Rate my Team: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew

[Trouble]

This is my first somewhat-informed attempt at competitive battling. This is a B/W team with no Pokemon that were introduced in B/W. I read some literature, so let me know what you think!

OU Team: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew

1. Inner Focus Lucario @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
Name: Physical Sweeper
Moves: Close Combat, Crunch, Blaze Kick, Ice Punch

This Pokemon needed to have it all, and he does! He's got no boosting moves, but that's going to come later. My strategy with Lucario is highly dependent on Mew, thus the name of this team. Close Combat gives him STAB for general sweeping purposes. I gave him Ice Punch if he needed to deal with any Dragon or Ground-types, Blaze Kick because I'm terrified of a Swords Dance Scizor, and Shadow Claw to deal with any Psychic types around. That said, because of the item I gave him, he'd have to switch out if he starts with anything but Close Combat and is faced with anything that resists any of the other three moves that he chose. Regardless, he's set to be the star of the show!

2. Liquid Ooze Tentacruel @ Poison Barb
Bold Nature
252 HP/240 Def/16 Speed
Name: Supporter
Moves: Scald, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, Sludge Bomb

Toxic Spikes are a given for Tentacruel. Scald is given him for STAB and to burn anything that is immune to Toxic Spikes. Rapid Spin, of course, to get rid of entry hazards, and Sludge Bomb for STAB coverage against Grass-Types (if needed), equipped with the Poison Barb. Obviously, he's not equipped to sweep or anything, but he can hold his own if it comes down to the wire and he's pitted against anything other than an electric-, ground-, or psychic-type. His main goal is status ailments, and he'll do the job wonderfully. He can also switch into any fire-type attack that Lucario doesn't want to take, which is the original reason I chose him.

3. Sturdy Skarmory
Careful Nature
252 HP/232 spD/24 Speed
Name: Special Wall
Moves: Roost, Spikes, Whirlwind, Drill Peck*

Can't decide which item to give Skarmory, but here's my Pokemon (Leftovers, Shed Shell, the two smogon-suggested items are the only ones I'm considering). Anyhow, he's built to take the special hits more than anything, and he should do the job well. This is pretty much the classic Smogon Skarmory, chosen for his resistance to everything Lucario doesn't aside form the Fire-type. He's able to switch right into those Ground-Type moves that Tentacruel and Lucario can't, and won't take super-effective damage from Stealth Rock like most Pokemon that are immune to Ground-Type moves.

4. Sturdy Donphan @ Leftovers
Impish Nature
252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Name: Physical Tank
Moves: Earthquake, Roar, Stone Edge, Stealth Rock

Donphan is my all-time favorite fully-evolved Pokemon (my all-time favorite of all being Phanpy), so he had to make an appearance on my team. Taking physical hits, and capable of dishing some out, as well as setting up Stealth Rock, he fits right in for his purpose to switch into the electric-type attacks that Tentacruel and Skarmory can't handle.

5. Synchronize Mew @ Lum Berry
Name: Baton Passer
Bold Nature
252 HP/188 Def/68 Speed
Moves: Baton Pass, Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, Psychic

The mystery of Mew... if you din't know the whole moveset of my Mew as my opponent, it would be a mystery. My favorite Gen1 Pokemon makes an appearance as it's no longer banned to Ubers in B/W. Mew is actually capable of setting itself up to dish out some heavy special hits, but that's not what it's here for. Mew is here to support Lucario and the other sweeper, Gengar. Using Nasty Plot or Swords Dance, it's set to Baton Pass to either one, or use Psychic to take out opponents if necessary. With a base 100 Speed to begin with, it can outpace a good amount of Pokemon already in order to set up a good baton pass with Swords Dance or Nasty Plot.

6. Levitate Gengar @ Black Sludge
Timid Nature
4HP/252 spA/ 252 Speed
Name: Substitute/Special Sweeper
Moves: Substitute, Disable, Shadow Ball, Energy Ball

If Lucario is somehow staring at an already set-up Fighting-Type sweeper, this is the back-up plan. Immune to the Fighting-Type, and resistant to it still with the use of Odor-Sleuth, and able to outpace most Fighting-Type Pokemon, he's ready to set up a substitute, and, hopefully with Nasty Plot behind him, dish out some serious special damage. Not to mention Disable for taking out any moves that may be a threat to him. Energy ball is there to deal with Ground/Water types.

All these included, the only coverage I don't have is against the water/flying type. Any Gyarados user is going to give me a hard time, and a Scrafty would have a lot to say to either one of my sweepers unless Lucario was already set up to use Close Combat. Either way, here's my first shot at a team. What does the Bulbapedia community think?

 

[AshK]

I like what you did with Mew. I never though of doing that before and it seems like a very useful idea. If you are worried about swords dance scizor you can always use Donphan and just roar it out. But of course blaze kick can work too.

 

[Team Galactic]

The way you use Energy Ball on your Gengar is a good idea, I never thought of that. But also consider Thunderbolt because, as you said, Gyarados might cause some trouble. Other than that, it looks mighty fine to me.

 

[Trouble]

Wow! Thanks for the positive feedback! It took a lot of research, because in terms of competitive battling, my knowledge was at level 0. I finally found this blog article that explained it in a very well-formatted and relate-able kind of way portraying the sweeper as "the star," and everything else around it helping its function. I picked that up immediately and put Lucario at center-stage, and it all came together finally.

In my game, it's going to take some work to get all the items required, and I'm even missing a few TM's, and chain breeding a move like Blaze Kick or Ice Punch to Lucario is going to take a good amount of time. Not to mention breeding the Pokemon with those ideal natures and such. Regardless, I'm going to get it done and be ready to compete with the team, and I love the team name... too bad I never saw the movie.

And I am heavily considering Thunderbolt, but my only concern is the Water/Ground type, as without Energy Ball, they wall everything I have. Gyarados isn't a complete wall though as I have Donphan which should be able to take the hits from Gyarados well because of his defense and the fact that Gyarados is primarily a physical attacker. Then Donphan can use use Stone Edge. Not to mention, if Donphan has had a chance to set out Stealth Rock before Gyarados' arrival, Lucario may be able to OHKO or 2HKO with Ice Punch or even Shadow Claw when I switch out.

 

[Space Opera]

@Trouble

Let's start from the beginning.

For your Lucario, especially seeing as it's a Choice Scarf set, its ability Inner Focus would be more beneficial. Steadfast is a good ability, but not much use on the set that you're running, and isn't used much on Lucario in general - having another Speed boost, seeing as it's holding a Choice Scarf, isn't that helpful. A lot of the common moves that induce flinching - Fake Out, Air Slash, Rock Slide - are all types that Lucario resists, so it's a choice between gaining an unnecessary boost to your Speed, or being able to have, effectively, a free turn of you attacking due to the pitiful amount of damage that you'll probably be taking.

Regarding your concerns about Water/Flying-types, having Stone Edge over Blaze Kick would help greatly, and Crunch could also be used over Shadow Claw, having pretty much the same coverage, and being 10BP higher. A set of Close Combat/Stone Edge/Ice Punch/Crunch would give your Lucario nearly unresisted coverage. Other than that, it looks fine.

Unless you can get your hands on a Tentacruel that has the Rain Dish ability, Liquid Ooze is fine. I'm not seeing why you would give it a Poison Barb, though, with Toxic Spikes doing the job of poisoning Pokémon nicely - replacing it a recovery item (in this case, Leftovers or Black Sludge) would be better. The first three moves look fine, but if you want a move for tackling Grass-types (even though they won't really pose a huge threat to Tentacruel), then Ice Beam would be a better choice. Even though it doesn't get the STAB advantage that Sludge Bomb does, it is a powerful move, there's a chance that you might freeze the target, and it gives much better coverage when compared to Sludge Bomb, with it being able to do some heavy damage to Ground-types that will be a threat.

I wouldn't use a specially defensive set on a Skarmory ever, but if that's what you want, then so be it. Apart from the set's ambitions in general, I would use Smogon's generic set, and give it either Brave Bird or Taunt in the final moveslot. Even thought Brave Bird hands out recoil damage, roosting back to full HP is easy enough, and it's not like Skarmory would be unable to take a hit while doing that.

Having an extra moveslot on Donphan due to Tentacruel already covering Rapid Spin is good, and, seeing as Stone Edge on Lucario would be a great idea (as I mentioned), then that move on Donphan could be replaced. Even though you have Skarmory to defend against any Dragon-types that you might be faced with, Ice Shard can do a lot of damage, and will also be helpful against Pokémon such as Gliscor that won't be affected by entry hazards as much as other Pokémon.

If you're going to have a bulky Mew set, then at least go all-out with a 252/252/4 defensive spread. Like you said, Mew already has a good Base Speed of 100, but even with those extra EVs thrown in there, it's not going to be outspeeding the top threats of this generation. Not investing in Speed at all, though, still leaves it with the great opportunity in which it outspeeds most, if not all, of the defensive threats this generation, which is great. To give yourself extra longevity against those kinds of Pokémon, forcing switches while you set up further, having Taunt somewhere in that set would be a good option. The problem with that, though, is what to get rid of to make room for it. You're definitely going to want both of the setup moves, as well as (obviously) Baton Pass, so the only move that could be replaced would be Psychic. This would probably be a problem somewhere along the line, but you're just aiming to set some boosts up and then get out of there, so it might not be so bad after all.

With Water/Ground-types being somewhat popular at the moment (Gastrodon and, most importantly, Quagsire), keeping Energy Ball on Gengar is a must, especially seeing as you don't have any other moves that can hit them super effectively. I'm not seeing much of a problem with the set you posted there, especially since having Stone Edge on Lucario would take care of Water/Flying-types for you.

Lucario - Steadfast ==> Inner Focus.
Lucario - Blaze Kick ==> Stone Edge.
Lucario - Shadow Claw ==> Crunch.
Tentacruel - Liquid Ooze ==> Rain Dish (if possible).
Tentacruel - Sludge Bomb ==> Ice Beam.
Skarmory - Drill Peck ==> Brave Bird/Taunt.
Donphan - Stone Edge ==> Ice Shard.
Mew - 252 HP/188 Def/68 Speed ==> 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef/Spe.
Mew - Psychic ==> Taunt.

 

[Trouble]

Hm, good critiques. Seeing as my team doesn't quite exist yet, these changes are easy to make and will certainly be considered. Especially the move Crunch instead of Shadow Claw. I kinda just wanted Shadow Claw to be there because I think it's a "cooler" move.

As for my Mew, I actually followed Smogon's set of EV's for a Baton Passing Mew, so I don't know that I'll change that.

I'm certainly weighing giving Lucario Stone Edge over Blaze Kick, but I'm still worried about covering those pesky Bug/Steel types or even fighting another Skarmory. With no electric-type moves, I won't get coverage for a Scizor or a Skarmory, and a Ferrothorn or Forrettress could set up on me pretty easily. Perhaps giving Donphan Fire-Fang somewhere along the line? I'm not sure...

Also, I'm struggling to find more recovery items in my White Version. I can find another Black Sludge by catching another Garbodor, but are you able to find Leftovers at a Battle Subway or anywhere else other than that one trash can in that city that I can't remember the name of?

All that said, I'm going to edit Lucario's ability now.

Thanks a bunch for the feedback!

 

[Space Opera]

I don't think you can get Leftovers in the Battle Subway, actually - I tried looking for them a while ago, but couldn't find any. Your best bet to get them would be to either trade, clone or get them from wild Pokémon (if that's possible - I'm not sure).

 

[Trouble]

Okay, so I may be changing a few things. I'm thinking of replacing Donpahn's Stone Edge with Ice Shard, and Stealth Rock with Fire Fang. I can't seem to find out how to teach Donphan Stealth Rock anyway... ideas?

 

[Space Opera]

Ah, Donphan can only learn Stealth Rock through TM in Gen IV. That's a shame. I hope they fix that for RSEmakes or Gen VI.
Having the priority of Ice Shard on Donphan would help for KOing already weakened opponents, and every team should really have one form of priority or another. If you want to have more coverage in general, which would be a good idea, then running a Gengar set that is more offensive-based would be good - you'd be able to have Thunderbolt and a Fire-type move then. If you're really struggling with being able to counter threats, then getting rid of the SubDisable set would be better than keeping it.

 

[Trouble]

I could give him Thunderbolt instead of Disable and just go with the Sub-and-three-moves set, which I've been heavily considering also. However, the only fire-type moves Gengar can learn are Will-O-Wisp and Sunny Day via TM, or Fire Punch through breeding, which I don't particularly care to give it due to the terrible attack stat that he'll have. Even if I have time to boost it with Mew's Swords Dance, I don't know that it'll be really worthwhile. I may just have to give Donphan the coverage with Fire Fang, and if he can't handle a certain threat, he can just roar it away.

 

[g3rgni]

I wouldn't use a specially defensive set on a Skarmory ever

SpD Skarm is great in DPP because it easily Spikes on weak special attackers. In BW, however, I'd have to agree with you.

@Trouble Listen to most of what CJC said. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but I think that it appears to be sound advice.

I agree with the sentiment that you should be running a Substitute + 3 attacks set on Gengar. The standard DPP OU set of Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Fire] / Substitute should work fine here.

 

[Trouble]

You think so? Even with the lack of coverage for Water/Ground types?

 

[g3rgni]

Why exactly does Gengar need to cover Ground or Water types? Gengar should have moves that can deal significant damage to its common switch-ins or would-be counters, not just any random threat in general.

 

[Trouble]

Gengar has to because no others on this team have the move set or even the move pool to do it aside from Mew. What other pokemon here is goin to?

 

[g3rgni]

If you have to intentionally compromise Gengar's sweeping abilities to get rid of Quagsire, you should probably rethink your team a little bit.

 

[Space Opera]

Good counters for Quagsire and Gastrodon would be anything that packs a Grass-type move capable of doing serious damage to them - Ferrothorn with Power Whip would be a good example, although not a good suggestion for this team due to the weakness to Fire-types that it currently carries. Any Pokémon that can successfully use Toxic against them, too, then proceed to stall them out can be a great help, which will be easier to accomplish if you have 2 layers of Toxic Spikes active.

Seeing as a lot of Quagsire tend to use Water-type moves, and attempt to set up with Curse (which can be easily forced out with Toxic), Jellicent can be used to counter them, which would aid with your problems regarding Fire-types, and would make it easier to introduce a FerroCent core into your team, which could help with your counters, while still providing entry hazards through Spikes and Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn.

 

[g3rgni]

Jellicent also helps you beat Scizor, a fairly common threat to which this team has no direct answer. Try using the the Stallbreaking set (Surf/Taunt/Will-O-Wisp/Recover).

 

[Trouble]

I'm going to disagree with you on that. His sweeping abilities have not been compromised because of one move over another and besides he's not the center of my team, Lucario is. Gengar was chosen to back him up by hitting what Lucario can't. I'm not just going to run around giving Pokemon move sets solely from smogon. That's entirely un creative an not entirely helpful either. I'm going to agree with CJC an say that this move is a must for Gengar on this team. I'm also going to say that based on the critiques you've had for other people's teams, you care very little for diversity and it's ability to be effective. However, I'm clearly not alone in my thought that this team is both creative and effective. So thanks anyway.


Ehh, I apologize for the tone of my last post. I was in a hurry to get it out before work, and I didn't realize until recently how it came across.

Basically, here's what I mean to say: I'm very grateful for critiques, but I do believe that CJC's have been better as they've been coupled with good suggestions and explanations rather than just pointing out flaws. Not only that, but she's already come up with simple solutions to make the same Pokemon more viable in competition. She's helped to solve the coverage issues very well.

I do have to say, the Pokemon I've chosen will not change. It's the first time my favorite Pokemon could come together and make a viable competitive team together, and it's hardly predictable. I can change their moves around, but not the Pokemon themselves.

All this in mind, I can make a completely different team as well if I were interested in "just winning," but I really believe there's something to be said about Elite Four Karen's philosophy about winning with the Pokemon you love best. So that'll be that for this team. If there are more suggestions for move sets, I'll gladly consider them.

 

[g3rgni]

@Trouble

I apologize for not explaining my thoughts more thoroughly. I'd like to say that I personally believe that this team would not work very well in the standard OU metagame. Non-weather teams typically require a strong defensive core to combat the multitude of threats posed by weather-based teams as well as the rest of the metagame's threats in general. This team's core of Donphan, Skarmory, and Tentacruel, in my opinion, is not particularly suited to handle many sweepers commonly found on Drought and Drizzle teams. You'll struggle against Volcarona, Venusaur, Tangrowth, Tornadus, Jirachi, and Gyarados to name a few. You'll also have some trouble against Pokemon such as Rotom-W and Reuniclus for whom you have no direct counters.

Please feel free to play the game whatever way you'd like. I would, however, like to suggest that you test this team extensively before you make judgment of its effectiveness.

Also, please don't double post. If you want to clarify something you've said, please edit your initial post.

 

[Trouble]

Well, I've been mulling things over, and I've come to some good conclusions.

I'd like to heartily thank @Corpus Juris Civilis and @Heathcliff Huxtable. HH, even though I don't respond very well immediately to harsh criticisms (and those weren't really harsh, just disagreeable to me at the time), they're the ones that stick with me and improve me in whatever it is I do. You have certainly convinced me that there is potential to do better, and that I can do just that.

CJC, your suggestions have been very helpful and were delivered in a most agreeable manner.

This was my first attempt at a competitive team, and these aren't ALL of my favorite Pokemon, of course. There are so many to choose from! I will continue to improve on my competitive game. This team is fun and it's my first, and given that it's my first, I feel that I did a pretty decent job. I'm going to see it through and complete the team on my game, and I may even try it out against some other players, but more importantly, I will be making more teams, more competitively viable ones.

Thanks again for your help!