Serperior deserves better stats?

[Jolty94]

I personally think that Serperior deserves better stats... Comparing it to Sceptile, Venusaur, Torterra & possibly Meganium; it just lacks something for me, I mean don't get me wrong; It's speed is great I just feel it deserved so much better... Agree, Disagree? I wanna know your thoughts!!

 

[El_]

Emboar and Samurott also deserve better, not just Serperior.

Serperior is fine with Contrary, all it really needs is a much better move pool to be honest.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

I'm with El_, Serperior just needs a better movepool since he's already got decent boost moves (Sword Dance and Coil for physical, and Leaf Storm for Contrary).

 

[Envoy]

Comparing their stat distributions, yes, Serperior drew the short stick. It's most comparable to Meganium as a defensive Pokemon and to Sceptile as a speedy one. Meganium beats it in everything but speed, with a lower BST no less. Sceptile has better Speed, Attack and Special Attack, everything it needs to sweep. Serperior only beats Venusaur in Defense and Speed and Torterra in Special Defense and Speed.

Yes, Serperior could use a better Stat spread (so could Emboar and Samurott for that matter,) but with Contrary as a saving grace, it's not so bad. I agree with the others that what it's really lacking in is a better movepool. It doesn't even have reliable recovery for crying out loud, and don't get me started with it's coverage.

At least it has decent support options in the form of Leech Seed, Substitute, Screens, Glare and Dragon Tail, which is something.

 

[jokool]

I actually think that Serperior has good stats. I'm most disappointed in Samurott's stats. I read somewhere that it was the most balanced stat-wise, but mine has horrible defensive stats.

 

[El_]

I actually think that Serperior has good stats. I'm most disappointed in Samurott's stats. I read somewhere that it was the most balanced stat-wise, but mine has horrible defensive stats.

Yeah, Samurott and its evolutions are in the middle stat wise compared to Emboar & Serperior. Emboar's highest stats are Serperior's lowest and vice versa. Overall though, I think that GF purposely made the Unova starters weaker in comparison to the past starters, BST and all.

I think that Serperior is actually the winner out of the 3 due to its ability Contrary alone though, and his defenses means that hes not much of a glass canon. What they should have done with the other starters though IMO:

Spoiler

Emboar

HP 110
Attack 123
Sp Attack 65
Defense 65
Sp Defense 65
Speed 100

A little speed goes a long ways with Emboar. Combined with Reckless and a movepool that includes Close Combat or Submission for powerful and reliable fighting stab. No Emboar ever uses Special attack and the stat is better utilized in speed.

Samurott

HP 95
Attack 108
Defense 70
Sp Attack 70
Sp Defense 85
Speed 100

This is how Samurott's spread SHOULD have been. His main strength lies in Sword's Dance/Megahorn/Waterfall or Aqua Jet, so a pure physical attacker is the best way to go and he is no longer generic. Switched his Defense around with his Sp Defense so he can take special hits better.

So, as we can see its not really Serperior that needs a better stat spread. I am starting to wish that Serperior were part dragon though, at least for an expanded movepool. Just imagine Draco Meteors with Contrary.... now breath.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Yeah, Samurott and its evolutions are in the middle stat wise compared to Emboar & Serperior. Emboar's highest stats are Serperior's lowest and vice versa. Overall though, I think that GF purposely made the Unova starters weaker in comparison to the past starters, BST and all.

But I was told by one of my friends, when I was avoiding BW spoilers, that Unova's Pokemon were nothing but complete powerhouses, even the weakest ones such as the early rodent Pokemon, which means Watchog should've been stronger than the past regional rodents.

Spoiler

Emboar

HP 110
Attack 123
Sp Attack 65
Defense 65
Sp Defense 65
Speed 100

A little speed goes a long ways with Emboar. Combined with Reckless and a movepool that includes Close Combat or Submission for powerful and reliable fighting stab. No Emboar ever uses Special attack and the stat is better utilized in speed.

Samurott

HP 95
Attack 108
Defense 70
Sp Attack 70
Sp Defense 85
Speed 100

This is how Samurott's spread SHOULD have been. His main strength lies in Sword's Dance/Megahorn/Waterfall or Aqua Jet, so a pure physical attacker is the best way to go and he is no longer generic. Switched his Defense around with his Sp Defense so he can take special hits better.

I was thinking Emboar and Samurott sharing the same stat distributions like Charizard and Blastoise in Gen 1 and Typholsion and Feraligatr in Gen 2 if they wanted BW to be a complete reboot, so I imagine Emboar's stats to be more like this:

Spoiler

HP - 100
Attk - 108
Def - 70
SpA - 85
SpD - 95
Spe - 70

 

[Articwolf10]

All Serperior needs is a better move-pool... He has so many great Stat Boosting moves (SwordsDance, CalmMind,Growth and Coil) making him a pretty good Tank Plus he has Contrary whic.h is a fantastic ability.All he needs is more coverage he's already the most solid statwise out of the group and he has stat-upmoves to boast his lacking attack...

 

[Envoy]

Yeah, Samurott and its evolutions are in the middle stat wise compared to Emboar & Serperior. Emboar's highest stats are Serperior's lowest and vice versa. Overall though, I think that GF purposely made the Unova starters weaker in comparison to the past starters, BST and all.

I think that Serperior is actually the winner out of the 3 due to its ability Contrary alone though, and his defenses means that hes not much of a glass canon. What they should have done with the other starters though IMO:

Spoiler

Emboar

HP 110
Attack 123
Sp Attack 65
Defense 65
Sp Defense 65
Speed 100

A little speed goes a long ways with Emboar. Combined with Reckless and a movepool that includes Close Combat or Submission for powerful and reliable fighting stab. No Emboar ever uses Special attack and the stat is better utilized in speed.

Samurott

HP 95
Attack 108
Defense 70
Sp Attack 70
Sp Defense 85
Speed 100

This is how Samurott's spread SHOULD have been. His main strength lies in Sword's Dance/Megahorn/Waterfall or Aqua Jet, so a pure physical attacker is the best way to go and he is no longer generic. Switched his Defense around with his Sp Defense so he can take special hits better.

So, as we can see its not really Serperior that needs a better stat spread. I am starting to wish that Serperior were part dragon though, at least for an expanded movepool. Just imagine Draco Meteors with Contrary.... now breath.

With that spread, Emboar and Samurott would play pretty much the same, not to mention that Emboar doesn't look that fast. If he gets 100 Spe, then I demand that Torterra, Swampert and Empoleon also get 100 Spe.

Nah, I think Emboar should have been the bulky one, Samurott the offensive one, and Serperior the balanced one.

 

[Articwolf10]

With that spread, Emboar and Samurott would play pretty much the same, not to mention that Emboar doesn't look that fast. If he gets 100 Spe, then I demand that Torterra, Swampert and Empoleon also get 100 Spe.

Nah, I think Emboar should have been the bulky one, Samurott the offensive one, and Serperior the balanced one.

technically Serperior is the most balenced statwise... Fantastic Speed and excellent defensive stats his only real flaws are hs lackluster Attack and SAttack... but that can be fixed with one of his Stat up moves... and with Coil and CalmMind he can get a Offensie and a Defensive buff...

 

[Envoy]

technically Serperior is the most balenced statwise... Fantastic Speed and excellent defensive stats his only real flaws are hs lackluster Attack and SAttack... but that can be fixed with one of his Stat up moves... and with Coil and CalmMind he can get a Offensie and a Defensive buff...

Well, I wouldn't call its defensive stats 'excellent' under any circumstances this Generation. Due to the power creep and it's defensive stats literally being lower than Meganium's, Serperior actually has a mediocre defensive presence. If it had been introduced last Gen, I think it's defensive spread would have been much more beneficial and exploitable. Alas, it wasn't and they're not.

Serperior's not bad, there's just not much to write home about. The same applies to Samurott and Emboar.

I do agree though, that Serperior is the most balanced of the three.

 

[Jolty94]

Wow, great replies! I love this Forum xD aha, sorry for the forwardness, it's that I just joined aha
And yeah I don't know... I just mean in comparison with past generations I just feel it lacks stats (lightly) and a good move pool... but I can agree on the good stat boosting moves.

 

[Articwolf10]

Well, I wouldn't call its defensive stats 'excellent' under any circumstances this Generation. Due to the power creep and it's defensive stats literally being lower than Meganium's, Serperior actually has a mediocre defensive presence. If it had been introduced last Gen, I think it's defensive spread would have been much more beneficial and exploitable. Alas, it wasn't and they're not.

Serperior's not bad, there's just not much to write home about. The same applies to Samurott and Emboar.

I do agree though, that Serperior is the most balanced of the three.

75/95/95 is pretty good in my book and He gets a lot of stat-up moves to raise his stats... he's might not be as great a tank as Ferrothorn but he's still a good tank. All Serperior really needs is more coverage he's the most versitile out of the 3 he can be a P-Wall a S-Wall a P-Sweeper with Coil and a S-Sweeper with either Calm Mind or Contrary. He can even go mixed with Growth...

He might be the 2nd or 3rd best Grass Starter period (behind Venusaur) He's a lot more versitile then Meganium (Her 80/100/100 is only 5 points ahead of Serperior's 75/95/95.) HE can do pretty much everything she can do except for being a cleric. Plus Meganium doesn't have Leach-Seed or Growth the only Stat-up move she gets is Swords Dance...

And HE also lacks Torterra's 4x weakness to Ice and he's more balenced as a whole though Torterra has more coverage due to his dual typing. but he's way faster and could probibly OHKO him with HP-Ice after a CM or 2.

And Sceptile and him are pretty even as well Sceptile has better coverage but his stats lack focus and 70/65/85 is not a very good defense standing and his attack and S-Attack is pretty lopsided... Though his attack is still higher then Serperior's but Serpy could possibly be able to stall Sceptile while he raised his stats and hit him with either an AA with Coil or HP Ice if he uses CM

Serperior has a pretty good stat spread not fantastic but all around solid. I honestly think if he were to get some more coverage he might have a place in OU without Contrary

 

[winstein]

One interesting even Snivy I saw on Bulbapedia has two moves that Snivy cannot normally learn: Synthesis and Aromatherapy. I am throwing these here because it's entirely possible that those moves will be added as extra moves that Snivy can learn next time.

Anyway, Serperior's stat spread is definitely the quirkiest. I kind of like it because a defensive Pokemon who also happens to be speedy specialises in status moves, so really, the only thing Serperior needs is a better movepool, especially recovery and more high powered and stat-lowering moves like Superpower. It's a wild guess, but it would be neat if Serperior can learn Rapid Spin too.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Envoy]

75/95/95 is pretty good in my book and He gets a lot of stat-up moves to raise his stats... he's might not be as great a tank as Ferrothorn but he's still a good tank. All Serperior really needs is more coverage he's the most versitile out of the 3 he can be a P-Wall a S-Wall a P-Sweeper with Coil and a S-Sweeper with either Calm Mind or Contrary. He can even go mixed with Growth...

He might be the 2nd or 3rd best Grass Starter period (behind Venusaur) He's a lot more versitile then Meganium (Her 80/100/100 is only 5 points ahead of Serperior's 75/95/95.) HE can do pretty much everything she can do except for being a cleric. Plus Meganium doesn't have Leach-Seed or Growth the only Stat-up move she gets is Swords Dance...

And HE also lacks Torterra's 4x weakness to Ice and he's more balenced as a whole though Torterra has more coverage due to his dual typing. but he's way faster and could probibly OHKO him with HP-Ice after a CM or 2.

And Sceptile and him are pretty even as well Sceptile has better coverage but his stats lack focus and 70/65/85 is not a very good defense standing and his attack and S-Attack is pretty lopsided... Though his attack is still higher then Serperior's but Serpy could possibly be able to stall Sceptile while he raised his stats and hit him with either an AA with Coil or HP Ice if he uses CM

Serperior has a pretty good stat spread not fantastic but all around solid. I honestly think if he were to get some more coverage he might have a place in OU without Contrary

Quick note, Meganium gets Leech Seed via breeding and she has Synthesis, a reliable recovery move. Every wall desires one of those and Serperior lacks it.

Anyway, I'm not here to discuss which Starter would beat which. If you want to discuss how each of the Grass Starters fare against each other or how they stack up in the current meta, feel free to PM/VM me and we'll chat. For now, lets focus solely on Serperior.

Anyway, Last Gen, 75/95/95 would have been a terrific defensive spread, much like Sceptile's 85/105/120 was a fantastic offensive one, but this Gen, with the notorious power creep that left even Sceptile behind in the dust, those defenses just aren't going to cut it. Without Contrary but with a better movepool, the best I can see Serperior doing is high RU/low UU. Definitely not OU material.

Hell, Venusaur itself wouldn't be OU material without the triple saving grace it got in the form of the boosted Growth, Chlorophyll and Drought Ninetales.

One interesting even Snivy I saw on Bulbapedia has two moves that Snivy cannot normally learn: Synthesis and Aromatherapy. I am throwing these here because it's entirely possible that those moves will be added as extra moves that Snivy can learn next time.

I seriously hope not. Right now, Synthesis and Aromatherapy are the only two things Meganium has over Serperior. If you give it those moves, then Meganium is fully 100% outclassed and obsolete, and I really don't want that to happen to one of my favorite Pokemon. I like Serperior a lot, and I want it to improve, but not at Meganium's expense.

The only way I'd be okay with that would be if they gave Meganium access to Wish, Baton Pass and Quiver Dance/Dragon Dance so that it could carve a new niche for itself.

 

[Articwolf10]

Quick note, Meganium gets Leech Seed via breeding and she has Synthesis, a reliable recovery move. Every wall desires one of those and Serperior lacks it.

Anyway, I'm not here to discuss which Starter would beat which. If you want to discuss how each of the Grass Starters fare against each other or how they stack up in the current meta, feel free to PM/VM me and we'll chat. For now, lets focus solely on Serperior.

Anyway, Last Gen, 75/95/95 would have been a terrific defensive spread, much like Sceptile's 85/105/120 was a fantastic offensive one, but this Gen, with the notorious power creep that left even Sceptile behind in the dust, those defenses just aren't going to cut it. Without Contrary but with a better movepool, the best I can see Serperior doing is high RU/low UU. Definitely not OU material.

Hell, Venusaur itself wouldn't be OU material without the triple saving grace it got in the form of the boosted Growth, Chlorophyll and Drought Ninetales.

Still 75/95/95 is solid and His base 113 speed is good as well... Meganium might have a reliable recovery move but she still is stuck with her middling offensive stats and SD isn't that good on her... Though poor thing is already the worst Starter over-all (at least in my (and according to the Worst Starter poll a lot of people's) Opinion...) Serperior can do the screanes just as good as she can plus he can mix it up with the right stat-uo move he's pretty versitile and if he did get more coverage maybe he could do well in BL/UU he might not have a terrific defensive base but he's still soid and usable.

 

[Envoy]

Still 75/95/95 is solid and His base 113 speed is good as well... Meganium might have a reliable recovery move but she still is stuck with her middling offensive stats and SW isn't that good on her... Though poor thing is already the worst Starter over-all (at least in my (and according to the Worst Starter poll a lot of people's) Opinion...) Serperior can do the screanes just as good as she can plus he can mix it up with the right stat-uo move he's pretty versitile and if he did get more coverage maybe he could do well in BL/UU he might not have a terrific defensive base but he's still soid and usable.

Again, I'm not gonna argue the merits of Meganium vs Serperior (or any other Starter) in this thread. PM me to talk about that.

I never said Serperior is a bad Pokemon (though it is NU right now, along with Meganium, Torterra and it's BW Starter bretheren,) it just can't catch up with some of the more potent threats of the metagame, particularly in OU.

In the NU tier, where it resides, it has to worry about Swellow, Magmortar and Shell Smash Gorebyss (who will outspeed after a boost and often carry Ice Beam.) NU isn't very kind to Grass types not named Exeggutor right now. The best Serperior can do is to work with Gorebyss to set up screens.

RU is a tier where the likes of Charizard, Typhlosion and Entei run rampant. Not very welcoming for Serperior right now. Furthermore, with Sceptile (and its better offensive movepool) available in the tier, Serperior is kind of outclassed.

UU has Heracross, Darmanitan and Chandelure in the top 20, not to mention Serperior would have to compete with other Grass types like Roserade (the current #1) for a slot. That's a definite upward hill to climb.

OU is just not an option for Serperior right now. If you can't compliment/counter Volt-Turn or benefit from Weather, you have no place in OU at the moment. Top threats like Ferrothorn, Scizor and Dragonite can completely wall it. When it's not dealing with the top threats, it has to take heat from the three weathers of OU, all of which are detrimental to it (even sun, the quintessential Grass weather, just guarantees it gets KO'd by a Fire move and nothing else.) Then there's the issue that what it currently brings to a team (Subseeding, Screen support) is either outpeformed by a better Pokemon or doesn't provide enough benefits to be considered on most teams in OU.

Serperior has no business in Uber.

It's not that Serperior is a bad Pokemon, when analyzed individually, it's obviously quite solid and when Contrary gets released, it'll be a major powerhouse, but the metagame is just not being kind to it right now. Everything Serperior despises is what's popular and as such, it just can't keep up.

A better stat spread and a wider variety of moves (if only support moves) would go a long way to remedying it's shortcomings (of course, this could be said for pretty much any Pokemon but I digress,) but alas, that crappy movepool and decent but not gamebreaking stats is what we have to deal with for now.

 

[Articwolf10]

Again, I'm not gonna argue the merits of Meganium vs Serperior (or any other Starter) in this thread. PM me to talk about that.

I never said Serperior is a bad Pokemon (though it is NU right now, along with Meganium, Torterra and it's BW Starter bretheren,) it just can't catch up with some of the more potent threats of the metagame, particularly in OU.

In the NU tier, where it resides, it has to worry about Swellow, Magmortar and Shell Smash Gorebyss (who will outspeed after a boost and often carry Ice Beam.) NU isn't very kind to Grass types not named Exeggutor right now. The best Serperior can do is to work with Gorebyss to set up screens.

RU is a tier where the likes of Charizard, Typhlosion and Entei run rampant. Not very welcoming for Serperior right now. Furthermore, with Sceptile (and its better offensive movepool) available in the tier, Serperior is kind of outclassed.

UU has Heracross, Darmanitan and Chandelure in the top 20, not to mention Serperior would have to compete with other Grass types like Roserade (the current #1) for a slot. That's a definite upward hill to climb.

OU is just not an option for Serperior right now. If you can't compliment/counter Volt-Turn or benefit from Weather, you have no place in OU at the moment. Top threats like Ferrothorn, Scizor and Dragonite can completely wall it. When it's not dealing with the top threats, it has to take heat from the three weathers of OU, all of which are detrimental to it (even sun, the quintessential Grass weather, just guarantees it gets KO'd by a Fire move and nothing else.) Then there's the issue that what it currently brings to a team (Subseeding, Screen support) is either outpeformed by a better Pokemon or doesn't provide enough benefits to be considered on most teams in OU.

Serperior has no business in Uber.

It's not that Serperior is a bad Pokemon, when analyzed individually, it's obviously quite solid and when Contrary gets released, it'll be a major powerhouse, but the metagame is just not being kind to it right now. Everything Serperior despises is what's popular and as such, it just can't keep up.

A better stat spread and a wider variety of moves (if only support moves) would go a long way to remedying it's shortcomings (of course, this could be said for pretty much any Pokemon but I digress,) but alas, that crappy movepool and decent but not gamebreaking stats is what we have to deal with for now.

Yeah his offensive move-poll needs work maybe i twill get some good moves when the Move-Tutors are introduced... he really needs EQ it makes no sense that he doesn't get it... Tat at least could handle some of the Fire types... and a Rock and Electric move as well but definitly EQ it'd do wonders for the guy and maybe he could move up to UU

 

[Lord Clowncrete]

Yeah his offensive move-poll needs work maybe i twill get some good moves when the Move-Tutors are introduced... he really needs EQ it makes no sense that he doesn't get it... Tat at least could handle some of the Fire types... and a Rock and Electric move as well but definitly EQ it'd do wonders for the guy and maybe he could move up to UU

Serperior isn't going to move upto UU even with earthquake. its attack is pretty bad even after a swords dance. And it will get walled by almost any fluying type. Unless it gets draco meteor which seems unlikely, I don't see anyway this guy will ever come out of NU.

 

[Articwolf10]

Serperior isn't going to move upto UU even with earthquake. its attack is pretty bad even after a swords dance. And it will get walled by almost any fluying type. Unless it gets draco meteor which seems unlikely, I don't see anyway this guy will ever come out of NU.

Give him EQ, Rockslide and T-Bolt and maybe X-Scizor that should handle the Flying and Fire types... and I say Coil would be more useable 3 Stat buff's in one move is awesome...