be legit is if it never fought at all and the bonuses you're seeing are actually its IVs.

 

[Hubologist]

There is no way to "know" know know. :| If you don't want it, ask that member to trade back with you. If he refuses and you feel cheated, bring it up in the Trade Thread and the community will decide for themselves whether they wish to blacklist this person or not.

Either way, it sounds like you're not very happy with your trade (since even if it is legit, a Deoxys at Level 100 with no effort is pretty useless), so you really should ask that member to trade back with you. The legitimacy (or illegitimacy) of the Pokemon shouldn't matter at this point, since you've already proven that the only way it can be legit is if it never fought at all and the bonuses you're seeing are actually its IVs.

Okay, but given the information I've provided and based on your own experience, would you lean towards "hacked" or "legitimate"? You don't have to answer if you don't want to, obviously, and I realize there's no way to know for certain, but I'm looking for second opinions.

It doesn't have to be a "yes" or "no" answer.

EDIT: I mean, I think it's obvious, but maybe IVs can be really low (like 2 points per stat) and you can battle for 50-70 levels and only get 400 IVs or so. I'm not sure, which is why I'm asking.

 

[Talon87]

I think the obvious answer in this case is "not hacked," actually. :|

Nobody would hack a Deoxys that had BOTH shitty SpAtt and zero effort invested in it. Usually he'd at least pump the effort but not the IV "to make it look genuine." The fact that this Deoxys has a shitty SpAtt (in spite of its Modest nature) and has shit-for-nothing effort suggests the following ...

1 - Kid got a Modest Deoxys. Sweet. Hurts his ExtremeSpeed and stuff, but hey, Special Sweeping Deoxys goooooooo!
2 - Kid finds out his SpAtt IV is 1 and says "F***. D:"
3 - Kid throws it in the Daycare / feeds it 70 Rare Candies and decides it'll be worth something in a trade.

Honestly, I can't say it's not a smart idea. It's simply ... deceitful, especially when the deal is orchestrated through a webforum. It's not like he can claim that his conscience was desperately trying to inform you of the situation but technological barriers prevented him from doing so (or some other similar poppycock we here for GTS trickery).

And finally, I can't say definitively I am right, either, and don't intend to smear anybody's name. (And am glad you haven't said his name yet, either.) I'm simply saying ... if it were me? I'd be pissed.

 

[Hubologist]

And finally, I can't say definitively I am right, either, and don't intend to smear anybody's name.

Well, considering your logic, I'm inclined to think you're probably right. It's legit, has normal IVs, but hardly any EVs at all (for whatever reason).

I'm not going to use it in competitive battles anyway (well, most of them, since most people shun ubers), and I'm not even allowed to use it in the Battle Tower... so at least I have it, it's legit, and it can still mow down the Elite 4 all by itself.

And I can do tradebacks with people I trust to help them fill their Dex.

(And am glad you haven't said his name yet, either.)

I'm nothing if not tactful... I don't want to be making accusations without any proof.

I'm simply saying ... if it were me? I'd be pissed.

Yeah, I'm kinda pissed. It means that this Deoxys is missing likely 450+ EV points, and can never, ever get them back (unless they release an item that lowers levels... please, Lord, inspire them to invent that item).

Ah, well. I'll live.

EDIT: But, considering how much more experienced this person is with the games than I am, I'll bet he took one look at its stats and instantly knew it had next to no EV training. I mean, I just started playing again two months ago, and I realized vaguely from looking at its stats that they were much lower than they should have been.

He neglected to mention this fact, and I was desperate for a Deoxys, sad to say, so... yeah. I'd like to think he didn't know, but I find that doubtful. Still, I didn't ask about its EVs (I assumed it was leveled normally, because Day-Care and Rare Candy seem totally illogical for such a rare Poke), so I guess it's at least half my own fault.

 

[Talon87]

One thing you also must realize is that he may not be the one who raised it to Level 100 without using it in any battles. He may be like you -- the recipient of a "dud Deoxys" and he simply passed it along, like a game of Hot Potato. You're faced now yourself with the ethical dilemma of ...

a) Do I keep the Hot Potato and become "the loser"? Or
b) Do I throw the Hot Potato into the next eager trainer's hands, get his valuable Pokemon in return, and restore my losses for myself?

It's a lose-lose situation, but I think the bigger man will choose Letter A. So ... it's a shame that, if this guy is your analogue, that he succumbed to Letter B. Understandable, of course .......... but shameful. :|

As for an item to lower levels ... people have been requesting it for years due to one of the game mechanics which has not changed since the RBY days: that a Pokemon, upon reaching Level 100, can no longer evolve unless his evolution is activated by being traded with a held item, touching an Evolution Stone, or other non-level-up requirements. In RBY, people wanted the item so that they could fix their Level 100 Bulbasaurs and Squirtles they'd raised for the sake of being like Ash Ketchum. In GSC, people wanted it so they could fix their Chanseys or Eevees who (for whatever bizarro reason ) had failed to evolve by Level 100. And by the time of the 3rd generation with Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald ... we had the same motivation you're voicing now. The desire to de-level Pokemon in order to re-do their effort training.

 

[Hubologist]

One thing you also must realize is that he may not be the one who raised it to Level 100 without using it in any battles. He may be like you -- the recipient of a "dud Deoxys" and he simply passed it along, like a game of Hot Potato. You're faced now yourself with the ethical dilemma of ...

Oh, I know for a fact he got it in a trade; he told me so.

a) Do I keep the Hot Potato and become "the loser"? Or
b) Do I throw the Hot Potato into the next eager trainer's hands, get his valuable Pokemon in return, and restore my losses for myself?

I would never trade someone a Pokémon with significant flaws without first informing them of the situation. Being trusted here (and elsewhere) as a trader is far more important to me than having a powerful Pokémon, because a lot of what I have now has come from trades, and I also just enjoy doing it.

It's a lose-lose situation, but I think the bigger man will choose Letter A. So ... it's a shame that, if this guy is your analogue, that he succumbed to Letter B. Understandable, of course .......... but shameful. :|

It's still possible he didn't check its stats, simply assuming that the EVs were all over the place as with any non-EV trained Pokémon... I just find it unlikely.

As for an item to lower levels ... people have been requesting it for years due to one of the game mechanics which has not changed since the RBY days: that a Pokemon, upon reaching Level 100, can no longer evolve unless his evolution is activated by being traded with a held item, touching an Evolution Stone, or other non-level-up requirements. In RBY, people wanted the item so that they could fix their Level 100 Bulbasaurs and Squirtles they'd raised for the sake of being like Ash Ketchum. In GSC, people wanted it so they could fix their Chanseys or Eevees who (for whatever bizarro reason ) had failed to evolve by Level 100. And by the time of the 3rd generation with Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald ... we had the same motivation you're voicing now. The desire to de-level Pokemon in order to re-do their effort training.

So what you're saying is that it's an ice-cube's chance in a steel forge, right?

I don't blame the programmers. Strictly speaking, EVs are intended to be hidden values; they're supposed to be distributed somewhat randomly, making a trainer's Pokémon significantly stronger than a wild one on average, but not planned out deliberately to have 252 EV points on two stats and 6 on HP, making them battle tanks or glass cannons.

 

[Talon87]

I'm simply saying that there are few fan demands left from the 1st generation of games which have not already been granted. Regarding the few ungranted wishes which remain, it's up to you whether to hold on to hope that the day will come where your wish will become reality or to accept that GameFreak heard your wishes long ago and long ago voted against them.

It could happen. I'm just saying I wouldn't spend any emotion banking on it. Better to be pleasantly surprised when it does happen rather than to eternally long for something that's never going to come ...

 

[GuitarHero]

Yeah, I'm kinda pissed. It means that this Deoxys is missing likely 450+ EV points, and can never, ever get them back (unless they release an item that lowers levels... please, Lord, inspire them to invent that item).

I'll jump in here and say one thing. I'm pretty sure you can still ev train a pokemon that is lvl 100, (If you were wanting to) it has something to do with taking it in and out of the box ALOT of times. Google it if your interested, (once again not 100 precent sure but I'm pretty sure)

 

[Hubologist]

I'll jump in here and say one thing. I'm pretty sure you can still ev train a pokemon that is lvl 100, (If you were wanting to) it has something to do with taking it in and out of the box ALOT of times. Google it if your interested, (once again not 100 precent sure but I'm pretty sure)

Yeah, a friend PM'ed me and told me a trick that worked on Gen. 3, so I'll try it.

For the record (since I know the guy I traded with is going to read this eventually), I'm not angry with you, and I'm not going to tell everybody you're horrible and untrustworthy. And I do still appreciate the trade.

I just wish you had told me first before we sealed the deal. If you really didn't know about its EVs, then you've done nothing wrong.

 

[Talon87]

I'll jump in here and say one thing. I'm pretty sure you can still ev train a pokemon that is lvl 100, (If you were wanting to) it has something to do with taking it in and out of the box ALOT of times. Google it if your interested, (once again not 100 precent sure but I'm pretty sure)

Did not know that. I have a Ditto who is at Level 89, so it'll be interesting once "she" hits Level 100 to see if I can't effort train her still. If this is the case, then ...

1 - the entire discussion so far is bridge under the water; your Deoxys is not only salvageable, but quite useable. A shabby SpAtt IV and a nature that cuts 10% from Att, but hey, he's still pretty pumped either way, and like you said, NOBODY is going to allow you to use Deoxys outside of novelty battles anyway, so his weakness can just be "your little secret."

2 - this could be great news for anyone who's ever raised a Pokemon to Level 100 in the Daycare and then decided they wanted to actually use it (again, most likely for novelty value, since it's hard to imagine trying to raise a Pokemon you really like in the Daycare once it gets past Level 50. @_@ Would take more biking than it's worth, you'd be better off cloning candies or even earning experience the old fashioned way.)

 

[la5tchanc3]

Hey, I'll go ahead and admit that I am the one who traded him for Deoxys. I had no intention to piss him off. I was just trying to be nice and get him a Deoxys while trying to test this "system", or ladder(I have no idea what to call it) I had thought up.

What I did was take a Moltres I had caught on FR and put it up on GTS for a Dialga, and since the new restrictions forbid giving people hacked for a pokemon that is offered up, I thought I'd be fine. So with Moltres on the GTS, I waited for a trade. It didn't take long at all to get one. From there I then put up the new Dialga for a Rayquaza. I waited for that, and it didn't take very long either. I then put up Rayquaza for Mew, I got that, and then Mew for Deoxys. That Deoxys that Hubologist is talking about is the one I recieved. I did all of this so I could get him a Deoxys for a low cost. We then traded and I thought everything was just fine. I did not bother to go in depth with his stats, I just glanced at them.

I know very little about EVs or IVs. All I know about them is that they make a pokemon stronger and determine strength. I know that the Pokerus and certain items help this along, and that is about it.
The way I raise my pokemon is just give them the pokerus, then level them up. A few of them I will give Carbos, Iron, etc. until its maxed out. I just know that they will be stronger than a normal pokemon, so I like that.

If I did know anything else about EVs and EV training I would've checked its stats and let Hubologist know about it. I didn't intend to bring any harm to him because I didn't even know about that.

I do not see how it can't be legit since I received it through GTS by putting it up. Nor do I know how the EVs could've been messed up. But I AM willing to do the trade back, or give you my level 32 Deoxys, as a replacement of the lv 100 or you can keep both for the inconvenience, I also received the exact same way.

Once again, I'm extremely sorry, and I did not mean for any of this to happen, and I am really glad you aren't mad at me.

EDIT: But, considering how much more experienced this person is with the games than I am, I'll bet he took one look at its stats and instantly knew it had next to no EV training. I mean, I just started playing again two months ago, and I realized vaguely from looking at its stats that they were much lower than they should have been.

Really the only experience I have is that I have played pokemon since it first came out when I was 8. I've played every generation, and I know the weakness' and strength's of almost every pokemon. I also got the game like a week after it came out, so I've had extra time. And like I said earlier, I know that a ton of EVs makes for a strong pokemon. I didn't even find out about EVs and all that other stuff until about a month after I got my game. I still have no clue about it.

 

[Hubologist]

Like I said, if you didn't know, then it's not your fault. I can't blame you (or demand a trade-back) for something you didn't know, and I don't blame you. I just didn't expect a legit level 100 Deoxys with no EV training, you know what I'm saying? (Because to do that, you basically need lots of Rare Candy and tons of Day-Care time, which... I don't even know why someone would do that.)

If you didn't know, then none of the potentially defamatory things I've said about you actually apply. So don't worry about it -- really.

I mean, if you WANT to give me the level 32 as a tradeback... I wouldn't complain. But since you've come out in public (which you didn't need to do) and offered to fix the problem, I believe you didn't know about EVs and stuff, so there's no need.

 

[la5tchanc3]

Like I said, if you didn't know, then it's not your fault. I can't blame you (or demand a trade-back) for something you didn't know, and I don't blame you. I just didn't expect a legit level 100 Deoxys with no EV training, you know what I'm saying? (Because to do that, you basically need lots of Rare Candy and tons of Day-Care time, which... I don't even know why someone would do that.)

If you didn't know, then none of the potentially defamatory things I've said about you actually apply. So don't worry about it -- really.


I mean, if you WANT to give me the level 32 as a tradeback... I wouldn't complain. But since you've come out in public (which you didn't need to do) and offered to fix the problem, I believe you didn't know about EVs and stuff, so there's no need.

Well what I think could've happened is something like I did. When I played Red, Blue, Yellow and Gold, I was real little. I had a GameShark and I thought I would use it to it's full potential. I would clone Rare Candies or fix it to 99 of them and I would just level a pokemon up like that. I didn't know they wouldn't be near as strong so I just did that.
It's a possibility that some little kid got a legit Deoxys and did the exact same thing I used to do. Then they could've put it on there DS and then trade it willingly for that Mew.

Like I said, I will trade the lvl 32 Deoxys to correct it. I'm in the middle of trying that ladder thing to get another one anyways. Its actually working, but would you still be willing to finish the trade once you got the Kyogre and Groudon

 

[Hubologist]

Like I said, I will trade the lvl 32 Deoxys to correct it. I'm in the middle of trying that ladder thing to get another one anyways. Its actually working, but would you still be willing to finish the trade once you got the Kyogre and Groudon

Okay, I sent you a PM about it (Shuko will come in and spank us if we discuss trading in this thread, heh).

 

[Typhlosion In Repose]

Hubologist, you can talk to the woman at the bazaar in Sunnyshore city. If deoxys has full EVs, she will give you an effort ribbon. If not, she says you need to work harder.

 

[Hubologist]

Hubologist, you can talk to the woman at the bazaar in Sunnyshore city. If deoxys has full EVs, she will give you an effort ribbon. If not, she says you need to work harder.

Oh, I've known that for a while now. That's the very first thing I did when I noticed the Deoxys' stats, and of course she said he "needs to work harder".

In any case, this issue is all water under the bridge now. I regret my suspicions regarding la5tchanc3; they were clearly unfounded, and my assessment of him as being a much more experienced player than I am was a mistake. That perception stemmed from the fact that he was able to trade for not just one legit Deoxys, but two of them, and in only a day's time. (I don't use the GTS at all, so that very likely has something to do with it.)

Any hubbub surrounding this issue is entirely my fault for making false assumptions with insufficient information. Granted, I would not have named names except under the most extreme circumstances, but I jumped to a lot of different conclusions that I probably shouldn't have. I ought to have just stuck with asking about the Deoxys' stats and whether or not it might be hacked.

If I've cheesed anyone off by making this rather self-centered thread, I sincerely apologize (but hey, now more people know about PC Box EV training, and that's a good thing). For our part, la5tchanc3 and I re-negotiated a slightly different (but still satisfying for both sides) trade, and there are no hard feelings.

*cue magical, everyone-wins scene from the end of an '80s movie* ;-)