RMT: Interpolation 0.1

[evkl]

A rough sketch of the team I'm trying to put together on my Pt cart. Thoughts?

Mamoswine (@Life Orb) / Jolly. 252atk, 252speed, 4def
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Ice Shard
Protect

Scouts, Stealth Rocks, can bring a little pain when it needs to.

Gyarados (@Leftovers) / Adamant. 252atk, 252speed, 4def
Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Stone Edge
Earthquake

Sweeper yay!

Heatran (@Leftovers) / Timid. 4hp, 252SpA, 252speed
Fire Blast
Earth Power
Substitute
Explosion

Should mess around with a lot of people, if all goes well. A slightly unconventional set. If not, it can always explode in their face.

Electivire (@Expert Belt) / Adamant. 4hp, 252attack, 252speed
Thunderpunch
Ice Punch
Cross Chop
Earthquake

Sweep sweep sweep 2. The ideal backup to Gyarados.

Latias (@Life Orb) / Modest. 4hp, 252SpA, 252speed
Surf
Dragon Pulse
Recover
Calm Mind

A bit more staying power, and special-based offense.

Togekiss (@Leftovers) / Timid. 252hp, 20def, 236 speed. Serene Grace, obvs.
Yawn
Wish
Substitute/Body Slam
Air Slash

Not sure how I feel about the set. One of my own design, designed to basically pseudohaze plus give some support.

Concerns: stealth rock, complex stall teams. I like running stall teams generally (easier to play a competent defense and wait for an opponent's mistake, I think) and I'm not sure how having varied offensive firepower will work with my playing style. Thoughts?

 

[Our Wasted Years]

From looking at your team I'd have to say get rid of E-vire and get Jolteon. E-vire will only be effective if you can get the Motor Drive boost, otherwise Jolteon is a better choice. It hits things harder and is faster right off the bat. Even though E-vire has more coverage type-wise due to it's moves I'd go with Jolteon, however if you know you can pull off the Motor Drive boost and sweep then keep E-vire...depends which one works better for you personally.

Also I really like that Togekiss set...might try it sometime. I'm not sure yet but I'd go with Sub over Body Slam because that way you can be safe from Toxic and you can Wish the Sub damage back.

I'm sorry if this is shitty, my brain is like

at the moment .______.

 

[Ino-Chan]

Like with the above poster, I agree with getting rid of E-vire. Gyrados and E-vire combination is a bit noob-ish. I like the idea of using Jolteon too.

And why may I ask does Mamoswine have Protect?

 

[Our Wasted Years]

And why may I ask does Mamoswine have Protect?

Scouting pretty much. To see what his opponent will do.

 

[coolking503]

I think your mamoswine lead is outclassed by a similar donphan lead I made:

Donphan @ life orb
adamant
80HP/252att/172 speed
-Earthquake
-seed bomb
-ice shard
-Stealth rock

this is for two reasons. you don't lose to infernape, and you can use seed bomb to kill the second most common lead in the game, swampert. Also, this has more bulk, with the ev spread specialized to out speed metagross. Otherwise they are generally the same, even if donphan packs a bit less of a punch. You could also run a sash so you can beat roserade with ice shard, while still surviving a hit and koing the needed opponents.

your heatran isn't too good since you will be exploding way too often. mence comes in, and breaks your sub with eq, and you are forced to switch or explode. same with latias, flygon, etc. its just that you need a good hidden power (or dragon pulse) to have good coverage.

togekiss doesn't look too good either. it isn't really bulky, even with that spread, something it needs to phaze. You are better off with a bulkier pokemon like skarmory (who can set up much needed antry hazards, lure electric attacks to electivire, and fire attacks to heatran, which is extremely good synergy with your team). also, phaing isn't that great without entry hazards so their pokemon lose health on each switch. The last reason skarmory is so good on your team is because you only have 1 dragon resist, which means once heatran and mamoswine are out of the way, you are dead. You dont even have SR up usually, since mamoswine is rarely going to get it up (azelf, metagross, heatran, aerodactyl, and many other leads stop its set up, though aero doesn't get it up its self). remember mence can switch out of mamoswine unless locked into outrage. so once heatran is dead, mixmence blasts through your team one by one, until only mamoswine is left (since it cant switch into mence, being ko'd by any attack except earthquake). (naive mence outspeeds you latias by 1 point, so you probably should make it timid).

unlike the people above, I disagree about electavire. It isn't mazing, but any combo that is tried and true is now a "noob combo". If it works, use it. From what I see, it should work if you add skarm, but otherwise its only gyara trying to help it set up, and that isn't enough.

 

[Badal]

Ok. Jolteon is surely a better option to Electivire. Due to several reasons- SPEED. As coolking rightly said, the Mamoswine is outclassed by the Donphan. Mamoswine will be killed by an Infernape right away and thus it is almost a waste. If you still plan to stick with a Mamoswine, then I personally feel that you should give it some other item. This is because Infernape is faster and can kill it.

Again we come back to the same point again, choosing Donphan over Mamoswine. Donphan is will take many more turns to kill and thus will be stronger. It is much harder to kill and won't be taken down by Infernape lead so easily. As of countering other leads, it works well too.

If you are convinced to change the Mamoswine lead but not convinced to change it to a Donphan, then you should look at some standard leads for the team:
Uxie/Mesprit/Azelf
Aerodactyl- Taunt with speed to counter other similar pokemon.

Thank You.

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

For the most part, I agree with the comments already given.

For the Mamoswine lead, the Donphan definitely looks better. As a lead. But it leaves you more open to Salamence, which is problematic for this team. You don't really have anything good for it, except using Gyarados as a check (if it's already set up).

For Heatran, I would go with a Naive nature instead of a Timid one. Or put some effort into attack. The Salamence problem coolking mentioned? Yeah, even when you Explode, you can't guarantee a OHKO after Stealth Rock (though you can if you factor in LO damage). I'd switch to Naive just to be safe to avoid this.

I definitely think Jolteon is a better pair with Gyarados than Electivire. Electivire is too slow and frail to operate unless you activate motor drive, and after your opponent switches it out once, good luck pulling that off again. However, replacing with Jolteon will give you two problems: you'll have to rely on your lead to take out Tyranitar, and you'll be lacking a physical attacker that's not your lead. And if you do replace Mamoswine, well, Donphan doesn't actually hit very hard. Plus it'll have taken damage already and have been revealed and all that jazz. I kind of want to say put Mamoswine here and use an entirely different lead.

Togekiss needs bulky EVs if it has a bulky moveset. Remove those speed EVs and put them into the defenses. You shouldn't be going for the flinch chance on Air Slash unless you have heavy paralysis support (in which case you don't need speed at all) or you have an all-out offensive spread.

 

[PlatinumDude]

You might want to change Togekiss a bit:
Togekiss
-Air Slash
-Thunder Wave
-Wish/Roost (your call if you want to replace Wish)
-Yawn/Aura Sphere (again, your call: extra support or coverage)
Nature: Timid
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/20 SDef/232 Spe

 

[Badal]

I was thinking, you should run Timid over Modest for Latias. You're running calm mind so you'll do enough damage with timid. It outruns Bulky Gyara after 1 DD.

The team has a rock weakness and Electivire isn't helping it. You could probably replace it with an anti-lead Machamp and switch it with Mamoswine.

I was thinking of replacements for Donphan and you could put a Hippowdon in there, it gives you damage over time and is still more bulkier.

You may also want to replace Togekiss. Perhaps use Skarmory@Shed Shell, careful, 252 HP, 252 SpD, 6 Def, Spikes, Whirlwind, Brave bird, Roost. Cuts your ice/rock weaknesses a bit and gives you some handy resists and well as better phasing.

You may also want to try HP fire over surf on latias, you have gyarados to deal with heatran switches.

If you have trouble with Rotom then switch leftovers with Wacan Berry on Gyarados.

 

[PlatinumDude]

You may also want to replace Togekiss. Perhaps use Skarmory@Shed Shell, careful, 252 HP, 252 SpD, 6 Def, Spikes, Whirlwind, Brave bird, Roost. Cuts your ice/rock weaknesses a bit and gives you some handy resists and well as better phasing.

Why would you want Skarmory to be Careful? It fails at Special defending, and is still better off as a Physical Wall. Keep the moves, but change the nature and EVs to this: Impish Nature, 252 HP/64 Atk/76 Def/16 Spe.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

You might want to change Togekiss a bit:
Togekiss
-Air Slash
-Thunder Wave
-Wish/Roost (your call if you want to replace Wish)
-Yawn/Aura Sphere (again, your call: extra support or coverage)
Nature: Timid
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/20 SDef/232 Spe

Cheesus said that the Speed EVs aren't needed and he needs more bulk.

I was thinking of replacements for Donphan and you could put a Hippowdon in there, it gives you damage over time and is still more bulkier.

Sandstorm isn't going to be benefiting his LO Latias...

You may also want to replace Togekiss. Perhaps use Skarmory@Shed Shell, careful, 252 HP, 252 SpD, 6 Def, Spikes, Whirlwind, Brave bird, Roost. Cuts your ice/rock weaknesses a bit and gives you some handy resists and well as better phasing.

Yeah I think Skarm would be a better choice, plus he can bait people to use Fire attacks so he could give Heatran the Flash Fire boost.

You may also want to try HP fire over surf on latias, you have gyarados to deal with heatran switches.

HP Fire would be great on Latias, especially for Scizor, but I don't think he'll be able to put it on.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Cheesus said that the Speed EVs aren't needed and he needs more bulk.

All right, how about this Nature and EV spread:
Calm Nature, 252 HP/4 SATk or Def/252 SDef?

 

[evkl]

I think, broadly, the issues with this team separate into two groups:

1: MOAR BULK
2: MOAR POWER

Which means that both sides need a pretty big revamp.

I'm thinking of scrapping a stealth rock lead and running an anti-lead--probably:

Dragonite @ Life Orb (252atk/252spA/4speed)
Draco Meteor
Fire Blast
Extremespeed/Protect
Earthquake

Although not sure on the nature, I think this would help me win the initial phase of the battle nicely, although it has huge problems with Swampert that still can't be remedied. Another option I thought of is running a very weird Alakazam set designed to ruin the day of some of the more common leads, with Grass Knot and Psychic and speed EVs (plus Protect to prevent Fake Out) giving excellent coverage against Swampert and Infernape and reasonable power elsewhere. That set is much more screwed against the bulky leads--so I'm not too sure of its value.

The Jolteon issue is one I'm personally not...entirely sold on but I'm willing to see how the two compare in Shoddy matches.

And as for Togekiss, going with a more-standard Skarm will add needed bulk. I think critics of the exploding Heatran have a point but I also think that if I have to trade Heatran for Salamence in the course of a battle, that's better for me than it is for the other guy. At least I know how things are playing without Heatran, I think the loss of Salamence is pretty destabilizing to some teams.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

You could always add Tentacruel who can spin, is bulky and can add and remove Toxic Spikes. Or you could run Starmie who is fast, can heal from status damage on the switch and is a rapid spinner who could deal some serious damage.

If you want bulk and a electric type..go with Zapdos. Thing is a monster and can be both Specially or Physically defensive. Now if you indeed went with Zapdos you will need a Rapid Spinner.

As for the lead I'm really not sure on the Dragonite...will look into it.

 

[coolking503]

Dragonite is a good lead, and don't worry about swampert, since draco meteor 2ko's. that means he doesn't get stealth rock once you revenge swampert, or he gets SR up but swampert is dead, and d-nite is still alive.

Alakazam doesn't need protect for fake out, because of inner focus, it can run a sash and counter fake out. the problem is you need emerald for that as it is a tutor move.

Also, you may not be trading heatran for mence straight up. Mence outrage will 2ko with SR up and a bit of previous damage, and mence outspeeds you. Also, if it doesn't lock into outrage, it can kill you with earthquake.

Not only mence, but timid latias takes care of most of your team. Again, mamoswine cant switch in, and there is no counter otherwise, since it outspeeds your latias. specially defensive skarmory is probably the best counter, taking latias attacks and mence's attacks, and healing off damage with roost.

If you get rid of a SR lead, make sure something else carries SR, since it is the best mence counter out there. Bronzong can set it up and might be a good option over skarmory, especially if you change heatran into scarf heatran, because it forces mence to fire blast, allowing heatran to get a boost. you also will outspeed and ko it then. zong can also set up stealth rock.