Retrocausality

Rishi

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Can an effect precede its cause? Can the present affect the past? Can the future affect the present? As logically absurd as these questions may seem, they ALL relate to an apparent paranormal phenomenon known as 'retrocausality'. Here is some basic information about retrocausality from Wikipedia (from this URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrocausality):

Retrocausality is any of several hypothetical phenomena or processes that reverse causality, allowing an effect to occur before its cause. Also referred to as retro-causation, backward causation or by other, similar terms, it is primarily a philosophy of science thought experiment based on elements of physics, addressing the question: Can what happens in the future affect the present, and can the present affect the past? Philosophical considerations of time travel often address the same issues as retrocausality, although the two terms are not universally synonymous. While a few legitimate scientific theories have also proposed limited forms of retrocausality, no experimental observations have been reliably reported as of 2006.

I believe that the apparent threefold division of time (ie. the past, the present and the future) is, at heart, an illusion. The paranormal phenomenon known as 'precognition' seems to reinforce this claim. How can thousands of people around the world since time immemorial claim to have had dreams in which they CLEARLY witnessed future events which eventually came to pass in almost EXACTLY (if not exactly!) the same way it supposedly occurred in their dreams? I think it is due to 'time' (as we know it) being non-linear (as opposed to linear). In addition to this, every infinitesimal moment of 'time' might very well be occurring simultaneously! So this could mean that somehow, the people who sincerely claim to have experienced a precognitive dream(s) might have been able to either intentionally or unintentionally 'pick' certain scenes from the future which has already happened! This would also tie in with the almost universal religious belief that everything acts in accordance with Supreme Will. If NOTHING can override Supreme Will, then, in an absolute sense, everything is pre-ordained. Retrocausality seems to also make sense to me when envisioning something without a beginning. It ALWAYS seemed incomprehensible to me how something (ANYTHING in fact) could be beginningless. Then I realised something. Eternity is a two-way street! If eternity is basically the absence of time, then it cannot ONLY be a span of time WITHOUT an end but ALSO without a beginning AS WELL! It CANNOT be truthfully said that ANYTHING can be eternal if it had a beginning. If it had a beginning, then it MUST also have an end. So if eternity extends from everlastingness to everlastingness (ie. if it SIMULTANEOUSLY extends infinitely into the so-called 'past' as well as infinitely into the so-called 'future'), then the so-called 'past' might STILL be in the process of construction and/or already occurring as I type this very message! As a result, retrocausality might actually be a legitimate paranormal phenomenon. What does everyone else think? Are 'new' events still unfolding in the so-called 'past'? Is retrocausality a legitimate paranormal phenomenon?

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You just wanted to use a cool word for your thread title...

To answer your question, the principle of causality doesn't necessarily exclude a cause from occurring after its effect. But the cause would have to come after the effect in every reference frame. And, so far such an event has never been witnessed.

Are 'new' events still unfolding in the so-called 'past'?

No. If the future can affect the past, the past has already been affected and there's nothing "new" to see there. It's all already happened.
 
I see two methods for time to work. Either everything in time has sorted itself out and we are doomed to do what time has chosen us to do, or, if we could go back in time, any little thing we did would change something in the future.
 
No. If the future can affect the past, the past has already been affected and there's nothing "new" to see there. It's all already happened.

How do you know (if you know) that the past would have already been affected and that the past does not continue to flow through a process of becoming that extends infinitely backwards? I've always envisioned 'time' as a line in which both the left point (the 'past') and the right point (the 'future') are extending forever. The centre point of this line would be the 'present'. To me, the flow of time is bi-directional and symmetrical.
 
How do you know (if you know) that the past would have already been affected and that the past does not continue to flow through a process of becoming that extends infinitely backwards?

Because if the past has been changed, our memories would also have been changed to match. So, perhaps it can be changed, but it's a trivial question.

Looks to me like you're more interested in metaphysical mumbo jumbo than actual science, so I'm out.
 
You have to consider relativity in this, as the present is very well the future in the eyes of the past, and the present is the past in the eyes of the future. You could be right in that case, especially if you believe time to be cyclical. As for alternate realities, I never thought of that way, but I have heard of them going at varying speeds and even going backwards relative to our time. Theoretically, there is no limit as to what can happen in an alternate reality, as long as it still fits the universal laws of physics. (Although that is a brain teaser in itself, a reality where even the laws of physics are different) We have always sought to take control of the future. Is that not changing a cause before the effect happens?
 
I experience this all the time because I can see the future to an extent.
 
No, I don't notice it a lot.

It also often comes in fortune cookie form.
 
You have to consider relativity in this, as the present is very well the future in the eyes of the past, and the present is the past in the eyes of the future.

Very valid point. Everything in this universe is relative.

You could be right in that case, especially if you believe time to be cyclical.

Yes, I do believe that time/history is cyclical. One of the conclusions I have currently reached is that time has a fractal nature; in other words, similar things happen over and over again. Time is not linear but a complex higher-dimensional shape like the Mandelbrot Set, each part of which is unique but bears a definite stylistic relation to the whole. Therefore, in terms of human history alone, war and peace, civilisation and devastation, happiness and suffering, elevation and degradation, birth and death etc. happen over and over again in familiar but ever-changing patterns.

As for alternate realities, I never thought of that way, but I have heard of them going at varying speeds and even going backwards relative to our time.

I believe that there are an infinite number of speeds and scales of time. Also, in terms of alternate realities 'going backwards relative to our time', that phenomenon is known as 'negative time'. Here is an article about negative time (from this URL: http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/3726.asp):

"In the physical universes, the concept of time is always positive. However there are simultaneous parallel time dimensions within the physical universes. Every physical universe is associated with one time dimension and innumerable parallel time dimensions. The concept of time always starts at zero – the time of the big bang in the physical universe.

But according to researchers in contemporary physics, the parallel universes have the concept of no time dimension and time can become negative in that environment. The time dimension that allows time as a negative value makes strange things happen. One can literally fabricate the future in that environment from the past and then come to the present. A spatial with no time concept built in is not a point of singularity.

What really happens in the parallel universe, the lack of time as a dimension or presence of time dimension that allows negative time makes living through that environment very different from the physical universe. Space becomes finite and time becomes non-existent or a retraceable factor. Like we can walk around in the physical universe from point A to point B, in the parallel universe, it is possible to walk from one time to the next time. Even it is possible to travel to a negative reference value in time.

The best way the negative time factor or value can be expressed is when an entity crosses the physical universe to a parallel universe through a specific wormhole. The moment the point of singularity is crossed, the entity enters the time zone marked as negative in the physical universe and null or non-existent in the parallel universe.

Multidimensional time can also span across the physical and parallel universes. That is the reason why mind regression tests and experiments show very strange results. The minds and souls can travel from one time dimension to the other and while doing so sometimes they fall into parallel universes of higher dimensions. At that point of time, the mind regression experiment loses its touch with the soul telling all these. As minds regress multiple time dimension spanning across physical and parallel universes, the experiments show gaps. This is because no one can regress into a parallel universe from the existence in a physical universe. It is similar to trying to find air in a vacuum. All that you can do is experience the emptiness or lack of anything from the side of the physical universe."

I find the concept of 'negative time' to be COMPLETELY MIND-BLOWING. Imagine a universe exactly the same as this one (right down to a sub-atomic level!), but the only difference is that time flows backwards instead of forwards. I firmly believe that retrocausality is a genuine paranormal phenomenon and this concept of 'negative time' (as opposed to 'positive time') explains how retrocausality could be an objective fact quite adequately. Can you envision a universe that begins with a 'big crunch' (commonly theorised by astronomers to be how the universe will meet its demise) and ends with a 'big bang' (commonly theorised by astronomers to be how the universe began)? I'm sure it's difficult for anyone to even TRY to conceive such a thing in their limited mind! In any case, 'you' (ie. someone identical to you in practically every way, but not necessarily possessing the same soul as you) could be 'born' in that reverse-time universe as an old man or woman and 'die' shortly after you get re-absorbed back into your mother's womb. So, in a way, you grow 'old' by becoming younger!

Theoretically, there is no limit as to what can happen in an alternate reality, as long as it still fits the universal laws of physics. (Although that is a brain teaser in itself, a reality where even the laws of physics are different)

Yes, I definitely think that there are alternate realities/universes where even the laws of physics are different. Space and time might not even exist in some alternate realities/universes.

We have always sought to take control of the future. Is that not changing a cause before the effect happens?

Perhaps.
 
I... know I said I was out, but you have one big problem in this post.

Imagine a universe exactly the same as this one (right down to a sub-atomic level!), but the only difference is that time flows backwards instead of forwards.

Yeah, in a universe like that the future would affect the past. But then, the past would be unable to affect the future. So it's just exchanging one thing for another.
 
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