Rain Dance team: E_D style

[ShinyFlareon]

Since that whole 'theory team' thread of mine didn't work out, not to mention that the teams are no longer theories and I don't make teams a whole lot anyway, I figured I'd just post a new thread like everyone else. Now for my team:

Bronzong@Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
Impish nature
252 HP/128 Def/128 SDef OR 252 HP/128 Atk/128 Def

-- Rain Dance
-- Hypnosis
-- Stealth Rock
-- Toxic/Explosion

Pretty self explanatory...lead comes in, sets up SR and Rain Dance, probably putting something to sleep in the process. Toxic helps spread status around, Explosion gives me an attack to Taunt can't wall me. Bronzong is sturdy enough to keep coming in and setting up Rain Dance for a while, so I won't necessarily Explode right away.

Electrode@Focus Sash/Damp Rock
Ability: ???
Hasty nature
4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Speed
-- Rain Dance
-- Thunder
-- Taunt
-- Screech/Mirror Coat/Explosion

Secondary Rain Dance support, and Thunder gets a nice 100% accuracy in the rain. Taunt stops things setting up on me. The last move is kinda up in the air...Screech and Mirror Coat go great with Focus Sash, while Explosion may net me an extra KO. Attack EVs can go from HP and a bit of special attack if I go for Explosion, while 252 in speed almost guarantees that I'm going first.

Floatzel@Choice Band/Life Orb
Jolly
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
-- Brick Break
-- Ice Fang
-- Crunch
-- Waterfall

Standard Physical Sweeper, here. Not a lot to say, really.

Lanturn@Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Calm/Modest
176 SpA / 252 SpD / 80 Spe

-- Thunder
-- Surf
-- Ice Beam
-- Thunder Wave/Toxic

Toxic only goes in if I don't put it on Bronzong. Sort of a cross between a Special wall and a Special Sweeper.

Ludicolo@Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
Calm/Modest
204 HP / 76 SpA / 124 SpD / 104 Spe

-- Surf
-- Leech Seed
-- Grass Knot
-- Focus Blast

Between this guy and Lanturn, I've got all my special bases covered. Focus Blast is for Blissey, Surf and Grass Knot are for STAB, and Leech Seed is for recovery and to hopefully force a couple switches.

Empoleon@Life Orb
Adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

-- Swords Dance
-- Aqua Jet
-- Drill Peck
-- Earthquake

Secondary physical backup, and bulky enough to come in as needed. Life Orb over Choice Band to ensure I don't loose by Swords Dance boosts, and over Leftovers because I can just bring this in on something that's been Leech Seeded to be healed up. Flying/Ground/Water gets decent enough coverage.

 

[The Outrage]

Seriously, 252/128/128 defensive spreads never work out. In Bronzong's case, it is better to maximise Hit Points, but the defenses should be mroe spread out to one side depending on what you need it to do, or the current trend of leads (are they more physical or special?).

The lack of Leftovers on it will hurt Bronzong in the long run, as does the lack of any offensive moves, especially when it comes to a taunter.

Honeestly, I'd rather use a suicide lead like your Electrode. It has the luxury of being fast enough to set up rain before being killed by Sand Stream users, and it has Magicoat for those who yout hink might be trying to spread status around. I honestly would not use Screech on it. The current set up you have now is good, but you may also want to consider both Explosion and Magic Coat.

If you are going to use Explosion, divert some speed EVs, it doesn't need all of that. You can divert just enough to outspeed common Scarf leads that you are able to beat, or just to beat 130 base speed users. Its not as if you will ever beat Ninjask, and other Electrode aren't too common, and even if they are, they can barely do anything to each other.

Oh yeah, and use Focus Sash on it.

 

[Cloud354]

Since that whole 'theory team' thread of mine didn't work out, not to mention that the teams are no longer theories and I don't make teams a whole lot anyway, I figured I'd just post a new thread like everyone else. Now for my team:

Bronzong@Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
Impish nature
252 HP/128 Def/128 SDef OR 252 HP/128 Atk/128 Def

-- Rain Dance
-- Hypnosis
-- Stealth Rock
-- Toxic/Explosion

Pretty self explanatory...lead comes in, sets up SR and Rain Dance, probably putting something to sleep in the process. Toxic helps spread status around, Explosion gives me an attack to Taunt can't wall me. Bronzong is sturdy enough to keep coming in and setting up Rain Dance for a while, so I won't necessarily Explode right away.

Electrode@Focus Sash/Damp Rock
Ability: ???
Hasty nature
4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Speed
-- Rain Dance
-- Thunder
-- Taunt
-- Screech/Mirror Coat/Explosion

Secondary Rain Dance support, and Thunder gets a nice 100% accuracy in the rain. Taunt stops things setting up on me. The last move is kinda up in the air...Screech and Mirror Coat go great with Focus Sash, while Explosion may net me an extra KO. Attack EVs can go from HP and a bit of special attack if I go for Explosion, while 252 in speed almost guarantees that I'm going first.

Floatzel@Choice Band/Life Orb
Jolly
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
-- Brick Break
-- Ice Fang
-- Crunch
-- Waterfall

Standard Physical Sweeper, here. Not a lot to say, really.

Lanturn@Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Calm/Modest
176 SpA / 252 SpD / 80 Spe

-- Thunder
-- Surf
-- Ice Beam
-- Thunder Wave/Toxic

Toxic only goes in if I don't put it on Bronzong. Sort of a cross between a Special wall and a Special Sweeper.

Ludicolo@Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
Calm/Modest
204 HP / 76 SpA / 124 SpD / 104 Spe

-- Surf
-- Leech Seed
-- Grass Knot
-- Focus Blast

Between this guy and Lanturn, I've got all my special bases covered. Focus Blast is for Blissey, Surf and Grass Knot are for STAB, and Leech Seed is for recovery and to hopefully force a couple switches.

Empoleon@Life Orb
Adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

-- Swords Dance
-- Aqua Jet
-- Drill Peck
-- Earthquake

Secondary physical backup, and bulky enough to come in as needed. Life Orb over Choice Band to ensure I don't loose by Swords Dance boosts, and over Leftovers because I can just bring this in on something that's been Leech Seeded to be healed up. Flying/Ground/Water gets decent enough coverage.

Seriously, 252/128/128 defensive spreads never work out. In Bronzong's case, it is better to maximise Hit Points, but the defenses should be mroe spread out to one side depending on what you need it to do, or the current trend of leads (are they more physical or special?).

The lack of Leftovers on it will hurt Bronzong in the long run, as does the lack of any offensive moves, especially when it comes to a taunter.

Honeestly, I'd rather use a suicide lead like your Electrode. It has the luxury of being fast enough to set up rain before being killed by Sand Stream users, and it has Magicoat for those who yout hink might be trying to spread status around. I honestly would not use Screech on it. The current set up you have now is good, but you may also want to consider both Explosion and Magic Coat.

If you are going to use Explosion, divert some speed EVs, it doesn't need all of that. You can divert just enough to outspeed common Scarf leads that you are able to beat, or just to beat 130 base speed users. Its not as if you will ever beat Ninjask, and other Electrode aren't too common, and even if they are, they can barely do anything to each other.

Oh yeah, and use Focus Sash on it.

This is not a bad team except for a few problems and i agree with outrage, Bronzong here is mostly a defensive since it gets it's defense from its steel half and explosion need to have a better SPATK since it's a special move unless you are up against a ghost type then it is useless.

Electrode there is pretty decent but if use are going to use explosion you need to sacrifice some speed for SPATK for maximum benifits.

Here's what I recommend for moves:

Bronzong:
Rain Dance
Hypnosis
Stealth Rock
Psycic/Mirror Coat/ Light Screen

Electrode is fine with Explosion

Floatzel is ok

Lanturn is fine

Ludicolo is fine

Empoleon is good

(basically the Bronzong is the only one that needs changing)

 

[Tina]

explosion need to have a better SPATK since it's a special move

Uhh, no. Explosion's a Physical move. >_> Where'd you get the idea it's special?

 

[ShinyFlareon]

All right...Leftovers is definitely an option for Bronzong, but since it's primary purpose will be continuously coming in throughout the match to set up Rain Dance after it runs out the first time, I think I'll keep a Damp Rock on it. Also looking at this again, both of my set uppers of Rain Dance are exploders. >.> that's probably not a good thing. So...

Bronzong@Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
Relaxed
252 HP/160 Def/32 SDef
-- Rain Dance
-- Hypnosis
-- Stealth Rock
-- Gyro Ball

Switching to a Relaxed nature for Gyro Ball, and again, once I get Ludicolo out and seeding, I can always bring him in on something that's seeded for a bit of recovery. It may not be as efficient as Leftovers, but it'll get the job done.

For Electrode, yeah, he still needs work. I don't know what to put Magic Coat over, if I do put it in -- maybe Taunt? Also can't really come up with an EV spread...I'll definitely go with Focus Sash on him, though.

 

[empoleon dynamite]

might I suggest a Dragon/Flying Pokemon over Lanturn. Lanturn doesn't seem to help many of your weaknesses and i'm only singling him out because he's UU.

Dragon/Flying types work well with Steel/Psychic (the 'ol Jirachi/Mence team) and it covers your Ground and Fighting weakness. Possibly Mence with Aqua Tail (Although you have enough water coverage). Just a thought.

Also, E_D is my nickname fool!

 

[Tina]

Looking at this team a little closer, not all Pokemon need to be a Water-type to take advantage of Rain Dance. Just saying. =P

You should probably drop Focus Blast on Ludicolo for Substitute and run a Calm nature, as I don't think that Ludicolo could do anything to Blissey with Focus Blast, but that's just an estimate..

If you're up for hunting down someone with Platinum, I'd run Ice Punch over Ice Fang on Floatzel.

Hmm, can't think of much else right now in the way of suggestions, though. =/ I'll probably come back to this later when I'm not multitasking..

 

[Cloud354]

All right...Leftovers is definitely an option for Bronzong, but since it's primary purpose will be continuously coming in throughout the match to set up Rain Dance after it runs out the first time, I think I'll keep a Damp Rock on it. Also looking at this again, both of my set uppers of Rain Dance are exploders. >.> that's probably not a good thing. So...

Bronzong@Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
Relaxed
252 HP/160 Def/32 SDef
-- Rain Dance
-- Hypnosis
-- Stealth Rock
-- Gyro Ball

Switching to a Relaxed nature for Gyro Ball, and again, once I get Ludicolo out and seeding, I can always bring him in on something that's seeded for a bit of recovery. It may not be as efficient as Leftovers, but it'll get the job done.

For Electrode, yeah, he still needs work. I don't know what to put Magic Coat over, if I do put it in -- maybe Taunt? Also can't really come up with an EV spread...I'll definitely go with Focus Sash on him, though.

Giro Ball with Bronzong is well suited for it, Since traditionally it's a defensive pokemon(i.e. Pelliper a defensive pokemon) so it's natural for it to know Giro Ball

 

[empoleon dynamite]

Decided to do a full blown team rate since i've seen a few things that I can help with.

Bronzong@Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
Impish nature
252 HP/128 Def/128 SDef OR 252 HP/128 Atk/128 Def

-- Rain Dance
-- Hypnosis
-- Stealth Rock
-- Explosion

Hmm, I'd defonitly suggest Explosion over Toxic, Toxic may sound nice but you wont be keeping Zong in for long due to its lack of recovery and the fact his main goal is setting up RD for another Pokemon.

Alternativly, there's Jirachi. Jirachi is similar to Bronzong in that it makes a good RDer. Not only this, it has wish (A nice recovery move and support move). Here's the set you'd be interested in:

~ Rain Dance
~ Thunder
~ U-turn / Water Pulse / Psychic
~ Wish

Electrode@Damp Rock
Ability: ???
Hasty nature
4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Speed
-- Rain Dance
-- Thunder
-- Taunt
-- Explosion

Focus sash doesn't seem very effective on a Pokemon with medocre defences, which is why I also thaought Mirror Coat was a bad idea. I must know, why would you give "Screech" to a Pokemon with know phisical attacks? Once your set is scouted, I doubt people would bother switching. To be honest, Electrode is pretty meh in general to me :/

Floatzel@Choice Band/Life Orb
Jolly
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
-- Brick Break
-- Ice Fang
-- Crunch
-- Waterfall

Nothing to say either, it's fine

Lanturn@Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Calm/Modest
176 SpA / 252 SpD / 80 Spe

-- Thunder
-- Surf
-- Ice Beam
-- Thunder Wave/Toxic

A pretty bad Pokemon in general IMO, especialy if this team is meant for OU. I'd suggest replacing it with Salamence or Dragonite who are both quite popular on RD teams

Ludicolo@Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
Calm/Modest
204 HP / 76 SpA / 124 SpD / 104 Spe

-- Dive
-- Leech Seed
-- Toxic
-- Substitute/Rain Dance

Focus Blast will not bother Blissey (The lack of PP/Accuracy and the fact it probibly would be a 4-3HKO), Toxic and Leech seed will bother her however. Substitute blocks status whilst Dive helps stall opponants, just as long as you can get Plat. In this case, you'd obviously want to change the EV's. Also, Rain Dance would be important for long stalls.

Empoleon@Life Orb
Adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

-- Swords Dance
-- Aqua Jet
-- Drill Peck
-- Return

I'm sure you've heard it before, only a small handful of Pokemon resist the water/normal combo. Most of them you shouldn't be facing with Empoleon anyway. He's not bad, I prefare a Sub Pataya set more though :/

Changes in bold. It's a good team, just a few problems. Also, don't expect switching for leech seed recovery to do you any favours. Factors such as Stealth Rock/ Spikes/ TSpikes will put a dampner on that, not to mention the opponant switching or attacking.

Giro Ball with Bronzong is well suited for it, Since traditionally it's a defensive pokemon(i.e. Pelliper a defensive pokemon) so it's natural for it to know Giro Ball

Steel = Bad coverage

 

[The Outrage]

Honestly, do you really need to quote the entire first post when you aren't even making comments in between the posts somewhere? The whole point of having an RMT forum rather than a single thread is so we wouldn't have people doing that >_>

WHat empoleon dynamite did is fine.

Oh yeah, also Swift Swim is generally better on Ludicolo than Rain Dish any day. By being able to use Dive first, you are protecting your Substitute from being hit and destroyed. If your opponent is weak enough, and rain is up, Dive will even allow you to OHKO them before they can hit your substitute.

Ludicolo shouldn't be able to do anything to Blissey with a Focus Blast considering that Lucario needs a +1 boost in special attack before Blissey is threatened by it. YOu could also run the Sub-Punch Leech Seed set along with Surf, but I prefer the stall set e_p suggested.

 

[Tina]

lol Everyone's forgetting that Dive's physical now and to change the nature.

Remember to run a Careful/Adamant nature and shift the EVs from SpAtk to Atk if you're using Dive.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

One question: can't I get dive on a Lombre/Ludicolo in Emerald and Pal Park it? I'm stuck with 'Zong, can't get Jirachi unless there's some method other than giveaways that I don't know about. Also, as stated before, I'm not too keen on both my Rain Dancers being Exploders (if I can't get Dive on Ludi from Emerald). I may just ditch Zong for that aspect, or more probably Electrode.

I like Lanturn, though, I was trying to think of a good way to put one on a team. I try and predict a couple electric attacks and heal up, then let loose. I love Dragonite and all, and I'm actually setting up a trade with someone for a Bagon with Hydro Pump, so I could use the Dragon/Flyer, I guess. But I'd really like to find a way to work in Lanturn.

 

[Tina]

Dive's a Platinum move tutor as well.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Dive's a Platinum move tutor as well.

So it is available in Emerald? Sweetness. ^_^

 

[Mr. Black]

Since that whole 'theory team' thread of mine didn't work out, not to mention that the teams are no longer theories and I don't make teams a whole lot anyway, I figured I'd just post a new thread like everyone else. Now for my team:

Bronzong@Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
Impish nature
252 HP/128 Def/128 SDef OR 252 HP/128 Atk/128 Def

-- Rain Dance
-- Hypnosis
-- Stealth Rock
-- Toxic/Explosion

Pretty self explanatory...lead comes in, sets up SR and Rain Dance, probably putting something to sleep in the process. Toxic helps spread status around, Explosion gives me an attack to Taunt can't wall me. Bronzong is sturdy enough to keep coming in and setting up Rain Dance for a while, so I won't necessarily Explode right away.

Electrode@Focus Sash/Damp Rock
Ability: ???
Hasty nature
4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Speed
-- Rain Dance
-- Thunder
-- Taunt
-- Screech/Mirror Coat/Explosion

Secondary Rain Dance support, and Thunder gets a nice 100% accuracy in the rain. Taunt stops things setting up on me. The last move is kinda up in the air...Screech and Mirror Coat go great with Focus Sash, while Explosion may net me an extra KO. Attack EVs can go from HP and a bit of special attack if I go for Explosion, while 252 in speed almost guarantees that I'm going first.

Floatzel@Choice Band/Life Orb
Jolly
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
-- Brick Break
-- Ice Fang
-- Crunch
-- Waterfall

Standard Physical Sweeper, here. Not a lot to say, really.

Lanturn@Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Calm/Modest
176 SpA / 252 SpD / 80 Spe

-- Thunder
-- Surf
-- Ice Beam
-- Thunder Wave/Toxic

Toxic only goes in if I don't put it on Bronzong. Sort of a cross between a Special wall and a Special Sweeper.

Ludicolo@Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
Calm/Modest
204 HP / 76 SpA / 124 SpD / 104 Spe

-- Surf
-- Leech Seed
-- Grass Knot
-- Focus Blast

Between this guy and Lanturn, I've got all my special bases covered. Focus Blast is for Blissey, Surf and Grass Knot are for STAB, and Leech Seed is for recovery and to hopefully force a couple switches.

Empoleon@Life Orb
Adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

-- Swords Dance
-- Aqua Jet
-- Drill Peck
-- Earthquake

Secondary physical backup, and bulky enough to come in as needed. Life Orb over Choice Band to ensure I don't loose by Swords Dance boosts, and over Leftovers because I can just bring this in on something that's been Leech Seeded to be healed up. Flying/Ground/Water gets decent enough coverage.

Focus Blast on Ludicolo does not help against Blissey AT ALL. Never make that mistake. Put Rain Dance on Lanturn, with Damp Rock, and personally I prefer Hydro Pump for maximum power, making up for Lanturn's lack of SpA.

I am VERY curious of the point of a Rain Dance team without Swift Swimmers. Kingdra, Gorebyss and Kabutops are all huge threats in Rain Dance teams, being very strong and almost unbeatable in Spe in the Rain. I STRONGLY suggest using something along those lines, as it is basically the reason to use Rain Dance and the biggest advantage you can get out of it.

That's all for now but I'll come back later when I have more time to debrief thoroughly.

Oh and quickly, do NOT use Dive. No matter what, don't use Dive, even on Ludicolo. It gives your opponent a free turn to do whatever they want, WAY too easy to take complete advantage of.

 

[Tina]

So it is available in Emerald? Sweetness. ^_^

No, no. The only way you can get Dive Ludicolo is through the Platinum tutor. You can't Pal Park a Pokemon with an HM (Gen III exclusive or not)

 

[empoleon dynamite]

Oh and quickly, do NOT use Dive. No matter what, don't use Dive, even on Ludicolo. It gives your opponent a free turn to do whatever they want, WAY too easy to take complete advantage of.

I beg to differ, although moves like Fly and Dive are considered bad, it's a different story for Ludicolo. Ludicolo is a superb Toxi-staller and using dive allows poison to take a tole on the opponants team. With a substitute up, there isn't much good in the opponant switching - since you can just Toxic/Seed them. If anything, you want your opponant to switch, you can spread around poison, scout there team and give them stealth rock damage.

If your thinking of things such as your opponant stating up, that's not what stalling Pokemon are suppost to counter. They're suppost to counter other walls such as Blissey. Obviously a Ludicolo couldn't take on DD-Mence, regardless of Dive.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

No, no. The only way you can get Dive Ludicolo is through the Platinum tutor. You can't Pal Park a Pokemon with an HM (Gen III exclusive or not)

Damn. I guess I misunderstood somewhere, I thought it could learn it in Emerald too.

Focus Blast on Ludicolo does not help against Blissey AT ALL. Never make that mistake. Put Rain Dance on Lanturn, with Damp Rock, and personally I prefer Hydro Pump for maximum power, making up for Lanturn's lack of SpA.

Well, unless I can find someone who'll be willing to trade me a Platinum Ludicolo, having one kinda goes out the window anyway -- I'm limited to what it can get in Emerald and Diamond. What do you suggest I put Rain Dance over on Lanturn -- Ice Beam?

I am VERY curious of the point of a Rain Dance team without Swift Swimmers. Kingdra, Gorebyss and Kabutops are all huge threats in Rain Dance teams, being very strong and almost unbeatable in Spe in the Rain. I STRONGLY suggest using something along those lines, as it is basically the reason to use Rain Dance and the biggest advantage you can get out of it.

Um...Floatzel's got Swift Swim. It's been suggested that I give it to Ludicolo, too, if I manage to get one with Dive. Really good suggestions, though -- Kingdra is definitely a strong second choice if something doesn't work right, and I've always kinda wanted to use a Kabutops outside of my Yellow Version. ^_^ Didn't realize Gorebyss could be such a threat, though.

 

[The Outrage]

Oh and quickly, do NOT use Dive. No matter what, don't use Dive, even on Ludicolo. It gives your opponent a free turn to do whatever they want, WAY too easy to take complete advantage of.

Dive was a godsend for Ludicolo back then in the advanced generation, and it still is now. Unlike Dig, there is very little actually immune to Dive, and those who are do little to no damage to Ludicolo itself, allowing it to outstall them in most cases.

Many people have been clamouring for its return, and now it has. It works something to the extent of Stalrein, except with double status inflicting damages found in Toxic and Leech Seed and with Protect replaced with Dive. In the rain, it is a decent enough move, gaining what is essentially a double STAB.

Yes, it has its ups and downs, but so do things like CM ResTalk Suicune who only uses Surf as its offensive. The way Ludicolo is structured would allow Emerald Dragonite to use more entry hazard moves such as spikes. Either the opponent risks dying by staying in, or they switch out and recieve more damage.

Sure, ti gives them a free turn to do whatever they want, but in essence, so does Stalrein's Protect, which is easily predictable in itself. They can set up, but then they are poisoned and possibly Leech Seeded when Ludicolo has started to use Dive. With this excess amount of damage, would they really risk waiting for that hit, only to have Ludicolo hide another turn, or will they switch another Pokémon in?

That is why this Pokemon can work so well with other entry hazard and stall-based teams. With a Tentacruel, one would be able to set up both Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin potentially leaving a spot open on Ludicolo to use Rain Dance on its own, or to even use Focus Punch to outstall Blisseys.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Well, I just put up an 'ad', so to speak, for something in the Lotad line with Dive on the Trade Coordination thread, but I also just today procured a Bagon with Dragon Dance and Hydro Pump. Methinks a Salamence would be a decent replacement should I not obtain a Diving Ludicolo?

Salamence@???
Lonely nature
EVs: ???
-- Hyrdo Pump
-- Dragon Claw
-- Fire Blast
-- Brick Break