Season 5 vs. Season 16

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

RememberingGOODPokemon

New Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
So as of late I really got into watching pokemon episodes from the childhood days and I've noticed that right after season 5 was over I didn't want to watch it anymore and I'm convinced that it was because Misty left. Just from all the episodes I watched from when Ash stole Misty's bike to the Orange Islands where Misty didn't stay with that gym leader because she was in love with Ash to Ash defeating Gary in the Johto League.

Just from all the things that were hyped up including Misty being in love with Ash, Ash beating Gary but ends up losing again in the top 8! Like I understand money makes the world go round and I'm taking this a little further because I'm older now and understand stuff that I didn't understand as a kid BUT how do you just start these hyped up things and never solve/answer them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Ash's goal to become a pokemon master really was in front of your eyes when he beat Gary but when he lost I was about to stop watching there. Then what do you know... 4 episodes later Misty leaves but doesn't even tell Ash that she loves him? WOW. In my opinion (I know season 6 started a long time ago and I know that the video game was the most popular at the period of time) I felt ending the series where Ash was the main focus could of ended perfectly in season five with Ash winning the johoto league and Misty tells Ash she loves him which leads to a season 6 with either the same characters OR go to Gary's point of view for a season or two... Btw I'm mainly disappointed because I saw one episode from season 7 and one from season 16 and from what I saw it just wasn't the same. I mean don't even get me started on season 16 because that wasn't pokemon... that was the worst cartoon I've ever watched in my life... the voice, clothing, friends, and EVEN Pikachu was different! I will never watch another episode because of that! It was terrible. Please give me your thoughts on the transition from season 5 to season 6 (when Ash, Brock, and Misty split up and Ash goes to Hoenn).

Sorry if I spelled the regions wrong :p Just please give me some feedback to know that you guys agree with me, have answers for me, or even some points to prove why my opinion should change! This show was the greatest show/video game of my childhood and seeing that season 16 episode almost made me angry lol. Again please let me know what you think!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's never been confirmed that Misty is in love with Ash.

You should also give the later seasons more than just one episode. They're not perfect, of course, but there's still plenty to like about the newer shows.
 
like looking back when Ash beat I think it was Drake(?) to get into the Orange Island Hall of Fame I was in awe of how good that episode was and same with the one where he beat Gary and those did take a lot of episodes to get to, but as for the seasons past season 5, I could probably only watch until that new person starts voicing Ash because the voice will make the difference for me. (I even noticed that at the end of season 5 that Bulbasaur and Squirtle had different people casting for them too). I'll probably give seaons 6 and 7 a try because I lived off of 'Pokemon Ruby' and I don't have a problem with May, but I quit the video game when Diamond came out and once they made that new region Unova(?) I felt it was getting out of had. I mean no show should go on after 16 seasons. The fanbase isn't even the same. In my opinion they should have given the new fan base a new hero as soon as Ash's voice changed.
 
All shows change over time. Neither Misty nor Brock had any real purpose after Ash became a competent trainer, which was largely the reason they only worked when Ash was a rookie.

I know Brock stays for two more generations, but when you watch them you'll notice that he doesn't mentor Ash anymore.
 
Misty telling Ash that she loves him doesn't really sound like something that would have happened in the series. I know that 4Kids liked to add in lines to make it look like they had feelings and from what I read, there were some in the Japanese version of the original series too, but since the main focus of the series is Ash's journey to become a Pokemon Master, it wouldn't make sense to have Misty tell him that she loves him.

I don't mind that they split up the original trio. It was kind of sad for me when it first happened since they had been together for so long, but now, I only get sad from the corny sweet song they play through the flashback, mainly because it reminds me of goodbyes I've had to deal with in my own life. Misty leaving was really for the best in my opinion. They were able to try out having more active female characters with May and Dawn and I think that really paid off in the long run. Even though Brock comes back a few episodes later, I liked that he had other characters to interact this time around and changing the cast really helped to make the start of AG more interesting for me. He might have come off as being stale after being around so long, but I still liked him

While each series does have its fair share of problems and I'm not sure how much you'll like the newest series given the problems I have with BW, I recommend checking out more than one episode from AG too. Despite its flaws, AG was pretty fun. I liked the group chemistry, May was a really nice breath of fresh air for me, although it might have helped that I never cared much for Misty, having something other than Ash's Gym badge quest to focus on was cool and the humor was great. DP is where the writing was at its best in my opinion with better Gym battles, the rivalry between Ash and Paul, Dawn's Contest arc being handled better than May's Contest arcs writing wise, Team Galactic being handled better than the other evil teams and a pretty solid Sinnoh League. I have more problems with BW than praises at this point, but there might be some qualities about it that you could like such as the faster pace or Ash catching more than six Pokemon. It may not appeal to you as much as the original series did, but maybe the other series can provide more entertainment if you check out a few more episodes.
 
I think part of the problem here is that you watched the Original Series episodes when you were a child, and now that you watched the new episodes, they felt worse because you're watching from a teenager/adult perspective now. I'm currently doing a re-watch of the whole series, and I've noticed that Kanto is full of flaws that I ignored as a kid. I honestly enjoyed Diamond and Pearl much more, even though I watched as a teenager instead of a 5-year-old. AG was also good. BW... not so much, but anyway, give the newer seasons a chance. Like Fighting Misty said, shows change over time, and that's happened to Pokémon too. But don't you think that's ok? Why would you want a series that's always the same? That's the reason I stopped watching when Johto aired. I'm pretty sure I didn't even watch the league.

And by the way, it makes little sense to change the hero after Ash's voice changed because the show's written in Japan, and it's mainly for Japanese audiences (although the dub has had some pretty negative influence on the show as a whole, such as making it less Japanese as years go by). They're not going to change Ash because TCPi didn't keep the same voice actors. Satoshi has had the same voice since the show started.
 
*shrugs* Like you, the show didn't turn out at all like I thought it would when I watched it as a kid. I thought Ash would essentially become Red, end up with Misty, and everyone would live happily ever after. The writers clearly had/have a different vision. I understand why they're doing the show the way they are, but I kind of wish they would have broken the series into two: one for older fans that follows Ash and allows him to grow up (and ends), and one for kids that follows a different character in the cyclical way they've been doing it for the last however many years.

As our good friends the Rolling Stones once told us, you can't always get what you want. But that's what fanfics are for ;-)
 
Regardless of when it would occur, no ending would satisfy all viewers. Just stop watching it at a random point and make up your own ending.

As for the voices, I think there's a far bigger difference in how Ash sounds in the last 4kids episode and the first one, than he does between then and now.
 
Original series did feel like Ash would win in the end and maybe you are right that each generation should of brought in a new novice to follow. Personally I like BW series Ash might of devolved but episodes arent broken up by 10 minutes of team rocket every show andthe storys seem faster paced. My one gripe was the original bw series had literally no connection to the old series at first but it gets better and if you can get past the fact pikachu loses to a brand new hatched snivy even without electric powers it is worth watching :)
 
I will be first one who will say that he appreciate things new sagas brought with itself liking May and Dawn contest arcs, Iris and Cilan as characters, battles and development of characters being raised to higher quality etc.

However i can understand how OP feels in some aspects vecause after OS era ended anime also lost soime things in return. I feel back back than pokemon used to have more humor, better dynamic within cast and many things which today would never manage to pass under radar like it was case before. Exaggerated style experimenting with various things and wacky plots original series used to had gave pokemon series more emotion and personal identity to it. Now i understand we had heartwarming scenes in AG, DP or BW but when looking back i have to admit how Kanto,OI and Johto had generally more touching and easy to come to viewers heart feeling. Like "Bye Bye Butterfree",goodbye scene with Pikachu,when Ash was turned into stone,when Misty left cast(one of most impacting and sad scenes),when Latios died,etc,etc,etc.

Very few people could remain completely indifferent to every of those scenes and it just seemed in OS era how show was more geared toward entertainment and characterization not being so heavily focused on games and pokemon promotion like its case now.

I also agree with thread starter sentiment over Misty removal from cast, which was in reality mistake in my opinion. She brought sense of identity perfectly balancing out group chemistry making things more zealous and flaunting with her colorful personality. With writers leaving lot to be desired with character having many things and potential to expand on her story end unanswered. Not only with water master goal dreaming to become best water trainer like her idol(Lorelei),but also with past, ambitions and various other aspects of Misty character which are left unfinished and unexplored.
And getting rod of one of most appealing and complex characters this show had with fantastic potential only diminished entertainment value for some people out there.

Granted some will say how her exit allowed that females become more active, but in advance we lost good chunk of appeal, lively dynamic and charisma which Misty brought once she left cast. I always thought it would work better in long run if she stayed and May joined allowing writers to explore dynamic to whole new level by having two active girls in cast.
Only re energizing AG cast more and giving us something fresh in form of following experienced water trainer advancing forward.

The Fighting Misty said:
All shows change over time. Neither Misty nor Brock had any real purpose after Ash became a competent trainer, which was largely the reason they only worked when Ash was a rookie.

I know Brock stays for two more generations, but when you watch them you'll notice that he doesn't mentor Ash anymore.
Click to expand...

Isn't one of main messages and purpose in this show to have Ash and friends explore world of pokemon, build on friendship bringing humor and fun interactions, learn new things and advance their own dreams and careers?

Just because Ash became slightly more competent doesn't mean Misty and Brock presence in anime was meaningless afterwards. In fact far from it. They brought lot of humor, tension and enjoyable dynamic into cast providing adventurous feeling in pokemon series following friends on journey while having fun together giving it identity. We got insight into Misty and Brock past, character development dealing with their issues or goals, have them contribute to resolution of various plots, catch new pokemon etc.

Also you can tell Brock and Misty(when still in anime) still coached Ash helping him several times past Kanto as well by giving him push and motivation to go forward, prepare battle strategies for him and give him advices . Such as in gym battles against Rudy, Pryce or Falkner, Prior to important tournaments like Whirl Cup or league etc being accompanied with lot of moral support.

Not to mention Brock still served purpose of navigator and caretaker in Hoenn and Sinnoh series giving Ash and May advices, helped him about training his pokemon bringing order and balance in main cast with his wisdom and mature attitude.

Even in DP we can still see him mentor Ash on several occasions such as training with him before battling Roark, training with Infernape prior to league, playing role in whole crisis regarding Chimchar and Paul etc.
Encouragement and moral support from friends not only from those two but other as well(like May, Dawn, Cilan etc) always served important purpose by helping Ash to deal with obstacles growing forward. Thanks to aliment and impact friends left on him.

p.s. Yes all shows change over time bringing something new, but they don't always do that through cast cycling but through new innovations enriching anime storyline making it better written.
 
Last edited:
The fanbase isn't even the same. In my opinion they should have given the new fan base a new hero as soon as Ash's voice changed.
Click to expand...

The VA change was American only actually, it would have never affected the japanese version. Ash would have never went away cause because of american only stuff. Ash in Japan has always had the same voice actress for all almost 16 years of the anime. They would never change the character due to something that only happened in some other country.

And by the way, it makes little sense to change the hero after Ash's voice changed because the show's written in Japan, and it's mainly for Japanese audiences (although the dub has had some pretty negative influence on the show as a whole, such as making it less Japanese as years go by). They're not going to change Ash because TCPi didn't keep the same voice actors. Satoshi has had the same voice since the show started.​
Click to expand...


Yep the whole anime is Japan 1st before anything else. :)

One of the many things about the original series that I actually like is the Japanese-ness of the show. Especially the pre-american dub ones where they were allowed to be Japanese. :)​
 
Last edited:
After 10 years, I am surprised this is still an issue, but evidently, even to the fandom, it is still the second gen. I'm not even going to attempt to reason with it, I'll just say it's probably not worth your time. If you thought Ash was going to become a master by defeating Gary, I can understand why you would think that, but given the placement in the anime, it would've sort of been a stretch. By now, it is all too evident they're never going to have Ash win anything, especially now that they've shown they can stick it up continuity to do so. Not to mention they could've done the same thing by having a new protagonist. It's going to be a long time before we even know what the anime is going to do for XY, but my expectations are the lowest they've ever been, and that's saying a lot. Episode N can still change my mind, but that's kind of a shot in the dark by itself. Anyway, trust me, if you can't handle junk being left unresolved on that front, (even though it never really existed to begin with) then you're wasting your time. The only end is the one where they go off to an adventure that doesn't get told. Except for Misty herself, who has to be anchored to one spot, and Tracey, who only sort of achieved what he was looking for.
 
I'll admit that Season 16 hasn't been perfect but you can't really judge it after watching just one episode. Now that you mention it, which episode did you watch?

If this doesn't help then go watch Seasons 10-14. Sinnoh was actually pretty good.
 
WAIT A MINUTE! Season 16 hasn't even started yet! How could you have watched an episode from there!?
 
ObjectionMan said:
WAIT A MINUTE! Season 16 hasn't even started yet! How could you have watched an episode from there!?
Click to expand...

i don't think he's complaining about any particular season, he's simply complaining that the show now isn't the same as it was 15 years ago.
 
Satoshi_Pikachu said:
I think part of the problem here is that you watched the Original Series episodes when you were a child, and now that you watched the new episodes, they felt worse because you're watching from a teenager/adult perspective now. I'm currently doing a re-watch of the whole series, and I've noticed that Kanto is full of flaws that I ignored as a kid. I honestly enjoyed Diamond and Pearl much more, even though I watched as a teenager instead of a 5-year-old. AG was also good. BW... not so much, but anyway, give the newer seasons a chance. Like Fighting Misty said, shows change over time, and that's happened to Pokémon too. But don't you think that's ok? Why would you want a series that's always the same? That's the reason I stopped watching when Johto aired. I'm pretty sure I didn't even watch the league.

And by the way, it makes little sense to change the hero after Ash's voice changed because the show's written in Japan, and it's mainly for Japanese audiences (although the dub has had some pretty negative influence on the show as a whole, such as making it less Japanese as years go by). They're not going to change Ash because TCPi didn't keep the same voice actors. Satoshi has had the same voice since the show started.
Click to expand...

That's true. Why did TPCi recast all of the characters' voices, though, only to bring most of the 4Kids VAs back in minor roles?

I still don't understand why are they still so anti-Veronica Taylor and Eric Stuart, in particular, these days. :(

I mean, both indicated a desire to return, if given the chance. I know a lot of fans would love it if they even came back in cameo roles, just for old times' sake. Like Stuart Zagnit did as Professor Cedric Juniper (and he will, again).

I know one day TPCi will understand. I'll keep believing with all my heart it'll happen. I believe TPCi, and Taylor etc., will work it out someday. From the bottom of my heart...:').
 
Last edited:
Season 16 is pokemon BW season 2 right? In this case since it contained the junior cup and the worst league ever made 5 wins.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom